The elephant in the room - Airfix 1:72 Shack MR2

[TonyOD]

On 2/12/2021 at 5:33 PM, alhenderson said:

I have absolutely no idea where its going to go when I'm finished.

 

I feel your pain. I'm about to go from the smallest build I've ever done to the biggest and I've no idea where I'm going to put a model with a wingspan of 54cm!

 

I'm going to follow this if I may, I have a hankering to do a Shackleton and was leaning towards the Revell MR.3 but these Airfix kits do look very nice. I too have a soft spot for the Shack, I remember them featuring on Blue Peter when I was a kid - 8 Squadron at RAF Lossiemouth IIRC, I seem to recall Blue Peter viewers picking a name for their squadron mascot which was an owl.

[alhenderson]

32 minutes ago, TonyOD said:

 

I feel your pain. I'm about to go from the smallest build I've ever done to the biggest and I've no idea where I'm going to put a model with a wingspan of 54cm!

 

I'm going to follow this if I may, I have a hankering to do a Shackleton and was leaning towards the Revell MR.3 but these Airfix kits do look very nice. I too have a soft spot for the Shack, I remember them featuring on Blue Peter when I was a kid - 8 Squadron at RAF Lossiemouth IIRC, I seem to recall Blue Peter viewers picking a name for their squadron mascot which was an owl.

That's a lovely little Alouette project you've got going on there - liking the history of the machine.  The Airfix kit does seem pretty good, but as I think I mentioned earlier up the thread - there are no rivet details, which there are on the Revell kit.  Although I only noticed when someone pointed it out elsewhere so shows how much of a problem it actually is 🤣

 

Al.

[TonyOD]

Just now, alhenderson said:

I only noticed when someone pointed it out

Always the way...😁

[alhenderson]

Not a lot to report progress-wise on this.  I have assembled the engines.  Getting the angles of the u/c bay components right was a challenge, Airfix have you put it all together and then fit into the engine cowlings.  But if you get something slightly wrong when assembling the bays they won't fit into the cowlings.  I ended up assembling the bays into one side of the engine - lots of test fits and sanding and that worked out pretty well.  The joins on the engines need some work, though.  So yet more filling and sanding - yay!  

 

 

Think I'll be putting some primer down soon to see where I am with the seams.  Most of them seem smooth when I run my fingernail over them, so fingers crossed..  My next dilemma is which primer to use.  I need to use the white primer on the roof so I can get a decent finish there.  I think that means I'll need to use it all over as I don't want to use grey primer on the wings and have the dark grey on the wings end up looking different to that on the fuselage.  Maybe I'm worrying over nothing - a few coats of the stuff and the colour of the primer might not matter..

 

With a long Easter weekend upon us I might get more done on this.  The again, domestic jobs may take priority.  And with lockdown starting to ease I might be losing more potential modelling time.  Don't get me wrong, it'll be nice to get out and see people again, but part of me has enjoyed having to stay in the house.  Funny old world... 🙂 

 

Al.

 

Al.

[Steve Coombs]

I got the undercarriage bays to fit in the nacelles well enough on my current build, but the fit into the wing was indifferent to say the least. For the next MR2 I build (yes, I have another in the stash), I will attach the nacelles containing the undercarriage to the lower wing halves before attaching the uppers. That'd give me a better fit, particularly at the rear of the nacelles, and I can then sand away any excess at the top of the undercarriage bay as appropriate. My first attempt had a pretty nasty step where the top of the wing merges into the nacelle.

[stever219]

On 3/24/2021 at 4:16 PM, alhenderson said:

The Airfix kit does seem pretty good, but as I think I mentioned earlier up the thread - there are no rivet details, which there are on the Revell kit.  Although I only noticed when someone pointed it out elsewhere so shows how much of a problem it actually is 🤣

 

Al.

I've been lucky enough to get up close and personal with MR. 3 WR977 at Newark Air Museum on several occasions and on most of the airframe the rivets aren't that obvious.  Although well maintained she's been parked outside for over 40 years but the rivet heads don't really show.  I suspect that they'd be more obvious dependent on quality/newness/glossiness of finish and lighting conditions. 

If anyone out there has fallen out of love with their Airfix Shackleton over lack of rivets I can find a loving home for them.........😉😉

[alhenderson]

Long Easter weekend here in the UK.  I took an extra 2 days leave giving me 6 days off.  I think in that time I've managed about an hour on the Shack!  Part of that is due to the problem I'm having getting the engines into the wings.  The inboards are proving especially problematic:

 

 

Can't for the life of me get rid of that step at the front of the wing.  Have been sanding the top side of the u/c bay like a mad man thinking that was stopping the engine from sitting deep enough in the wing.  The assembly of the u/c bay was not the best so that seemed to make sense, but the fit doesn't seem to be improving as I sand so I'm now not sure.  Should have done a load more dry fitting before I put the wings together 😞  Guess these are similar to the problems that @Steve Coombs mentioned in his post further up.

 

I'm getting very close to just gluing the engine in and making the best of what's left...

 

Al.

 

[stever219]

@alhenderson make sure you’ve got no mould seam lines around the leading edge joints; I had to do a fair bit of sanding and filing around there to get a decent fit, as well as around the tops of the wheel bays.  The tail fairings of the inboard nacelles also benefit from some attention with your favourite abrasives.

[alhenderson]

11 hours ago, stever219 said:

@alhenderson make sure you’ve got no mould seam lines around the leading edge joints; I had to do a fair bit of sanding and filing around there to get a decent fit, as well as around the tops of the wheel bays.  The tail fairings of the inboard nacelles also benefit from some attention with your favourite abrasives.

Thanks for that hint - there was nothing obvious around the front join between the wing and the nacelle, but some sanding in and around that area has actually improved the fit 🙂 The trailing edge is not as snug as it might be but that's easier to address with putty/filler.  Now to try the same with the second engine..

 

Al.

[perdu]

12 hours ago, stever219 said:

@alhenderson make sure you’ve got no mould seam lines around the leading edge joints; I had to do a fair bit of sanding and filing around there to get a decent fit, as well as around the tops of the wheel bays.  The tail fairings of the inboard nacelles also benefit from some attention with your favourite abrasives.

 

Now although stever is sight about proper modelling  techniques of course do not forget that the leading edges of the wings are made of wood which lets anti-icing fluid pump out of zillions of holes in icing conditions.

 

 

This is the Shackleton Preservation Trust aircraft at Coventry, not obviously very rivetty is she?

 

I can see the diff awkward fit you are having and very obviously dealing with nicely.

 

Coming along nicely.

 

 

 

[Steve Coombs]

Hi Al,

If you haven't already glued the nacelle in place, perhaps you could put a little spreader inside the wing just outboard of the nacelle and just below the step. If nothing else, this will test the quality of your leading edge bond!

I suspect the snag here is that the wing is basically hollow; the mating surfaces are at the leading and trailing edges, and this gives the central part a fair bit of flex. This in turn means the tight fit of the nacelle depresses it a touch, and this is where the gaps and steps come in.

This is now where I confess to multiple attempts at building an MR2. On my first attempt I made a complete mess of the transparencies, which killed the build for me.

This gave me a spare set of wings! I have just tried the idea of attaching the nacelle to the lower wing first and it works well under certain conditions. By doing this, you need to sand off the leading edge curve of the undercarriage bay assembly to a straight edge (so it doesn't contact the upper wing), and sand down the top of the undercarriage bay to the level of the side pieces and a little bit more just for luck. Tight design tolerances there... Then the top of the wing fits nicely, with just the slightest ridge at the area where it meets the nacelle. Then it's up to you whether to sand it level or fair it in with a smidgeon of filler. By the way, the rear of the nacelle is also a superior fit.

Sanding away the leading edge curve of the undercarriage bay looks to be a good idea in any case because that appears to be the major contributor to the step.

Ah, the joys of hindsight.

[ColinChipmunkfan]

Having just bought an Airfix Shackleton MR2 I am following this with great interest a growing sense of unease.

Good luck Al.

Colin

[Steve Coombs]

Hi ColinChipmunkfan,

The kit itself is very nice, but it is designed to very tight tolerances, as is becoming evident in this thread. And whoever designed the frame at the top of the bomb aimer's window as a butt join needs a stiff word with themself.

Don't let this put you off. If nothing else, it reinforces the modeller's rule of test-fitting before committing.

[alhenderson]

@ColinChipmunkfan - wot he said ^^^^^  This is a nice kit of a very nice aeroplane but the fit is tight.  I knew that when I started, hence I was quite obsessive with dry fitting when I put the fuselage together.  However, as soon as I moved on to other parts I forgot about that and didn't do nearly as much.  I didn't even think to dry fit the engines and the wings - I glued the wings together a couple of weeks back cos I was fed up of sanding and wanted to do something that would show progress - oops!!  

 

I'm still confident that I'll get a respectable looking plane out of this thing (hope I haven't jinxed it now!).  This is the biggest thing I've built in decades so there's a steep learning curve going on here..  But if I can do it, then I'm fairly sure anyone else who's on here can as well 👍

 

Al.

[alhenderson]

1 hour ago, Steve Coombs said:

Hi Al,

If you haven't already glued the nacelle in place, perhaps you could put a little spreader inside the wing just outboard of the nacelle and just below the step. If nothing else, this will test the quality of your leading edge bond!

I suspect the snag here is that the wing is basically hollow; the mating surfaces are at the leading and trailing edges, and this gives the central part a fair bit of flex. This in turn means the tight fit of the nacelle depresses it a touch, and this is where the gaps and steps come in.

This is now where I confess to multiple attempts at building an MR2. On my first attempt I made a complete mess of the transparencies, which killed the build for me.

This gave me a spare set of wings! I have just tried the idea of attaching the nacelle to the lower wing first and it works well under certain conditions. By doing this, you need to sand off the leading edge curve of the undercarriage bay assembly to a straight edge (so it doesn't contact the upper wing), and sand down the top of the undercarriage bay to the level of the side pieces and a little bit more just for luck. Tight design tolerances there... Then the top of the wing fits nicely, with just the slightest ridge at the area where it meets the nacelle. Then it's up to you whether to sand it level or fair it in with a smidgeon of filler. By the way, the rear of the nacelle is also a superior fit.

Sanding away the leading edge curve of the undercarriage bay looks to be a good idea in any case because that appears to be the major contributor to the step.

Ah, the joys of hindsight.

I might try that idea of the spreader to get an even better fit on the other inboard engine.  You are correct, the fit of the nacelle into the hole in the wing is very tight, which I guess must have an impact on the way that the underneath skin of the wing lies.  Its like playing 3D chess, this!!

 

Al.

[AliGauld]

2 hours ago, alhenderson said:

(hope I haven't jinxed it now!)

You won't have jinxed it.

You'll get there and at some point soon it will start coming together.

Looking good so far.

 

Cheers,

Alistair

[alhenderson]

Quick update.  The engines are all on, got the inner ones on last week following the advice on here.  Put a spreader inside the wing for the second engine which, along with sanding around the front of the join, really helped the fit.  Still a fair bit of filling and sanding needed, but we're getting there.  Decided it was time to put some primer on the fuselage to see how those seams have turned out.  The bottom seam is OK, I now need to spray the top.  Which, of course, means I need to cover the cockpit, bomb aimers position etc.  Rather than get a whole load of blu tack or tape I figured the transparencies themselves would be best to cover these.  Which, in turn, leads onto thoughts of how to mask them.  In the past I've tended to just go freehand with canopies as I found trying to mask with tape more fiddly and frustrating then just painting.  However, that's not an option when I want spray primer - and is a lot harder to do on a cockpit of this size.

 

Turning to twitter (finally - a positive use for it!) I got a couple of hints.  Lay down some tape and use a toothpick to go round the edges and then a sharp knife to cut out the bits that need painting.  An even more intriguing idea was to use the foil from chocolate ball wrappers which has a sticky back and do something similar.  Have tried both in the last couple of days, and the foil is definitely my favourite so far (plus I had to go out and get some choccies 😋).

 

 

 

Still got a few panels to do on the cockpit, was starting to go cross eyed so had to stop.  But really liking how this has worked, just hope it does the job when the time comes to remove the masks 🤞 I just wonder who was first to look at the chocolate wrapper and decide they could remove the foil and use it in this way!  More enquiring minds than mine, that's for sure 🙂

 

Had a trial fit of the wings.  Will keep these off for as long as I can to prevent any handling mishaps.  Might be one of the last things I do.

 

 

 

Scared myself when I realised how big it was and promptly took them off again! 😂

 

Al.

 

 

 

[heloman1]

Neat ide with the choccie wrappers, I'll need to get the choccie items before I try it. They could similarly be used to redefine canopy framing.

 

Colin

[Mr T]

Just caught up with this thread. I built the Airfix Mk2, but with the Alley Cat conversion to the Mk 1 in 2019. Halfords provided the white and I air brushed the Medium Sea Grey. The major fit problem I had was with the rear bulkhead in the bomb bay that stopped the fuselage closing. Like most modern Airfix kits the fit is unforgiving of any flash or paint on joining surfaces. I don't build big planes very often and they are a challenge to handle in the small space I have to model. Yours is looking really good. 

[alhenderson]

@Mr T thanks! I too had an issue with the rear bulkhead and bomb bay area, probably not helped by me painting a lot of that stuff before assembly, as I'm used to doing.

 

This kit really is a lesson in the merits of continually dry fitting every single piece!

 

Al

[AdrianMF]

The Chocolate wrappers are great! I have a pair of very shiny Airspeed Oxford cowling courtesy of Mr Lindor, and have plans for some other mid 1930s cowlings too.

 

Regards,

Adrian

[alhenderson]

6 hours ago, AdrianMF said:

The Chocolate wrappers are great! I have a pair of very shiny Airspeed Oxford cowling courtesy of Mr Lindor, and have plans for some other mid 1930s cowlings too.

 

Regards,

Adrian

Ah, are you using them as a means of getting a shiny metal finish rather than as a mask? Interesting!!

 

Al

[Mr T]

The use of Kit Kat and cigarette wrapping used to come up in the late sixties in the old Airfix magazine. Cannot remember what was used to stick it down with. 

[Graham Boak]

It wasn't stuck down but rubbed hard to transfer the shiny surface to produce a (most unprototypical in my opinion) bright metallic finish.  Would have looked good on (for example) a prewar Fury cowling but nothing like the duller and multi-tone finish on bare-metal jets.   One such model did win the IMPS UK National Championship, so what do I know?

[AdrianMF]

15 hours ago, alhenderson said:

shiny metal finish

Yep, there’s a couple of pics here if you are interested. It is still stuck down after two years, I just checked!

 

Regards,

Adrian