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Hasegawa McDonnell Douglas Phantom F-4 Family in 1/72 scale


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Hi there

 

Well with some modellers we been discussing about the central under fuselage pylon for the Phantom F-4 family in 1/72 scale and not find it anywere so maybe some of you can help us a bit

 

The Hasewawa Phantom family has some issues that can be corrected taking from old kits (such as AIM-4 Falcon rails and the travel pod only to be found in old Hasewaga Phantoms) and the clean under wing pylon that you can find on Fujimi Phantoms (normally this position was used with fuel tanks but not for small carriers in Vietnam war)

 

Lots of ordenance can be found in Hasegawa Weapons sets (other than the elusive later M117 750 pound bombs) one BIG miss on Set Air to Air Missiles is that only include one set (4 missiles) of AIM-7 Sparrow so if you want to do a F-4 Phantom, a F-14 Tomcat and F-15 Eagle you need to buy 3 sets. Same mistake in modern Air to Air Missiles set you got loads of 

AIM-120 AAMRAM but very few upgraded AIM-9X Sidewinder

 

Regards

 

Armando 

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I can't check because I don't have one in the stash but I seem to remember that the Fujimi J-79 engine Phantoms had a long, under fuselage pylon as well as the outer wing ones. (long time since I made one though)

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2 hours ago, RAGATIGER said:

Hi there

 

Well with some modellers we been discussing about the central under fuselage pylon for the Phantom F-4 family in 1/72 scale and not find it anywere so maybe some of you can help us a bit

 

The Hasewawa Phantom family has some issues that can be corrected taking from old kits (such as AIM-4 Falcon rails and the travel pod only to be found in old Hasewaga Phantoms) and the clean under wing pylon that you can find on Fujimi Phantoms (normally this position was used with fuel tanks but not for small carriers in Vietnam war)

 

Are these the bits you're talking about?   I thought they're travel pods.  Found in a box of Phantom spares.

100-3100.jpg

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@theplasticsurgeon

 

Those do look like travel pods, which were made from BLU-1B and BLU-10   napalm stores, IIRC. A hatch was cut out on one side and fitted with a piano hinge. We had a discussion which included photos and diagrams a while back, and you could look for it. I do know the older Hasegawa F-4E, kit #00322 has the travel pods plus a centerline tank, but the long stores pylon is attached to the tank halves, as it is on the Monogram  F-4C/D kits. The new-tool Hasegawa Phantom kits might have the centerline pylon as a separate part, but it can easily be made from plasticard and some small card bits, if you just want to  depict your Phantom with a bare stores/fuel tank pylon.

Mike

 

Here's a neat link to air-dropped aircraft stores that might be useful to many of you; it includes the BLU-1B and BLU-10 napalm stores that were commonly modified into travel pods.

 

http://www.designation-systems.net/usmilav/asetds/u-b.html

Edited by 72modeler
corrected spelling
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4 hours ago, iainpeden said:

I can't check because I don't have one in the stash but I seem to remember that the Fujimi J-79 engine Phantoms had a long, under fuselage pylon as well as the outer wing ones. (long time since I made one though)

Thanks Iainpeden

 

I think I still have one of those on the stash .......... So I'm going to look for the central pylon. The thing is that for Hasegawa Phantoms only load in the centra fuselaje is the fuel tank

 

Thanks

 

Armando

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16 hours ago, RAGATIGER said:

one BIG miss on Set Air to Air Missiles is that only include one set (4 missiles) of AIM-7 Sparrow so if you want to do a F-4 Phantom, a F-14 Tomcat and F-15 Eagle you need to buy 3 sets. Same mistake in modern Air to Air Missiles set

Those aren't "mistakes", those are "marketing ploys".  :) 

 

At least the older Hase weapons sets have four sprues. The newer ones just have three. 

 

Another good source for travel pods is Academy's 1/72nd A-37 kit, BTW

 

Cheers,

 

Andre 

 

 

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For outer pylons I think there are three types of them;

Navy style present on Fujimi kits

USAF style that require some scratch building by using Fujimi pylons

Exclusive to drop tanks, not sure if early drop tanks had a different pylon, not sure if there it was a fixed type and a detachable type for later drop tanks

 

Now Hasegawa and their once again Limited Edition kit does come with a single outboard pylon to attach the dust collector pod, I'm not sure if it's correct for USAF specimens or not but there is just one, for centerline pylons I think Hasegawa (R)F-4EJ has the one needed for pods and Fujimi the one needed for MER rails, the third type should be for drop tanks and not sure if there it was fourth type for the not so comfy Recce and Pave Tack pods

 

Luigi

Edited by Silverkite
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9 hours ago, Hook said:

 

Another good source for travel pods is Academy's 1/72nd A-37 kit, BTW

 

Cheers,

 

Andre 

 

 

The ones from the A-37 can be used for later timeframe F-4s. They are of the more pointed type and are also seen on USAF teen fighters. The blunt nosed type as supplied in the earlier Hase kits was used earlier in the USAF and foreign service F-4 life.  We in the Luftwaffe had both types until about 2003 ish. Then we only used the later type since it was stressed for 5g

instead of the 3 g of the older type.

Cheers

Michael

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2 hours ago, Silverkite said:

For outer pylons I think there are three types of them;

Navy style present on Fujimi kits

USAF style that require some scratch building by using Fujimi pylons

Exclusive to drop tanks, not sure if early drop tanks had a different pylon, not sure if there it was a fixed type and a detachable type for later drop tanks

 

In 1/72, Hypersonic Models has only Navy outer pylons. However, in 1/48 Jeffrey has both Navy and USAF outer pylons as well as the centerline pylon. Unfortunately 1/72 may not be profitable for Hypersonic. However, given the interest as shown here and other sites, and seeing how very popular the new line of FineMolds Phantoms are, that could provide some encouragement for Hypersonic to consider scaling the 1/48 pylons down to 1/72.👍

 

As for wing tank pylons, the brief summary is: very early on, both USN and USAF had separate pylons and tanks; USAF went from McD tanks to Sgt Fletcher that incorporated the pylons with the tanks, while the USN stayed with separate pylon and tank.  As opposed to USAF pylons, USN pylons did not have weapons capability, hence needed an adapter.

 

Great discussions (and outstanding links) on Phantom pylons and adapters are way back here (2010 and earlier) if details are wanted!

 

Gene K

P.S. silverkite - note that one of the main contributors to the threads linked above was silverkite211 from Kansas!

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17 hours ago, Hook said:

Those aren't "mistakes", those are "marketing ploys".  :) 

 

At least the older Hase weapons sets have four sprues. The newer ones just have three. 

 

 

Yes Andre 

It look that something still doesn't makes sense as most recent 1/72 Hasegawa kits F/A-18E/F (include AIM 9X and AIM120 AMRAAM misiles), F-15E limited edition (included an extra modern weapons sprue) even F-35 include some missiles maybe because its market adversaries include more missiles and stencils

 

Regards

 

Armando

 

PD I found one central Phantom pylon but I can scratch more all thanks your advice 

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11 hours ago, Silverkite said:

For outer pylons I think there are three types of them;

Navy style present on Fujimi kits

USAF style that require some scratch building by using Fujimi pylons

Exclusive to drop tanks, not sure if early drop tanks had a different pylon, not sure if there it was a fixed type and a detachable type for later drop tanks

 

Now Hasegawa and their once again Limited Edition kit does come with a single outboard pylon to attach the dust collector pod, I'm not sure if it's correct for USAF specimens or not but there is just one, for centerline pylons I think Hasegawa (R)F-4EJ has the one needed for pods and Fujimi the one needed for MER rails, the third type should be for drop tanks and not sure if there it was fourth type for the not so comfy Recce and Pave Tack pods

 

Luigi

Yes Luigi you're right its on Limited Edition Hasegawa Phantom this kits included the USAF wing pylon

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10744010/70/3

 

And this (R)F-4EJ include underfuselage central pylon for both recon ECM pods

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10662389/70/3

 

Revell Germany recent F-4F Phantom II also not include clean wing fuel tank pylons nor central under fuselage pylon

https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/7/8/4/103784-64-instructions.pdf

 

But include two different type of wing ends that allow to do hard wing (early) and slated wing (late) Phantoms

 

Regards

 

Armando

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4 hours ago, RAGATIGER said:

Revell Germany recent F-4F Phantom II also not include clean wing fuel tank pylons nor central under fuselage pylon

https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/7/8/4/103784-64-instructions.pdf

 

But include two different type of wing ends that allow to do hard wing (early) and slated wing (late) Phantoms

Just remember, the RoG F-4F kit correctly represents the unslotted stabs of the German variants.

 

F-4E/EJ's had the slotted ones. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

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On 2/9/2021 at 5:15 PM, Silverkite said:

For outer pylons I think there are three types of them;

Navy style present on Fujimi kits

USAF style that require some scratch building by using Fujimi pylons

Exclusive to drop tanks, not sure if early drop tanks had a different pylon, not sure if there it was a fixed type and a detachable type for later drop tanks

What about the early elliptical tanks as used on early F-4Bs (as in Revell's H-110)? The shape suggests a different one.

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27 minutes ago, tempestfan said:

What about the early elliptical tanks as used on early F-4Bs (as in Revell's H-110)? The shape suggests a different one.

Those are the earlier McDonnell designed tanks. Different shape dimensions and position of the longitudinal seam. They were used by early F-4H1 and F-4Bs. The You could see them on MARINE F-4Bs in Vietnam as well

 Hypersonic makes them in 72 scale.

Click

Michael

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4 minutes ago, Scout712 said:

Those are the earlier McDonnell designed tanks. Different shape dimensions and position of the longitudinal seam. They were used by early F-4H1 and F-4Bs. The You could see them on MARINE F-4Bs in Vietnam as well

 Hypersonic makes them in 72 scale.

Click

Michael

I must look closer - even the very early Airfix F-4B has the Fletcher (parallel) tanks, so it it somewhat surprising that the elliptical tanks soldiered on until '65 at least.

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2 hours ago, Scout712 said:

Those are the earlier McDonnell designed tanks ... They were used by early F-4H1 and F-4Bs. The You could see them on MARINE F-4Bs in Vietnam as well ... .

 And early USAF F-4Cs.

 

 

spacer.png

 

Gene K

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Hi there

 

Well following the wonderful adventures of Phantom Modeling I just got a couple of Phantoms one Hasegawa F-4G new and another Hasegawa F-4E used (but almost complete) in other leage 1/48, so tomorrow I'll be using the office Photocopier to have my drawings in astonishing 1/72 scale ....... meaning I'm going to use the 1/48 ventral weapons pylon to have my accurate master

 

https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/0/8/1/114081-82-instructions.pdf

 

Regards

 

Armando

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5 hours ago, Gene K said:

 And early USAF F-4Cs.

 

 

spacer.png

 

Gene K

Hi Gene,

That is an interesting picture. What missile do I see in the foreground? On a side not, while I agree that the early F-4C carried the McDonnel tanks, it is also important to note that the first batch of F-4C for McDill were actually F-4Bs loaned from the Navy. Furthermore, early F-4C retained the Navy straight onboard pylon (LAU-17) as seen on this picture. You could also see that pylon on SEA camo'd Cs. Also, the Cs kept the LAU-7 sidewinder rail throughout their career instead of the Aero-3B of F-4D (post Aim-4) through G. Late Es and Gs even received the LAU-105 rails aparently to accommodate the AIM-9L. The launch rails are a mistake many Phantom models sport.

B/r

Michael

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6 hours ago, Scout712 said:

 ... while I agree that the early F-4C carried the McDonnel tanks, it is also important to note that the first batch of F-4C for McDill were actually F-4Bs loaned from the Navy.

 

Yes, there is detailed info on early Phantoms at the 4453CCTW site as well as here.

 

Serendipity -- Funderkals will "soon" (web site in preparation) have decals for early Gray/White Phantoms that are accompanied by these comprehensive historical notes. These decals are 1/48 scale, but getting back on topic ... hopefully they will also be available in 1/72 for our Hasegawa and FineMolds Phantoms!!

 

Gene K

 

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On 2/11/2021 at 2:15 AM, Scout712 said:

Hhm, it looks more like a mixture between an AGM-12 and an AGM-53.

Michael

 

I think you're being fooled by an optical illusion: there are two AGM-12s in the photo, staggered one behind the other. The viewpoint of the camera has them lined up *almost* perfectly one behind the other, such that it looks like a single missile with an elongated body and tandem pairs of main wings. But if you look closely, you'll see the forward missile is visibly below the one behind it (most notable along the top line of the missile bodies).

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