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Fusion 360 - adding tread to tyres?


bootneck
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Hi Mike,

 

you can do it by creating a the first section of the pattern on the tyre face and extrude to cut into the tyre and then create a circular pattern around the wheel. This tutorial is worth a watch.

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

mark

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Expanding from the above to a less "Tonka-like" tyre that is quite quick to create and looks OK at scale, you can create essentially two sketches. One is a cross-section of the tyre/wheel that will be revolved around the axis. This needs two profiles - one to define the overall cross-sectional shape and another of the cross-section at the bottom of the treads. These two profiles can be revolved to give two separate bodies, "inside" and "outside", forming the wheel+inside part of the tyre and a  "slick" tread respectively. The second sketch can be drawn normal to the first and contains the tread pattern - best to extend beyond the outside face of the wheel so it cuts nicely. You then extrude this to cut through the slick "outside" tread body and form one tread slot. This can be mirrored or patterned to create the inside/outside tread shape then copied around the wheel with the circular pattern.

 

HTH

 

Tony Andrews

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, FZ6 said:

you can do it by creating a the first section of the pattern on the tyre face and extrude to cut into the tyre and then create a circular pattern around the wheel. This tutorial is worth a watch

Thanks for this Mark.  It was a bit of a struggle, trying to keep track of what Lars was saying interspersed with his answering questions mid-flow, but I managed to get the gist of it.  I did a quick follow along and came up with this.  Now I can fine-tune what I have learned to improve on my wheels.

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Thanks again,

Mike

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Mike:

 

Tony´previous post details the workflow I also use for designing tyres often. But, again, and as you already know, F360 always offers different paths for reaching at the same destination… not saying there are countless tyre treads so there is no single solution for every wheel out there.

 

I recall that the first time I had to design a tyre, and as Mark suggests, also I went to YT and up there I found a couple of videos with different samples that led me to the starting point and gave me some useful hints and tools for job.

 

The rest was a question of deciding which route to take for every particular case. As you already know better than me, practice is the key here but no matter how complex a tyre tread may look, you already know that in F360 this will translate into successive single (and simple) steps.

 

BTW, just out of curiosity, may I ask which one is the tyre you are designing?

 

Regards!

Alvaro

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Hello Alvaro,

 

I hope to be able to draw, and print, two types initially.  The first will be for the AEC Matador refueller and there is a decent image of the tread here.

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The other type will be for a Leyland Hippo postwar aircraft refueller, similar to this one.

 

Mike

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Oh, Matador wheels! I applaud your good taste sir! 

 

Funny enough my first braille scale wheels -I use to design 1/48th AFV bits but I also wanted to discover printing boundaries so I switched to small scale- were the 13.50-20 wheels for the venerable 76th Airfix Matador kit!

 

For the bowser I did not design that specific tyre pattern as per that iconic pic but I went for the Firestones that you may see in other ref pictures often.

 

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If these could be of any help for you just let me know!

 

Regards!

Alvaro

 

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I've designed my first wheel over the last couple of days and am pleased with it. I have a 1:48 Vickers Royal Navy Deck Tractor to go with My Harrier and I noticed that the treads on the kit tyres had no tread so I thought it would be a good opportunity to design some.

 

I created my wheel by drawing a cross section of it and and using the revolve function to create the wheel shape. I then drew a section of the zigzag pattern on an offset plane and extruded it into the tyre to cut the pattern into it. I then used a circular pattern to make it go all the way round the wheel. You have to measure carefully so the pattern will meet up and not overlap. It took several attempts to get it right. due to the number of copies of the pattern Fusion needs to calculate, it took a bit of computing power and a few seconds for it to solve.

 

Hope this is useful

 

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Royal Navy Deck Tractor Wheel 01 by Mark Maclean, on Flickr

 

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Royal Navy Deck Tractor Wheel 02 by Mark Maclean, on Flickr

 

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Royal Navy Deck Tractor Wheel 04 by Mark Maclean, on Flickr

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@Mark, looking good! And based on your comments looks like you are also following the very same workflow than Tony or me... so looks like we are all in the right path then. 

 

I wonder how it will print. Just saying because those tiny hex nuts in the centerhub may have no room enough to be printed and they end melted with the rim but as soon as you printed you will know. The development cycle -from the design to the printed part- uses to require some iterations often so nothing to worry about I would say.

 

@Mike, sure! Just be warned designing wheels and tyres can be adictive and a ton of fun! 

 

Regards!

Alvaro

 

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Hi  @Alvaro Rodriguez thanks for your comments on the wheel, I'll give it a try and see how it works and I'll let you know.

 

How do you orientate your wheels on the print bed when you make them and where do you fit supports? I plan to add supports to the back side of the wheel that won't be seen.

 

As an alternative to the methods above we've tried, this video is quite interesting. It covers the methods we've tried for patterning but also has a neat trick of creating the patterns in the CAM area which is worth investigating at some point.

 

 

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@FZ6 as you already know better than me, orienting the part and placing the supports it´s a discipline by their own and there is no single solution that fits all the cases.

 

I started printing the wheels flat, supported in the back (the sidewall facing the vehicle and the build plate). While this ensures a perfectly circular shape in the wheel always, that requires a true forest of supports and you may have some washed out surface detail in the supported side. I also took that route due the printer performance. I was using a OG Photon then and this orientation gave me the best detail. BTW, when I use to print wheels -or sprockets or the like- paralell to the build plate I designed custom supports in F360 because that was far easier and faster than placing them manually using the slicer.

 

Latter I switched to a mono printer and I changed the printing orientation. Now I use to print the wheels upright. The mono display delivers sharper and more precise prints so changing the orientation has no adverse effect in the prints.

 

Regarding where to place the supports and how many are required for a successful print, it is a matter or practice and this will depend on the wheel details always.

 

There you go a sample of a 48th scale cross country tire that is a nightmare to support with that tyre tread full of those tiny blocks.

 

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I´m pretty sure this could be printed using less supports but I for one thinking that´s better to have one support more than a failed print always.

 

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But your deck tractor wheel is a nice one with that tyre pattern so you have a few more options out there that could require to few to no supports at all.

 

You could desing a base for the wheel. Just a small pedestal you can place the wheel onto.

 

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And then, in the slicer, place the wheel aligned and add the required supports (if any). There you go a 76th scale wheel sample.

 

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Note in the previous sample, the wheel requires no supports at all actually because, like in your desck tractor wheel, the wheel should grow with no issues. But I added those just for ensuring the wheel is well supported when reaching the maximun cross section during the print run.

 

Using this upright orientation, your wheel might -?- require some supports at the lowest point of the center hub for ensuring it is printed with no deformations but, as said, looks to me a charming design to print requiring almost no supports.

 

Regards!

Alvaro

 

 

 

Edited by Alvaro Rodriguez
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Hello Alvaro,

can I ask what print settings you are using for those?   Also, what top support settings are you using?  Sphere size and depth?  I realise that yours are for a 1:72 piece but it might just help me with getting my settings better.

cheers,
Mike

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Hi Mike.

 

My printing settings: 

 

The normal layer height uses to be that one that matches -more or less- the printer XY pixel size. In the OG Photon I used to work with 0.040mm layer height and in the Photon Mono I´m using 0.050mm AS LONG AS the print does not require to use a thinner layer. If that´s the case I use to work with 0.020 or 0.030mm layers. Regarding the bottom layers, four use to be enough for me, no matter the printer.

 

Regarding the rest of the printing settings -exposures, speeds...- that will depend on your printer and resin setup always. I have no issues in sharing those openly but I also think that what works for you may -or may not- work for me and vice-versa. Then, any shared printing settings must be taken as orientative always and the most reliable way to know the best amd more exact printing settings for your printing setup is running an exposure test. No shortcuts here. Those are rather fast print runs and they provide quite reliable info always.

 

That said, and just for the record, I use 1.6sec exposure for the normal layers and 15s for the bottom ones. My speeds are the quite hight default ones for the Photon Mono -4mm/s lift and 6mm/s retract-, I have adjusted the lift distance to just 4mm lately and I´m currently using a 1sec light off delay too.

 

Supports. Please, note that previous print samples it´s not a matter of scale but a matter of size. smaller objects can be supported using small supports while larger ones may require medium or heavy ones often.

 

I use to work with default supports but adding the ball tip always. And, again, I do not use a fixed size for the ball tips. That will depend on the print and on the available area or surface for placing a support. However, I use to ensure the ball is halfway into the model always and that the tip of the conical section of the support is a tad over the half of the ball size. If I´m using a 0.5mm ball, the tip of the cone should be around 0.3mm in example. Note that here is more a matter of proportions between the ball tip and the tip of conical section than a matter of exact sizes for me at least.

 

My apologies if this explanation is not clear enough. I could take some screenshots of my settings for you to see if that helps.

 

Regards!

Alvaro

 

 

 

 

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Hello Alvaro,

that explanation is fine, especially about the support tips.  I might not have my contact tip deep enough and that could be why some supports are detaching during the print.

thanks again,

Mike

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Thanks @Alvaro Rodriguez

 

Your advice on supports and settings will prove really useful so thanks for taking the time to share this. I've already been experimenting with pedestals like the one you mentioned and it makes clean up a bit easier. I'm, going to try a few methods and figure out what works best.

 

Before I print my wheel, I'm going to have to design a new variant because I've noticed the Falkland era tractor I wish to portray has a narrower tyre, different tread pattern and even slightly different wheel rims to the ones I've built. Still, it will be good practice. 😀

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

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Mike, if your print is falling off the support trees I would say that the usual suspect here is one of the following: too weak (thin) supports or too few supports... not saying a combination of both. 

 

In the slicer, and using the slice selectors, doublecheck how your print is growing. At some point the suction force is strong enough for taking the print off the supports. This uses to be when you got the maximun cross section paralell to the builplate.

 

On a side note, and as I have already said before, while I also love to see those prints "ready to use" off the build plate requiring the minimun supports tress I see that many often thats a common cause of failed prints. And that´s why adding one support more -and removing it later- is not an issue for me. Removing supports from the print should never be an issue for a modeller used to remove kit parts from the sprue trees.

 

Mark, the point of the pedestal is not for making the cleaning easier but for providing a solid base for the part. In fact it is easier to remove supports than to remove the pedestal but the pedestal is far easier to place and use than placing a lot of supports in the lowest part of the tyre for ensuring it will print fine. When you are not in the need of a fully detailled (and printed) running band -that could be the case of a spare wheel often- a custom base is quite handy.

 

And into the wheels topic there you go another sample I´ve been printing past days. These are some wheels big enough for making this approach worthy. Printing the tyres upright provides us a fully detailed running band all around while printing the rims in halves and onto the build plate gives us the sharpest surface detail, a must have when you have tiny nuts and bolts in example.

 

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-my apologies for the crappy smartphone pic-

 

The only thing you have to take into consideration here is that you may need to introduce some tolerances in the print for ensuring the wheel can receive the rims but this will depend on the precission of your printer. In this case I had to reduce the diameter of the rims 0.1mm for an almost perfect and very tight fit.

 

Regards!

Alvaro

 

Edited by Alvaro Rodriguez
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello Alvaro,

I'm sorry for not responding sooner but I have been trying to draw the tyres, and wheels, by referring to the youtube video.  I am managing to get the Project function to work but only laterally across the top.  I am extemely impressed with your tyres, especially how the tread depth works around, from lateral to vertical and down the sides.  Would it be possible for you show a "how to do it" sequence please?

 

I am getting to a point with my Matador that I need to get the tyres done.

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All the best,

Mike

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Mike, that bowser is a candy! Excellent!

 

There you go a SBS. You may see that I´ll be working with a half tyre and an elemental tread for simplicity. Notice also this is the workflow that Tony explained in his earlier reply.

 

Here we got the tyre cross section.

 

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Using revolve we create to different bodies.

 

One for the tyre body.

 

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And another for the running band

 

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So simple:

 

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The resulting body is as follows:

 

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And now the running band

 

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simple enough!

 

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Using the previous bodies we have the (half) solid tyre

 

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But we want to mantain them as individual bodies for now because what we are going to cut is the running band only.

 

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We create a construction plane on top of the tyre. 

 

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and then we create a sketch for the tyre tread using that new plane.

 

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As you may already suspect, now we can cut the running band with the tyre tread using extrude.

 

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And with the help of a circular pattern  we can copy the cutout faces as required.

 

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The resulting running band is as follows

 

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And if we now add the tyre body, we are done.

 

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But let´s take a closer look at how the treads are now in the sidewalls, something may look off depending on the tyre you are designing but in most tyres the raised tread uses to be squared and not angled like this.

 

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There is a simple trick just adding a taper angle when using extrude for cutting.

 

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See how the sidewall looks now.

 

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And this is the final product.

 

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These simple steps will help you to do a ton of different tyres, no matter how much complex the tyre tread may look. It´s just a matter of iterating until you have the desired result.

 

As you may see, in this sample we have keept the required steps to a minimun but you can introduce any changes based on your preferences. 

 

In example, you may want to generate a true body for the tread and use the splitting tool for making the cut. If that´s the case, you can also use the draft tool instead of the taper angle in the extrude. There are plenty of paths and options here so adopt what´s best for you always. 

 

Regards!

Alvaro

 

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