JWM Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 I started to think on scratching one day AW 27 Ensign in 1/72. There is a Ececuform vacu, but very difficult to get and a brand new 3D print, but I am not ready yet to use this technique. Maybe I am wrong..., So far I am considering scratch play.... Anyway - first I go through the machine history and found that pre-war ten Mk I were equipped with AS Tiger engines, then during war they were re-equipped with Wright Cyclone GR-1820 engines, from as well some more were produced as Mk II in that configuration. They looks like having a complete "power egg " taken out from Hudson. Two Mk1 were captured via France (one in 1940, second in 1942 when Vichy state was ended) by Germans and both finally were (?) re-engined with Daimler engines, I think DB 601, so V-type, although I did not found any photo of German Ensign so far. Nevertheless I will go (when I will decide to) rather to do a BOAC machine with camouflage used between India and Egypt, for example that one . The above is G-ADSV from Wiki files. The very first my question is about the reliable drawings. The best what I have found so far as drawings are that : https://www.aeromodellers.co.uk/forum/scale-models/32625-a-w-ensign However, the chord of wings on those drawings seems to be too long, when you compare it with the length of part of fuselage between wings and tail on photos. The others drawings are even much more simplified and details free... Any thought on this? Regards J-W 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Hi J-W, Be careful, as the drawings in your link seems to suffer from the same mistake as in the 3d produced kit: the top of the fuselage *is not* a continuous line from the leading to the trailing edge of the wing! This detail alone put me away from buying the kit, as it is pretty obvious in many photograps, including the one above. If the producer missed that... I would try to find the Execuform kit, even if it will be difficult. Or scratchbuilt one, you certainly have the skills for it. Cheers, Carlos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 @JWM have you tried contact contact Herril family? I think they have molds for these. I sent yesterday question related same kit. I will share response when I have it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 I recall a thread dealing with the one that ended up in Vichy French hands, and the general conclusion was that there was no way it was ever re-engined by the Germans. I think that this is another one of those myths. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Here's what I'm able to access on the Ensign at the moment: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1AiKWrkV41BwSMg9yktE-F-WEgzEKKfwZ?usp=sharing 30 minutes ago, Vesa Jussila said: @JWM have you tried contact contact Herril family? I think they have molds for these. I sent yesterday question related same kit. I will share response when I have it. I also would be interested in the answer! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 @CarLos I will share it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 What a hot topic an Ensign appeared! I appreciate so vigorous answers. @Graham Boak, I also feel that if the Germans will re-engined Ensigns it was rather with Alfa Romeo or Hispano-Suiza copies of Wright Cyclone, which were for them available (or even perhaps BMW 323) but why it should be Daimler ? And then they scrapped them in 1943... I agree, that sounds like a myth. @Vesa Jussila - many thanks, I am of course interesting in result of your query. @CarLos - many thanks for your link - there are two drawings - one for ancient wood modelers, second regular in high resolution and also nice photos. Very interesting! There is a nice set of photos on a Russian web page http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft21568.htm among them at least three, which illustrate very well the wing-fuselage intersection problem you've mentioned: Regards J-W 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 I googled for while and here is very good model build from Herril vacu https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.154236698068442.1073741825.153074348184677&type=1 Looks interesting, its is Mk 1 with AS Tigers ... I did not known before about this company at all! Regards J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 hours ago, JWM said: I also feel that if the Germans will re-engined Ensigns it was rather with Alfa Romeo or Hispano-Suiza copies of Wright Cyclone, which were for them available (or even perhaps BMW 323) but why it should be Daimler ? And then they scrapped them in 1943... I agree, that sounds like a myth. BMWs or Bramos indeed. Lots spare. whereas any Cylcones would have been kept to maintain the DC-3s that Lufthansa put into service. I think this was the only captured airliner type to be used. As for the Ensign, operating a single example of a type is never a good idea. Besides, there must have been available several examples of equal or superior French types such as the Bloch 220 and the Dewoitine 333. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazy8 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 The idea that a captured Ensign was re-engined with DBs seems to have come from a small piece in The Aeroplane in 1943, reporting that a Ensign captured in France had been sighted operating in Finland. There appears to have been no truth in any element of that - although I don't have the reference for it, I understand it was thought at the time to have been inspired by one of Lord Haw-Haw's broadcasts. The aircraft they were referring to would have been G-ADSX Ettrick, captured at Le Bourget after being damaged in a Geman air raid. The only other more-or-less airworthy Ensign that was captured was G-AFZV Enterprise, force landed in West Africa in February 1942, and reported used as a hospital plane around the Mediterranean in late 1942. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Holden Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 4 hours ago, JWM said: I googled for while and here is very good model build from Herril vacu https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.154236698068442.1073741825.153074348184677&type=1 Looks interesting, its is Mk 1 with AS Tigers ... I did not known before about this company at all! Regards J-W Jim Lund is the guy who commissioned the Execuform vac. I think he carved the masters and Execuform (Mike Herrill) moulded them. Same thing with some of their other late kits like the Saro Princess and Fokker F-32. I read on the vacform FB page that no one had been able to contact Mike Herrill since around May last year, so I will be interested if there are any replies. I ordered some kits from him in around 2010 and he was long past retirement then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 So no answer so far, but let see if anything will turn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 On 2/10/2021 at 5:21 PM, CarLos said: Be careful, as the drawings in your link seems to suffer from the same mistake as in the 3d produced kit: the top of the fuselage *is not* a continuous line from the leading to the trailing edge of the wing! This detail alone put me away from buying the kit, as it is pretty obvious in many photograps, including the one above. If the producer missed that... I am not sure if I've got you right - the wing goes a bit higher then fuselage, as should, so maybe I overlooked the point... http://one-man-model.main.jp/pictures/aircraft_aw27/assy (6).JPG Regards J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 p.s. Here is interesting take of fuselage alone Very useful to see construction. Perhaps model should be done in similar way - fuselage and wings joined together when ready... Regards J-W 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 I was thinking making own vacuform mold for fuselage as a option. But wing is too challenging. I hope this kit will turn out somewhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoZG Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Japanese 3D printed model(s) looks good shape-wise, but the problem is the print quality. The producer is very stubborn and pursues the old technology with coarse surface and some rough details which is unacceptable for the price asked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 23 minutes ago, MarkoZG said: Japanese 3D printed model(s) looks good shape-wise, but the problem is the print quality. The producer is very stubborn and pursues the old technology with coarse surface and some rough details which is unacceptable for the price asked. Indeed. I am afraid that you are right in that opinion. He is precursor, and will take glory of that but still the smoothing the surface need huge efforts. 2 hours ago, Vesa Jussila said: I was thinking making own vacuform mold for fuselage as a option. But wing is too challenging. I hope this kit will turn out somewhere. The fuselages of transport and passenger machines like Ensign are a bit box-like, not very difficult to do as kind of sculpture made of scratch. To be frank the wings of Airfix Sunderland as kind of base are mine starting point - still on the terms of feasibility study. It is very likely that resin kit will appear in future, perhaps based on shapes of previous vacuformed kit. The chance for injected short run seem small, although recent appearance of Boeing 307 showed that one cannot exclude even that for a large models... Maybe it depends even on that our discussion here - as a suggestion of an interest for existence of such kit! Regards J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 On 2/12/2021 at 4:50 PM, JWM said: I am not sure if I've got you right - the wing goes a bit higher then fuselage, as should, so maybe I overlooked the point... http://one-man-model.main.jp/pictures/aircraft_aw27/assy (6).JPG Regards J-W J-W, what I mean is that the fuselage top is higher in front of the wing. The following drawing shows it very clearly. After noticing it, it's very obvious from many photos, including the one with the fuselage only. By the way, the same happens with another A.W. design, the Atalanta. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 The Atalanta: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted February 15, 2021 Author Share Posted February 15, 2021 Many thanks, now its clear what you've ment... Atlanta always recalls me Savoia SM 74 (Savoia was the follower, and larger) - I am lucky to have Broplan vacu kit of this one... Regards J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 @CarLos Thanks for sharing, maybe I need to do some CAD exercises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 I haven't heard anything related vacu kit's. Looks that maybe I need to start working with CAD by myself... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Civilian Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 There is one of Mike Herrill's vac models in my stash: I think it will be not easy to do a CAD as every contour is round and mostly in 3D. Have not heard from him or his wife for quite a while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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