RAGATIGER Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Hi there Well with some modellers we been discussing about the central under fuselage pylon for the Phantom F-4 family in 1/72 scale and not find it anywere so maybe some of you can help us a bit The Hasewawa Phantom family has some issues that can be corrected taking from old kits (such as AIM-4 Falcon rails and the travel pod only to be found in old Hasewaga Phantoms) and the clean under wing pylon that you can find on Fujimi Phantoms (normally this position was used with fuel tanks but not for small carriers in Vietnam war) Lots of ordenance can be found in Hasegawa Weapons sets (other than the elusive later M117 750 pound bombs) one BIG miss on Set Air to Air Missiles is that only include one set (4 missiles) of AIM-7 Sparrow so if you want to do a F-4 Phantom, a F-14 Tomcat and F-15 Eagle you need to buy 3 sets. Same mistake in modern Air to Air Missiles set you got loads of AIM-120 AAMRAM but very few upgraded AIM-9X Sidewinder Regards Armando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 I can't check because I don't have one in the stash but I seem to remember that the Fujimi J-79 engine Phantoms had a long, under fuselage pylon as well as the outer wing ones. (long time since I made one though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 hours ago, RAGATIGER said: Hi there Well with some modellers we been discussing about the central under fuselage pylon for the Phantom F-4 family in 1/72 scale and not find it anywere so maybe some of you can help us a bit The Hasewawa Phantom family has some issues that can be corrected taking from old kits (such as AIM-4 Falcon rails and the travel pod only to be found in old Hasewaga Phantoms) and the clean under wing pylon that you can find on Fujimi Phantoms (normally this position was used with fuel tanks but not for small carriers in Vietnam war) Are these the bits you're talking about? I thought they're travel pods. Found in a box of Phantom spares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) @theplasticsurgeon Those do look like travel pods, which were made from BLU-1B and BLU-10 napalm stores, IIRC. A hatch was cut out on one side and fitted with a piano hinge. We had a discussion which included photos and diagrams a while back, and you could look for it. I do know the older Hasegawa F-4E, kit #00322 has the travel pods plus a centerline tank, but the long stores pylon is attached to the tank halves, as it is on the Monogram F-4C/D kits. The new-tool Hasegawa Phantom kits might have the centerline pylon as a separate part, but it can easily be made from plasticard and some small card bits, if you just want to depict your Phantom with a bare stores/fuel tank pylon. Mike Here's a neat link to air-dropped aircraft stores that might be useful to many of you; it includes the BLU-1B and BLU-10 napalm stores that were commonly modified into travel pods. http://www.designation-systems.net/usmilav/asetds/u-b.html Edited February 9, 2021 by 72modeler corrected spelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAGATIGER Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 4 hours ago, iainpeden said: I can't check because I don't have one in the stash but I seem to remember that the Fujimi J-79 engine Phantoms had a long, under fuselage pylon as well as the outer wing ones. (long time since I made one though) Thanks Iainpeden I think I still have one of those on the stash .......... So I'm going to look for the central pylon. The thing is that for Hasegawa Phantoms only load in the centra fuselaje is the fuel tank Thanks Armando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 16 hours ago, RAGATIGER said: one BIG miss on Set Air to Air Missiles is that only include one set (4 missiles) of AIM-7 Sparrow so if you want to do a F-4 Phantom, a F-14 Tomcat and F-15 Eagle you need to buy 3 sets. Same mistake in modern Air to Air Missiles set Those aren't "mistakes", those are "marketing ploys". At least the older Hase weapons sets have four sprues. The newer ones just have three. Another good source for travel pods is Academy's 1/72nd A-37 kit, BTW. Cheers, Andre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverkite Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) For outer pylons I think there are three types of them; Navy style present on Fujimi kits USAF style that require some scratch building by using Fujimi pylons Exclusive to drop tanks, not sure if early drop tanks had a different pylon, not sure if there it was a fixed type and a detachable type for later drop tanks Now Hasegawa and their once again Limited Edition kit does come with a single outboard pylon to attach the dust collector pod, I'm not sure if it's correct for USAF specimens or not but there is just one, for centerline pylons I think Hasegawa (R)F-4EJ has the one needed for pods and Fujimi the one needed for MER rails, the third type should be for drop tanks and not sure if there it was fourth type for the not so comfy Recce and Pave Tack pods Luigi Edited February 9, 2021 by Silverkite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout712 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 9 hours ago, Hook said: Another good source for travel pods is Academy's 1/72nd A-37 kit, BTW. Cheers, Andre The ones from the A-37 can be used for later timeframe F-4s. They are of the more pointed type and are also seen on USAF teen fighters. The blunt nosed type as supplied in the earlier Hase kits was used earlier in the USAF and foreign service F-4 life. We in the Luftwaffe had both types until about 2003 ish. Then we only used the later type since it was stressed for 5g instead of the 3 g of the older type. Cheers Michael 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Silverkite said: For outer pylons I think there are three types of them; Navy style present on Fujimi kits USAF style that require some scratch building by using Fujimi pylons Exclusive to drop tanks, not sure if early drop tanks had a different pylon, not sure if there it was a fixed type and a detachable type for later drop tanks In 1/72, Hypersonic Models has only Navy outer pylons. However, in 1/48 Jeffrey has both Navy and USAF outer pylons as well as the centerline pylon. Unfortunately 1/72 may not be profitable for Hypersonic. However, given the interest as shown here and other sites, and seeing how very popular the new line of FineMolds Phantoms are, that could provide some encouragement for Hypersonic to consider scaling the 1/48 pylons down to 1/72.👍 As for wing tank pylons, the brief summary is: very early on, both USN and USAF had separate pylons and tanks; USAF went from McD tanks to Sgt Fletcher that incorporated the pylons with the tanks, while the USN stayed with separate pylon and tank. As opposed to USAF pylons, USN pylons did not have weapons capability, hence needed an adapter. Great discussions (and outstanding links) on Phantom pylons and adapters are way back here (2010 and earlier) if details are wanted! Gene K P.S. silverkite - note that one of the main contributors to the threads linked above was silverkite211 from Kansas! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAGATIGER Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 17 hours ago, Hook said: Those aren't "mistakes", those are "marketing ploys". At least the older Hase weapons sets have four sprues. The newer ones just have three. Yes Andre It look that something still doesn't makes sense as most recent 1/72 Hasegawa kits F/A-18E/F (include AIM 9X and AIM120 AMRAAM misiles), F-15E limited edition (included an extra modern weapons sprue) even F-35 include some missiles maybe because its market adversaries include more missiles and stencils Regards Armando PD I found one central Phantom pylon but I can scratch more all thanks your advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAGATIGER Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 11 hours ago, Silverkite said: For outer pylons I think there are three types of them; Navy style present on Fujimi kits USAF style that require some scratch building by using Fujimi pylons Exclusive to drop tanks, not sure if early drop tanks had a different pylon, not sure if there it was a fixed type and a detachable type for later drop tanks Now Hasegawa and their once again Limited Edition kit does come with a single outboard pylon to attach the dust collector pod, I'm not sure if it's correct for USAF specimens or not but there is just one, for centerline pylons I think Hasegawa (R)F-4EJ has the one needed for pods and Fujimi the one needed for MER rails, the third type should be for drop tanks and not sure if there it was fourth type for the not so comfy Recce and Pave Tack pods Luigi Yes Luigi you're right its on Limited Edition Hasegawa Phantom this kits included the USAF wing pylon https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10744010/70/3 And this (R)F-4EJ include underfuselage central pylon for both recon ECM pods https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10662389/70/3 Revell Germany recent F-4F Phantom II also not include clean wing fuel tank pylons nor central under fuselage pylon https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/7/8/4/103784-64-instructions.pdf But include two different type of wing ends that allow to do hard wing (early) and slated wing (late) Phantoms Regards Armando 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 4 hours ago, RAGATIGER said: Revell Germany recent F-4F Phantom II also not include clean wing fuel tank pylons nor central under fuselage pylon https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/7/8/4/103784-64-instructions.pdf But include two different type of wing ends that allow to do hard wing (early) and slated wing (late) Phantoms Just remember, the RoG F-4F kit correctly represents the unslotted stabs of the German variants. F-4E/EJ's had the slotted ones. Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverkite Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 the sleek? pylon visible here for the Pave Tack pod, was also compatible with MER? Because I remember an IDF Phantom sporting it Luigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout712 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 The Pylon for the PaveTack was different than the regular stores pylon. It is waaay fatter and completely different in shape. I scratch built it for my F-4E some years ago using scale drawings provided by Jim Rotramel aka Mr.Vark on ARC. AVQ-26 Pylon 1/48 scale. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 On 2/9/2021 at 5:15 PM, Silverkite said: For outer pylons I think there are three types of them; Navy style present on Fujimi kits USAF style that require some scratch building by using Fujimi pylons Exclusive to drop tanks, not sure if early drop tanks had a different pylon, not sure if there it was a fixed type and a detachable type for later drop tanks What about the early elliptical tanks as used on early F-4Bs (as in Revell's H-110)? The shape suggests a different one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout712 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 27 minutes ago, tempestfan said: What about the early elliptical tanks as used on early F-4Bs (as in Revell's H-110)? The shape suggests a different one. Those are the earlier McDonnell designed tanks. Different shape dimensions and position of the longitudinal seam. They were used by early F-4H1 and F-4Bs. The You could see them on MARINE F-4Bs in Vietnam as well Hypersonic makes them in 72 scale. Click Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Scout712 said: Those are the earlier McDonnell designed tanks. Different shape dimensions and position of the longitudinal seam. They were used by early F-4H1 and F-4Bs. The You could see them on MARINE F-4Bs in Vietnam as well Hypersonic makes them in 72 scale. Click Michael I must look closer - even the very early Airfix F-4B has the Fletcher (parallel) tanks, so it it somewhat surprising that the elliptical tanks soldiered on until '65 at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Scout712 said: Those are the earlier McDonnell designed tanks ... They were used by early F-4H1 and F-4Bs. The You could see them on MARINE F-4Bs in Vietnam as well ... . And early USAF F-4Cs. Gene K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAGATIGER Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 Hi there Well following the wonderful adventures of Phantom Modeling I just got a couple of Phantoms one Hasegawa F-4G new and another Hasegawa F-4E used (but almost complete) in other leage 1/48, so tomorrow I'll be using the office Photocopier to have my drawings in astonishing 1/72 scale ....... meaning I'm going to use the 1/48 ventral weapons pylon to have my accurate master https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/0/8/1/114081-82-instructions.pdf Regards Armando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout712 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 5 hours ago, Gene K said: And early USAF F-4Cs. Gene K Hi Gene, That is an interesting picture. What missile do I see in the foreground? On a side not, while I agree that the early F-4C carried the McDonnel tanks, it is also important to note that the first batch of F-4C for McDill were actually F-4Bs loaned from the Navy. Furthermore, early F-4C retained the Navy straight onboard pylon (LAU-17) as seen on this picture. You could also see that pylon on SEA camo'd Cs. Also, the Cs kept the LAU-7 sidewinder rail throughout their career instead of the Aero-3B of F-4D (post Aim-4) through G. Late Es and Gs even received the LAU-105 rails aparently to accommodate the AIM-9L. The launch rails are a mistake many Phantom models sport. B/r Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 @Scout712: Those are AGM-12 Bullpups. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-12_Bullpup Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout712 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 28 minutes ago, Hook said: @Scout712: Those are AGM-12 Bullpups. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-12_Bullpup Cheers, Andre Hhm, it looks more like a mixture between an AGM-12 and an AGM-53. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 6 hours ago, Scout712 said: ... while I agree that the early F-4C carried the McDonnel tanks, it is also important to note that the first batch of F-4C for McDill were actually F-4Bs loaned from the Navy. Yes, there is detailed info on early Phantoms at the 4453CCTW site as well as here. Serendipity -- Funderkals will "soon" (web site in preparation) have decals for early Gray/White Phantoms that are accompanied by these comprehensive historical notes. These decals are 1/48 scale, but getting back on topic ... hopefully they will also be available in 1/72 for our Hasegawa and FineMolds Phantoms!! Gene K 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT7567 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 On 2/11/2021 at 2:15 AM, Scout712 said: Hhm, it looks more like a mixture between an AGM-12 and an AGM-53. Michael I think you're being fooled by an optical illusion: there are two AGM-12s in the photo, staggered one behind the other. The viewpoint of the camera has them lined up *almost* perfectly one behind the other, such that it looks like a single missile with an elongated body and tandem pairs of main wings. But if you look closely, you'll see the forward missile is visibly below the one behind it (most notable along the top line of the missile bodies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout712 Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 Yes, you are right. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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