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Hurricane PG478, 1690 flight, BDTF fighter/bomber affiliation? unusual paint scheme with dark underside?


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this was posted on Hurricane Appreciation on Farcebook

 

PCookOG1602.2.jpg

 

"Description

Air-to-air view of a Hurricane registration 'PC476' port side. Submitted with caption; “Fighter affiliation over Metheringham 1943 by OG Cook'."

https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/30518

 

My response, 

Interesting image markings wise, the underside look very dark, this maybe the light, but the underwing roundel white shows clearly, and this is a non standard roundel for the time (A type). Also lacks the yellow leading wing edges and Sky spinner of the Day Fighter Scheme, and I suspect the undersides are black. Possibly part of the fighter affiliation, which were with bomber units. 

 

Now, this reminded me of this model

 

Photo052.jpg

"the scheme is from British Aviation Colours of world war two which has in it a copy of Air publication 2656a Vol.1 section 6 para 49 which states that the aircraft should be camouflaged dark green and dark earth

to pattern no2 which is a high demarcation with night undersides, spinners dark earth or dark green and dull red codes."

 

Now, the above scheme has been disproved. 

As this is  595 Sq Spitfire XII

RAF-in-Combat.com_Spitfire-XII-17-300x16

 

see https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235047794-spitfire-mk-xii/page/6/

 

 

A search of 1690 Flight turns up this

https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/139861-1690-bdtf-raf-metheringham

 

1690 Flight was code 9M

 

An interesting article here on the 1690 BTDF, listing Hurricane in use in 1945

http://www.vickersvaliant.com/1690-bdtf.html

 

with a log book scan, code letters, but no serials,  and no 'P'

 

But the Hurricane above does have what look like an unusual scheme, which would tie in with nigh flying fighter affiliation(as in black underside and dark spinner).

 

Any thoughts?  

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Not PC476.  C was never used in serials, to avoid confusion with G and O.  For the same reason it was not used in squadron codes, until they ran out of other possibilities late in the war.   I think. however, the answer is PG476, which was delivered April/May 1944 to 41 OTU, and it is the date that is wrong.  Or PG478 (OK, just seen that in the title.  Sorry.)

 

Note however the tag on the aerial for the HF wire. which would imply an earlier build.  Or perhaps just use of an old spare?

 

I'm not so sure about the black undersides.  They appear to be lighter than the blue of the roundel, as does the side of the radiator.  Just shadow?   The shadow of the tailplane suggests the sun is directly above the aircraft (give or take the odd 30 or so degrees of latitude, of course).

 

PS  See thread about the same aircraft on the RAF Commands website, General category forum.

 

Edited by Graham Boak
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6 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

PS  See thread about the same aircraft on the RAF Commands website, General category forum

http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?27172-Aircraft-Movement-Cards-(AM-Fom-78)-for-Hawker-Hurricane-II-PG478

6 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Note however the tag on the aerial for the HF wire. which would imply an earlier build.  Or perhaps just use of an old spare?

I'd suggest use of old equipment.  PG478 is from the last Hawker batch

4 hours ago, AWFK10 said:

For example, see this Hurricane I photographed in 1944/45 and probably from the OTU at RAF Westwood. Or this shot. And yet, this photo of one of the unit's Hurricanes on its back shows that the undersides are Medium Sea Grey.

Re, old equipment, note that the Hurricanes in the links are fitted with De Havilland props and spinners, but from the serials would have had Rotols fitted when built.   

Worth a thread of it's own later. 

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Troy, many thanks for posting this.  I was really pleased to see this photo emerge as I have been looking for a long time for a shot of one of the Hurricanes my father flew at 16 OTU.  This unit was a Wellington OTU and operated Martinets and Hurricane IIc aircraft as a fighter affiliation flight at Barford St John.  He flew the Hurricanes between April and September 1944 and they included PG478 S.  The OTU was disbanded and reborn as a Mosquito OTU  on 1 Jan 45 and this may have been when PG478 was transferred to 1690 BDTF.

 

Put me down in the 'black under-sides' camp.  I can't see any trace of a lighter colour.  I've also noted that roundel blue often appears darker than 'black' in photos.  I know that the 16 OTU aircraft were flown on Fighter Affiliation sorties at night - which could account for the repaint.  The underwing roundels are a bit of a mystery.

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If the undersides are in shadow on a brightish day with the sun almost overhead, as it appears they are, they would most likely appear very dark.  Getting anything other than very dark (except for white, which is a different matter) would probably have hugely overexposed the upper surfaces and the background. It's Of course black would also look like that but without any other evidence it's black it's far more likely not to be.

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On 11/02/2021 at 11:55, AWFK10 said:

I suspect it's just shadow. For example, see this Hurricane I photographed in 1944/45 and probably from the OTU at RAF Westwood. Or this shot. And yet, this photo of one of the unit's Hurricanes on its back shows that the undersides are Medium Sea Grey. (The photos are from the 457th Bomb Group Association website, a real treasure trove.) 

Or this 109 which we know was not black:

 

1955024_3f43975efa257239703f03342131939a

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