Beaufort Turrets

[Mi Tasol]

On 2/4/2021 at 4:01 PM, Geoffrey Sinclair said:

Stewart Wilson reports the turret fitted to the Beaufort mark VIII as Bristol B.1 mark V (twin 0.303 inch Browning) in first 380 aircraft or mark VE (twin 0.5 inch Browning) in final 140 aircraft, which means all but 1 of the 1944 production.

I have to say that I believe Stewart to be severely mistaken and possibly mislead by one file at the Australian Archives as well as crew members memories.  That is not said to denigrate his work, which is awesome, but sometimes the memories of 80/90 year old sources is less than perfect.

NAA: MP287/1, 2145
Series number: MP287/1
Control symbol: 2145
Barcode: 477315
Number of pages: 16
Title: Beaufort Project: Development of Twin 5" gun turrets, financial provision for.

 

As far as I know all the last Beauforts were all fitted with the very distinctive Mk VI turret which has two .303 Brownings.  For an example of a Mk VI turret cupola there is one at the Australian War Memorial - all they have is the cupola and even that is incomplete.    http://www.aussiemodeller.com.au/pages/History/Aircraft/Edwards_Beaufort.html photo 12.  In the same photo you can see the extra Vickers GO gun gimbal in the roof.

Having worked, years ago, on Beaufort turrets (and being on the premises with persons currently restoring a Beaufort turret as recent as Feb 1st) I can promise you that there is not enough room for .50 cals in that turret.

As soon as I work out how I will post photos and other graphics of the Mk VI turret with 303s and you will see why I believe it is just not possible to fit 50s.

On my next visit to the Beaufort restoration hangar in June I will get physical dimensions and may sit a dummy 50 cal inside the turret if that is practical.

[Mi Tasol]

On 2/4/2021 at 4:01 PM, Geoffrey Sinclair said:

Stewart Wilson reports the turret fitted to the Beaufort mark VIII as Bristol B.1 mark V (twin 0.303 inch Browning) in first 380 aircraft or mark VE (twin 0.5 inch Browning) in final 140 aircraft, which means all but 1 of the 1944 production.

I have to say that I believe Stewart to be severely mistaken and possibly mislead by one file at the Australian Archives as well as crew members memories.  That is not said to denigrate his work, which is awesome, but sometimes the memories of 80/90 year old sources is less than perfect.

NAA: MP287/1, 2145
Series number: MP287/1
Control symbol: 2145
Barcode: 477315
Number of pages: 16
Title: Beaufort Project: Development of Twin 5" gun turrets, financial provision for.

 

As far as I know all the last Beauforts were all fitted with the very distinctive Mk VI turret which has two .303 Brownings.  For an example of a Mk VI turret cupola there is one at the Australian War Memorial - all they have is the cupola and even that is incomplete.    http://www.aussiemodeller.com.au/pages/History/Aircraft/Edwards_Beaufort.html photo 12.  In the same photo you can see the extra Vickers GO gun gimbal in the roof.  Phil Mead in photos 15 & 16 at http://aussiemodeller.com.au/pages/History/Aircraft/Mead_beaufort-p2.html has internal details of the cupola.  The AWM at  has the exterior

Having worked, years ago, on Beaufort turrets (and being on the premises with persons currently restoring a Beaufort turret as recent as Feb 1st) I can promise you that there is not enough room for .50 cals in that turret.

As soon as I work out how I will post photos and other graphics of the Mk V and VI turret with 303s and you will see why I believe it is just not possible to fit 50s.

On my next visit to the Beaufort restoration hangar in June I will get physical dimensions and may sit a dummy 50 cal inside the turret if the turret is sufficiently assemble to make that practical.

[Mi Tasol]

NOTE - If the moderators think this should be a separate thread they have my permission to separate it out and choose the thread title.

If the moderators want to replace any pictures that reappear with links you have my permission.  I am finding the process frustrating and will walk you through my mistakes

 

Testing photo upload with a photo of a Bristol Mk VI turret data plate.  I have seen and worked on Mk I (single Vickers GO), Mk IE (two GO guns), Mk IV, V and VI.  The last three are basically the same turret with the major differences being in the method of rotation and the cupolas.  I cannot remember which rotation mechanism goes with which turret but will try and sort that out.

Anyhow - if it works - photo 1 link should attach 

 

Yep attached but as a picture - not a link.

 

Need to work on this

Okay - try this link Item copied to your clipboard:
https://cdn01.hobbyphotohost.com/p?i=da9bfb8264d009a1ecf8749d851cdc27

 

That seems to work - as soon as I delete Item copied to your clipboard: it usually posts the picture instead of the link.  Must be finger trouble at my end

 

Here are a few other photos of Mk IV and V turrets

 

Mk IV or V with crewman inside - note how little room there is.

https://cdn01.hobbyphotohost.com/p?i=e0c0391e8633f4abb1382661563b395e

 

Complete turret  Item copied to your clipboard:
https://cdn01.hobbyphotohost.com/p?i=d38facc6252de7f9c25bb77a7e6e1c36

 

Cupola with doors open showing 303 Browning attach fittings Item copied to your clipboard:
https://cdn01.hobbyphotohost.com/p?i=2da1f61c2c81dff62b7a7d1690ffdba6

 

Assorted parts Feb 2021

https://cdn01.hobbyphotohost.com/p?i=0cb42d9d1461747ee368a7706b33ab69

 

Mk IV or V cupola lower half

https://cdn01.hobbyphotohost.com/p?i=24f1f265b3fb2b9edef2ff8388312d26

 

[Mi Tasol]

A good photo of the Mk VI or later turret in the RAAF museum.  Now visualize the much larger guns and where the gunners head sits and further down the ammunition boxes, etc, resized to 50 cal dimensions and what room that leaves for the gunner to sit.  I am sure someone has a quick reference which compares the dimensions and weights of the 303 and 50 cal Brownings.

https://cdn01.hobbyphotohost.com/p?i=83f75031ab157ad96e7b5fa9405f78eb

 

I should have mentioned earlier I have only heard of the Mk VE in Stewarts reference and in one other site that is no known for accuracy.  If it ever existed I would love to see evidence of it.

 

EDIT, Aug 2021 - Stewart is correct.  I now have a copy of the Mk VE/3 turret manual and will post pictures later

Edited August 17, 2021 by Mi Tasol

[Mi Tasol]

Okay - I just found that there is a good drawing for the Mk V turret half way down the page at https://wingcotomjefferson.wordpress.com/blenheim/

From that I can say that the Mk III, IV and V used the same rotation system and the Mk VI used the other rotation system which involves a long cylinder in the rear fuselage and a cable and chain mechanism to do the rotation.

See https://cdn01.hobbyphotohost.com/p?i=0b655ec2bee4a31205fce6ea2b86853e  for a diagram of the Mk III turret with the rotation cylinder arrowed in the lower left corner

[Ed Russell]

This earlier one is in the Moorabbin Air Museum in Melbourne - no room for 0.50 cal in there.

 

[Mi Tasol]

yes - that is a Mk I turret with the single Vickers GO gun

[Mi Tasol]

All the Australian Mk I and IE turrets I ever saw were fitted with Vickers GO (Vickers K) guns.  The gun mounts are totally different.

 

 

Vickers

 

 

Browning

 

You may notice that the pivots for the gun cradle have moved from the front on the Mk I to rear on the Mk III/IV/V/VI.  This is one indication of the difference between the early and late Beaufort turrets - although that is a misnomer because the Blenheim was designed before the Beaufort and the Mk III onward turrets used in the Beauforts were actually Blenheim turrets..

 

This primer on Bristol turrets from a WW2 RAAF training publication may assist understanding differences between the Mk I, IE and III and later turrets.  What is not mentioned is that the Mk I.IE turrets also required the aircraft carry multiple spare Vickers ammo drums in a large dispenser.   

 

One has to presume that the Bristol designers expected the gunner to hold up his hand, WW1 style, and the enemy to stop attacking, like in WW1, while the gunner changed the drum on the single Vickers GO gun on the Mk I turret.

 

 

As far as I can determine the Mk IV turret was the Mk III turret redesigned to take Brownings.  This is not a minor change as ammo boxes, feed chutes etc had to be added and the spent brass collection is totally different.  Also the Vickers does not have belt links to collect.

 

There is also this item on the Mk I turret fitted with Brownings though this says the operating pressure was 1500 psi and both the airframe and turret manual says 800 psi so I can not claim any part of the article is accurate.

http://legendsintheirowntime.com/LiTOT/Content/1943/Av_GB_4304_sk_turret_p187_W.png

[Graham Boak]

I suspect that both gunners and fighter pilots in WW1 would be laughing in their graves at the suggestion of attacks stopping whilst a gunner changed their drums of ammunition.

 

Turret designers will have had to design their turrets to match the available weaponry, which was still predominantly earlier designs largely intended to be manhandled by  gunners in the open air over a wide range of angles.  Guns requiring belt feed, storage and handling would (and did) have required larger heavier installations with a more restricted field of fire.  Such installations would have been beyond the space and weight restrictions of earlier aircraft, and once in production major changes are anathema to production figures.  There are times when the better is the enemy of the acceptable, and it can't be said that the British were not leaders in the field of powered turrets in the late 1930s/early 1940s - with a nod to the successful French turret modified into widespread use as the Boulton Paul A type.

[Mi Tasol]

Eons ago when I was a young fella I had a 1930s book called War in the air which had some excellent full page plates of many of the WW1 pilots and many of their stories.  It even had modern aeroplanes in it like the Hawker Hind!

There were multiple articles on how I survived when I ran out of ammunition by flyers from both sides so it must have been fairly common early on.  Once people like the Red Baron came on the scene I would expect it to have disappeared fairly promptly.

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

On 08/02/2021 at 16:38, Mi Tasol said:

A good photo of the Mk VI or later turret

(snip)

I should have mentioned earlier I have only heard of the Mk VE in Stewarts reference and in one other site that is no known for accuracy.  If it ever existed I would love to see evidence of it.

RAAF Air Member for Engineering and Maintenance report 191 for week ending 22 September 1943,
Resident Technical Officer Report, Beaufort Division,

Blenheim Mk.VI/3 Turret.  Installation of Mk.VE/3 Turret [in Beaufort] is being carried out by Servicing Department and is well in hand.  At present interruption tests are being carried out. [Note the two designations used for the turret.]

 

RAAF Air Member for Engineering and Maintenance report 199 for week ending 17 November 1943,
Directorate of Armament,  Beaufort Aircraft,

The first two mark V E.3 Bristol turrets have been received and fitted to Beaufort Aircraft.  The tolerances for the gun fire interrupter fall within the limits required by this Directorate.  [The date does tie into the idea the later production had the turret, but not the final 140.]

 

Whether Bristol called the turret the same thing is another matter.

 

I wonder if report of 0.5 inch guns in the turret confuses the turret with the 0.5 inch guns put into nose and wing gun installations.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Geoffrey Sinclair
Resident, not regional, T.O.

[Mi Tasol]

Thank you Geoff for that information.  Is it available from the NAA and if so do you have the barcode or other reference numbers.

I am guessing here but given the two designations above, and having seen multiple Mk VI labels on turrets, maybe in production the Mk V E.3 was called Mk VI.

 

Interestingly there is a file at the NAA covering the refitting of 303 guns to the wings in place of the 50 cals.  I cannot find the reference right now but I will post it as soon as I do.

 

I have only seen 303 Vickers GO (Vickers K) guns in the nose of Aus Beauforts so would be very interested in seeing details of 50 cals there as well.

[Ed Russell]

17 minutes ago, Mi Tasol said:

303 Vickers GO (Vickers K) guns in the nose of Aus Beauforts so would be very interested in seeing details of 50 cals there as well.

There is a memo from 10 Feb 1942 requesting the investigation of fitting a 20mm Hispano in place of the twin 0.303s. There is also a picture purporting to show this but it is indistinct.

 

@Mike - this has drifted way off thread and may benefit from being re-titled and re-organised!!!!

[Mike]

16 minutes ago, Ed Russell said:

@Mike - this has drifted way off thread and may benefit from being re-titled and re-organised!!!!

Cor... I don't have a clue which ones belong where, so I could do with some hints.  I can't help being stupid

[Mi Tasol]

Welcome to the club

 

I would suggest with my post of Monday at 12:06 PM.  It then only cuts out the post I referenced and does not cut out much serious Battle discussion.

[Mi Tasol]

As promised below is the reference to refitting the 303's to Aus Beauforts.  The barcode for the file is 1046465

 

 

The only reference I had seen before today on fitting 20mm cannon to the Beaufort was this item - another classic TNAAFU.  If you look at the actual record it says Beaufighter.

 

I would love to see that memo and the indistinct drawing that Ed Russell refers to.  Do you have a link you could post Ed?

 

I wonder seriously about the fitment of 20mm guns in the nose of a Beaufort and the structure in that area is quite light.  There is not a lot of room under the Nav table and the guns and ammo drums would take up probably all of it, or maybe even more.  This would require heavy ballast in the rear fuselage to maintain CofG and would make the Navigators job most difficult as he would have to sit fore and aft and twist his body to use his table.

20mm guns in the wings would be more doable though again, like with the 50s, considerable changes would be needed.

 

50 cals in the nose gimbals would also make the Navs compartment very squeezy.

[Selwyn]

4 hours ago, Mi Tasol said:

As promised below is the reference to refitting the 303's to Aus Beauforts.  The barcode for the file is 1046465

 

 

The only reference I had seen before today on fitting 20mm cannon to the Beaufort was this item - another classic TNAAFU.  If you look at the actual record it says Beaufighter.

 

I would love to see that memo and the indistinct drawing that Ed Russell refers to.  Do you have a link you could post Ed?

 

I wonder seriously about the fitment of 20mm guns in the nose of a Beaufort and the structure in that area is quite light.  There is not a lot of room under the Nav table and the guns and ammo drums would take up probably all of it, or maybe even more.  This would require heavy ballast in the rear fuselage to maintain CofG and would make the Navigators job most difficult as he would have to sit fore and aft and twist his body to use his table.

20mm guns in the wings would be more doable though again, like with the 50s, considerable changes would be needed.

 

50 cals in the nose gimbals would also make the Navs compartment very squeezy.

There was field modification that fitted  20mm cannon in the nose of Blenheims in the western desert, so there is some precedence for this, The structure of he Blenheim and Beaufort noses were quite similar.

 

Selwyn

[Mi Tasol]

Agreed and being that the Blenheim is much more compact than the Beaufort that makes it easier.

Do you know if the modified Blenheim's still carry a navigator?  Or was the nav replaced by a gunner to clear blockages and replace empty magazines?

[Mike]

This thread has been split from the original Fairey Battle thread, which you can still find here.  carry on in this vein, but don't drift into ballet or some other subject though

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

17 hours ago, Mike said:

This thread has been split from the original Fairey Battle thread, which you can still find here.  carry on in this vein, but don't drift into ballet or some other subject though 

Honestly, if Disney can do it with Hippos why can't we do it with Beauforts, or at least Alcohol fortified Beaus? Swan (falling in the) Lake?

 

On 12/02/2021 at 07:18, Mi Tasol said:

Thank you Geoff for that information.  Is it available from the NAA and if so do you have the barcode or other reference numbers.

Series A11252 is all you need.  The Chiefs of Staff reports to (War) Cabinet and associated sub reports.  Weekly 1940 to November 1945 then monthly.   Some have all reports for reporting period together, some group the sub reports, some are in date while others in reverse date order, some out of order, some sub reports missing, control Symbol 6 is Staff conference minutes, as well as 7.  Think of in the region of 15,500 pages ignoring the minutes.  All imaged and available via the Australian Archives site.

On 12/02/2021 at 07:18, Mi Tasol said:

Interestingly there is a file at the NAA covering the refitting of 303 guns to the wings in place of the 50 cals.  I cannot find the reference right now but I will post it as soon as I do.   I have only seen 303 Vickers GO (Vickers K) guns in the nose of Aus Beauforts so would be very interested in seeing details of 50 cals there as well.

Air Member for Equipment and Maintenance, report for week ending.  Some of the Beaufort entries,

 

8 July 1942, Installation of the 0.303 gun in the roof of the Beaufort near the beam guns has been initiated. Fitment of the two flexible 0.303 guns in the nose is proceeding as fast as possible.
15 July 1942, mock up proceeding on Twin nose guns and common negative wiring.
22 July 1942, mock up proceeding on Twin nose guns and common negative wiring. Installation of the G.C. gun in the roof of the Beaufort is almost completed.  It is expected that the aircraft will be ready for flight trials today.
29 July 1942, Design and installation of the G.C. gun firing vertically upwards has been completed.  Same station as beam guns, fitted in a universal joint in the centre of a perspex panel.  Air tested yesterday, very satisfactory, mounting is steady and field of fire good.  Manufacture of modifications sets to begin, drawings to D.A.P. for incorporation into production aircraft.  R.T.O. Beaufort, Mock up on Twin Nose Gun progressing.  0.5 Wing and Nose Gun installation investigations in hand.  Drawings completed by C.A.D. for wing guns.
12 August 1942.  R.T.O. Beaufort. Four twin nose gun installations carried out.  vertical Vickers Gun drawings to be completed in a week.  Mock up of Twin Nose Gun increased field of fire ready for discussion 14.8.42.  Mock up conference will be arranged accordingly.
2 September 1942.  Production of mountings for top gun now in hand.  D.A.P. have completed mock up of a modified turret installation, increased arc of fire in Azimuth up to 300 degrees.  Front flexible gun mountings coming to hand at 6 per week.  100 Sqn are being given priority, none for 7 sqn but torpedo racks being installed.  R.T.O. Beaufort. Mock up of Twin nose guns inspected 2.9.42.
9 September 1942.  R.T.O. Beaufort. 100 Sqn all have nose guns and torpedo installation.
16 September 1942.  First production model with roof gun will be ready for testing next week.
23 September 1942.  R.T.O. Beaufort. 0.5 wing gun installation proceeding and 0.5 nose gun mock up almost completed.
14 October 1942.  First production model upward firing gun installed and inspected by Armament Officers, approved for further production.
4 November 1942.  Design of the upward gun was referred to Bristols and criticised.  D.A.P. altered RAAF design in area to such an extent that is no longer compared in strength.  Design strengthened, ready for test a 1AD.  R.T.O. Beaufort.  Nose Guns: Decision still awaited on the .5 nose guns before work proceeds on the increased field of fire C.G. Guns.
9 December 1942.  Considerable trouble with final painting due to faulty undercoating, so zinc chromate primer will be used as under coat.
23 December 1942.  Repositioning of fuel tank draining cock has been decided upon.  R.T.O. Beaufort delivery of flame dampers expected to be made towards end of month.
30 December 1942.  R.T.O. Beaufort delivery of flame dampers due 18.1.43.
13 January 1943.  R.T.O. Beaufort.  .5 wing gun installation drawings received, parts being made.  .5 nose gun installation drawings completed sufficient for experimental model.
20 January 1943, AMEM report 156 missing from file.
27 January 1943.  R.T.O. Beaufort.  .5 wing gun installation all drawings and parts completed except main casting, due 10.2.43.  .5 nose gun installation all drawings and parts completed except main casting, due 10.2.43.
3 February 1943.  Extra long range fuel tanks, three aircraft being modified by D.A.P., on completed, two more expected by 4.2.43.  R.T.O. Beaufort.  .5 nose gun installation mock up in damaged front fuselage includes 300 rounds for the U/D Gun.
17 February 1943.  Elevator torque tube failures, tests so far, including design, complying with requirements.  R.T.O. Beaufort, .5 wing and nose guns main castings received.  Bristol Turrets. Proposed modifications sent to D.A.P. turret plant, sample turret to be made for trials.
28 February 1943.  Elevator torque tube failures, no apparent cause.  To be tested on special rig plus testing what loads can be applied through the control column.  R.T.O. Beaufort.  Flame dampers made ready for test flights.
4 March 1943.  Special instruction calling for replacement of all rivets in the attachment of the elevator lever to the torque tube.  R.T.O. Beaufort, .5 wing and nose guns testing being done.
10 March 1943.  Elevator torque tube failure.  3/16 inch attachment rivets to be used in all service and production aircraft.  Bolted on sumps for fuel tank water removal satisfactory, to be added to service aircraft, production aircraft will have welded sumps.  R.T.O. Beaufort, .5 wing gun conference anticipated within two weeks. Nose guns testing ceased, one set of main castings received.
17 March 1943.  R.T.O. Beaufort, .5 wing gun preliminary firing tests. .5 Nose guns preliminary firing tests.
24 March 1943.  R.T.O. Beaufort, .5 wing gun firing tests 24.3.43. .5 Nose guns preliminary firing tests.  Flame dampers to be installed in aircraft 201 tomorrow.
31 March 1943.  .5 wing gun, Mainplane to be fitted to an aircraft before further trials.
7 April 1943.  R.T.O. Beaufort, .5 nose gun, extensive redesign of castings and attachments required.
14 April 1943.  Bristol Turrets, several modifications to the Mk. V turret have been accepted and retrospective action will be taken on the introduction of the modification into the service.
21 April 1943.  Air firing tests carried out with Browning replacing Vickers G.O. beam guns.
12 May 1943.  Lack of stowage space prevents replacement of Vickers G.O. by Brownings.  R.T.O. Beaufort.  .5 nose guns, preliminary firing tests on 6th, satisfactory.
19 May 1943.  R.T.O. Beaufort.  .5 Wing gun installation, to commence installation into aircraft on 20th.  .5 Nose gun, modified main castings not to hand.
2 June 1943.  R.T.O. Beaufort.  .5 Wing gun installation, to commence installation into aircraft 97 on 3rd.
16 June 1943.  R.T.O. Beaufort.  .5 Wing gun installation, expected installation completion on 20 June. Test aircraft for cabin heating and KX generator and alternator grounded in order to be fitted with Yagi aerials and .5 nose gun.
23 June 1943.  R.T.O. Beaufort.  .5 Wing gun installation, expected firing trials on 24 June.
30 June 1943.  .5 Wing gun installation, firing trials completed at Point Cook on 29 June.
7 July 1943.  R.T.O. Beaufort.  .5 Wing gun installation, firing trials completed at Point Cook on 1 July.  .5 Nose Gun, modified main castings received.

 

Then reports stop.  Without checking the ones in between there is

 

13 December 1944.  Beaufort Aircraft - Reversion from .5 inch to .303 inch Browning Guns.  Action has been initiated for the manufacture of modification sets.  Target date indefinite.

[Mi Tasol]

Thank you sir - as they say your blood is worth bottling.

 

I will check out that Series A11252 is as soon as I can make time.

 

Re Beaufort.  .5 nose gun installation mock up in damaged front fuselage includes 300 rounds for the U/D Gun.

It would be nice to find some photos of that mockup or better still installation.  I wonder if the .5 guns were fixed internal and firing through the window to the left of the bomb aimers window, fixed external or mounted on gimbals like the Vickers guns.  Hopefully some photos have survived somewhere in the NAA or the NLA. 

Given the UD gun was deleted soon after I am a little surprised at the increase in ammo for that.

[Sydhuey]

Thanks for this thread,  It got me thinking about the .5 turret an realizing I had never seen a picture with one and that it probably doesn't exist , looking at the size of a Beaufort turret 2 x .50's simply wouldn't fit, 2 x .303 Brownings are approx 36" long and are mounter together in front of the gunner , 2 x .50's in a similar mount would be approx 60 " long and just don't fit , the Martin T50 turret fits 2 x.50's and its turret ring is miles too wide for a Beaufort fuselage, the turret on the Grumman Avenger could only fit one .50 to fit the turret ring size and the Canadians of 422 sqn replaced the single VGO in a Sunderland nose turret with a single .50 only because the VGO was offset to the R/H side and a .50 could be squeezed into the space when it is literally mounter beside the gunner not in front of him  .

About the only style of turret that may have been able to be modified to take 2 x .50's would be I believer the B1 Mk X turret as fitted to the Blenheim V , this was a wider turret with the .303 browning mounted either side of the gunner.

Fixed and nose guns are another thing, provision was made for the .50's in the wings and looking at the nose of a Beaufort , 2 x .50's may have been able to be fitted in a very limited movement mount, fixed .50's in the nose may have been a possibility too as 2 x .50's had previously been fitted in Hudson's and as the war went on it was realised .303's were just about useless for strafing jungle.    

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

7 hours ago, Mi Tasol said:

I will check out that Series A11252 is as soon as I can make time.

 

Re Beaufort.  .5 nose gun installation mock up in damaged front fuselage includes 300 rounds for the U/D Gun.

It would be nice to find some photos of that mockup or better still installation. 

I have a Rough index to A11252

 

A705 9/18/228 Twin 0.303 inch nose gun photographs pages 22, 24, 38 and 54.

 

A705 9/18/249 0.5 inch wing guns introduced from A9-541 (or 540), directive of 27 October 1944, replace 0.5 with 0.303. Page 97 A9-621, 0.5 inch front gun.  Page 184 indicates wing guns retrofitted to all Beauforts, and in production before A9-280.

 

A705 69/19/22 page 8, In early 1940 the Australian Prime Minister was part of effort to obtain a pair of twin wasp engines for Bristol to trial fit to a Beaufort.

[Mi Tasol]

Thank you.  I will check those out. 

 

I am currently scanning some DAP docs that the restoration group in Caboolture have so that they have digital copies instead of handling and possibly damaging original and photocopied material and found the following info dated 23 Nov 42.  I do not have the authority to share that info with the public or I would cut and paste it in.

 

A9-1/90 were fitted with imported Mk I turrets (or Power Operated Gun Mountings as they called them).  These were supposedly upgraded to Mk IE standard using an Australian designed mod kit but I have seen multiple Mk I turrets so obviously this is not 100% correct unless they swapped turrets and did not upgrade the removed ones.

A9-91/180 were fitted with Australian made Mk IE turrets.

A9-181 on were fitted with Mk V turrets.

This very strongly suggests that the Mk IV turrets I have seen came from Ansons.

 

There is also a recently added doc at NAA which I have not had time to read yet that may shed more light on the subject

Title Directorate of Armament - Beaufort aircraft - gunnery equipment

Contents range 1939 - 1943

Series number A705

Control symbol 9/18/114 

Access status Open

Item ID 164127

[Mi Tasol]

Opened the above at random and found this so this file could be very enlightening.  Given there are photos of aircraft long after 351 with twin Vickers in the nose I guess that mod was a failure but I would still like to see photos.  Hopefully the are later in the 253 pg file