Viggen tail numbers

[Giorgio N]

I'm building the SH 1/72 kit of the JA-37 Viggen and I'm now at the painting stage. I like the 2-grey scheme so this is the one I'm using but I'm not too keen on the options included in the SH kit.. one features a great looking badge on the tail but I understand that this was only applied for the retirement of the type.

The other has the tail numbers in black, that if I understand right was the way these were applied for a few years after the introduction of the type. Now nothing bad with these, however I'd like to do an aircraft with the large orange numbers on the wing and tail. The SH box does include markings for one such aircraft, but this is in the splinter scheme (that I will do at some point on a different variant of the Viggen).

Now I wonder, was there any logic for the numbers on the tail ? I saw a couple aircraft where these were the last two of the serial number, however this doesn't seem to be true for all aircraft . See for example the picture below of cn 37412

 

https://www.airfighters.com/photo/138192/L/Sweden-Air-Force/Saab-JA37-Viggen/37412/

 

Now this aircraft is potentially interesting to me as the SH box includes the numbers "12" for the splinter scheme and I could use these to build this aircraft... however I do not have the "412" in yellow while the unit badge on the tail may or not come from the Heller kit.

However the same aircraft at some point carried the number 32 in black on the tail, so I wonder, was the use of the last two of the construction number something introduced at a certain point or are the aircraft showing this feature only the result of coincidences ?

If the latter, does anybody know of other aircraft that carried the orange "12" on tail and wings during their career ? I don't mind the unit number on the front fuselage as everything in black is something I can print with laser.

 

In case all else fails, is there an easy source of these numbers ? I know that Moose Republic has a very nice sheet, however with delivery it would cost me as much as the kit and since all other decals in this seem to be of good quality I'd be happy to use as many as possible of these.

 

 

[Antti_K]

Hello Giorgio,

 

there is indeed a logic in the numbering system. The five digit number is the serial number issued by Flygvapnet. The first two digits state the aircraft type like 32 for "Lansen", 35 for "Draken" and 37 for "Viggen. The last three digits give the actual serial. Flygvapnet serial was given by adding -for example- 100 to the SAAB construction number (this is a wild guess, but it is possible that serial number 37412 was created by adding 100 to the SAAB's construction number, which in this example was 312). The "add 100 rule" applies at least for SAAB B17s and Lansens.

 

The number on both sides of the nose is the Wing number. This can be either one or two digits. And finally the two numbers on the fin (and sometimes on the wings) are just a random call sign number. It is possible that a certain airplane was given a number that matches the last two digits of the serial number.

 

I have a selection of decal sheets produced by the Swedish company called "Flying Colors Aerodecals". They have created very nice decal sets for the Viggen and they are available in here: https://www.modellhobby.se/sv/41_flying-colors-aerodecals

As you mentioned there are several sets available from the Moose Republic.

 

Cheers,

Antti

 

[Giorgio N]

Thanks Antii, the rules for the serial number makes perfect sense.

I was aware that the nose number indicated the unit, if the tail. numbers were random then I guess that I would have to search pictures and see if I can find other "12" or "21" marked aircaft.

Speaking of wing numbers, do you know if these were always present when they were in orange on the fin ? I know they were not when the numbers were in black but I don't know about later times

 

I had forgotten about Flying Colors, actually I have a couple of their sheets so I should have kept them in mind. I see that however they don't seem to have the orange numbers, only red ones, like the ones used on the tail of splinter coloured Viggens.

One alternative may be trying to use masks to paint my own numbers of course... I also realised that I have the Heller kit, maybe the orange numbers in this one are useable...

 

Thanks !

 

 

[Antti_K]

You are welcome Giorgio. During Cold War years the Wing number was always painted on the aircraft. Either on the sides of the nose (Drakens, Viggens) or on the rear fuselage (Canberra, DC-3, Lansen). The rule is that the Wing number is always close to the national insignia. Wing numbers were golden yellow on camouflaged aircraft and black on aluminium coloured. The font changed during the 60s from a "narrow" one to more "rounded" one.

 

It looks like current SAAB Gripens carry both the "call sign" and Wing numbers on the fin (like 39-8), where 8 is the Wing Number.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Giorgio N]

Sorry Antii, I didn't explain my question correctly... for wing numbers I meant the individual orange numbers over the wings, not the Wing number as identification of the "flygflottilj". My mistake !

The Wing number as in unit number is not a big problem for this model as on grey Viggens this was in black so I can print it at home. What may be a problem is the presence of unit badges, that seem to be present on some aircraft and not on others and also when present they seem to be in different locations on aircraft of different units

[Antti_K]

Giorgio it looks like I misunderstood your question, sorry🙂

 

There is a difference between wing numbers and Wing Numbers... The unit badges remained unaltered after WWII; possibly you could find the needed insignia on some other decal sheet? Like the Blekinge Flygflottilj badge on 37412 seen in here: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blekinge_flygflottilj

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Parrahs]

From what I can recall/tell the ID number on the tail of the aircraft started out as the last two numbers of the registration number, but exceptions for some reason exist (possibly as aircraft got shipped around, replaced, sent for lengthy service, or due to multiple aircraft having the same two last numbers in the reg. numbers). So the photo over at airfighters shows aircraft #37412, and it has 12 on the fin. Unit symbols /usually a coat of arms) were simply allowed, and may thus have varied a good deal on a unit by unit basis, though the chief of the air force had to agree to everything.

 

Gripen would eventually transition to three digit ID numbers on the fin and nothing to identify the unit it belonged to.

[Bjorn]

On 13/02/2021 at 12:55, Parrahs said:

From what I can recall/tell the ID number on the tail of the aircraft started out as the last two numbers of the registration number, but exceptions for some reason exist (possibly as aircraft got shipped around, replaced, sent for lengthy service, or due to multiple aircraft having the same two last numbers in the reg. numbers). So the photo over at airfighters shows aircraft #37412, and it has 12 on the fin. Unit symbols /usually a coat of arms) were simply allowed, and may thus have varied a good deal on a unit by unit basis, though the chief of the air force had to agree to everything.

 

Gripen would eventually transition to three digit ID numbers on the fin and nothing to identify the unit it belonged to.

Right and wrong. Sometimes the two last numbers of the registration number was used as the ID number, for instance on the first 69 AJ 37. But more often these two numbers had no connection. 

There was just one more "12" JA 37 - 37365 F 21-12. However I can only find one picture of it and at that time it was camouflaged. And I don't think it was re-painted grey. But there is a very easy solution: Just swap the numbers, and you can build 37421 F 17-21 that looked exactly the same as on the picture you have linked to - however the fin badge is not included on the SH sheet - but on the Heller sheet where you also have the "17". The only difference from the picture you have linked to, was that the entire nose cone was painted light grey, not having the same pattern as regular JA 37s.

A later picture of F 17-21 can be find at Airfighters.com (linking not allowed, but just google "Viggen 37421"), at that time it did not carry any badge but it had - for some strange reason - yellow nose numbers. It also flew as F 4-21, but carrying a badge behind the cockpit that is not included on the SH sheet.

You can also build 37401 F 21-21, that also was grey and that did not carry any badge. I have a pictures of these two, but can't publish it here for copyright reasons. But PM me, I can help you. 
 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Bjorn

[Giorgio N]

Thanks a lot folks, some more useful info here !

 

Bjorn. I had found some pictures of 37421 and this was another potential candidates. Initially I had only found the ones with the all grey nosecone, then I found this one where the scheme seems to be the more common one:

 

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Sweden-Air-Force/Saab-JA37-Viggen/2316275/L

 

This one shows the badge, guess that as this is quite small even if the Heller decal is not the best I can make it work... however also has the last 3 of the serial number in yellow just above the rudder and I wouldn't know how to reproduce these, same problem I had with 37412.

In any case, I'll PM you ! And in worst case scenario, I'll build an aircraft with black tail numbers, they look quite elegant anyway

[Soris]

Giorgio, how can I send you a private photo message because the message says it's impossible?

[Graham Boak]

Send him a PM asking for his private email, then send the photo to that.

[Soris]

"Giorgio N cannot receive messages."
Does this mean that Giorgio does not receive messages at all or only with a photo?

[Giorgio N]

Hmm... strange, I will have to check my inbox. I'll try sending you a PM !

 

Thanks !

[Antti_K]

Hello guys,

 

apparently the PM Soris sent ended up in my inbox!? Although I can't see it in my inbox, I can see it in my Gmail account. Weird...

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Paramedic]

You mentioned the Sh boxing? Be aware that SH 37s are first generation Viggens that differs from the JAs; ie. the latter has the RM8B engine and thus a longer fuselage with that insert ahead of the main wing etc.

All SHs were painted in splinter camo but the JAs were both in splinter and grey-grey (plus the test aircraft in various greys and one white). Even the upgraded AJSHs were always in splinter though there is a gate guardian that is in some weird grey.. Can´t remember where but somewhere north.. Söderhamn? (Old F 15 Wing if that is the case.)

 

It is correct as far as I know about the numbers, serials etc. The id number varied but could be the last two digits from the serial number. But it also changed over time.

 

The Wings that flew the SHs or AJSHs were F 7 (1. division, for a short while), F 10 (1. division), F 13 (1. division), F 15 (1. and 2. division)F 17 (2. division) and F 21 (1. division)

 

Division --> squadron?