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Dutch Air Force F-104g Suu-21/A bomb pod


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Hi There

I recently came across a picture on one of my decal sheet of a Dutch F-104g of 311 Sqn carrying a Suu-21/A bomb dispenser I didn't no this bomb dispenser was carried by the Dutch F-104g normally they where seen carrying the dual rocket/bomb pod,the aircraft is serial No D-8244 and the picture was taken in June 1977, would anyone please no I have only seen this one picture.

 

Kind Regards

Craig

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2 hours ago, typhoon1 said:

Hi There

I recently came across a picture on one of my decal sheet of a Dutch F-104g of 311 Sqn carrying a Suu-21/A bomb dispenser I didn't no this bomb dispenser was carried by the Dutch F-104g normally they where seen carrying the dual rocket/bomb pod,the aircraft is serial No D-8244 and the picture was taken in June 1977, would anyone please no I have only seen this one picture.

 

Kind Regards

Craig

Sorry I don't understand your post. Can you be more specific about what you are asking about?

 

Selwyn

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Sorry Selwyn was asking if the suu-21A bomb dispenser was carried by Dutch F-104s I've only seen one picture of one been carried wondering if anyone had some more photos.

 

Cheers 

Craig

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I have never seen one on a 311 / 312 Squadron F-104G.  These were used on a daily basis by the Belgian and Germany-based Canadian units, however - perhaps one was borrowed during an exercise or squadron exchange..?

 

Cheers,

 

Andre (busy doing your scans)

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Cheers Andre the actual shot is on Modeldecal sheet No43 was curious never seen one carried on Dutch F-104 could have been borrowed.

Take care

Craig

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The CF-104 carried the MN-1A which was very similar to the SUU-21, if the Dutch F-104s carried the pod they would have had the switch to open the pod doors, it was on the right console, the lower right in this pic:

 

10866093_10152600482446128_2628735779111

 

Jari

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13 hours ago, typhoon1 said:

Hi There

I recently came across a picture on one of my decal sheet of a Dutch F-104g of 311 Sqn carrying a Suu-21/A bomb dispenser I didn't no this bomb dispenser was carried by the Dutch F-104g normally they where seen carrying the dual rocket/bomb pod,the aircraft is serial No D-8244 and the picture was taken in June 1977, would anyone please no I have only seen this one picture.

 

I checked the photo on Modeldecal No 43, and I don't think it's a SUU-21. The nose is slightly rounded and too long, and the diameter of the cilindrical section looks a tad too big to my eye, and the tail has the wrong shape too. I would guess it's an improvised travel pod.

 

The other photos are interesting too from a stores viewpoint. The TF-104 next to D-8244 has bombs under the pylons, and they look like AN-M65s to me. That's a configuration that I had never seen before. Roughly at that time 311 and 312 went from pure nuclear strike tasking to combined strike and conventional attack. The M65 was taken over from the F-84F that was being phased out at the same time.

 

Rob

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11 hours ago, Rob de Bie said:

The other photos are interesting too from a stores viewpoint. The TF-104 next to D-8244 has bombs under the pylons, and they look like AN-M65s to me. That's a configuration that I had never seen before. Roughly at that time 311 and 312 went from pure nuclear strike tasking to combined strike and conventional attack. The M65 was taken over from the F-84F that was being phased out at the same time.

 

I found another photo of D-5803 with M65s on the pylon, in Van Gent's 'De Starfighter' from 1986, page 85. It shows the aircraft more from the side, better showing the bomb contour. I built the pair below for a 1/48 F-84F project, made by IsraCast.

 

spacer.png

 

I haven't found a photo of a Dutch 104 with a SUU-21 so far. But the RNLAF did have a few of these pods I believe, since there are photos of Dutch Streaks with them. They were only used by strike units as far as I know.

 

Rob

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26 minutes ago, typhoon1 said:

Thank you for that information Rob never seen a suu-21 carried by a Dutch F-84

Neither have I. Any change you could post a photo of that?

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According to my resources, we carried practice bombs on an R-3 auxilary rack on our Dutch Streaks.

 

I see no mention of the SUU -21 being in general use. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

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12 minutes ago, Creepy Pete said:

Neither have I. Any change you could post a photo of that?

 

There's a photo of one on page 32 of the "Dutch Profile' on the F-84F. For the rest: I looked in my archives but I haven't located another. They were either rarely used, or they were rarely photographed. The latter is a serious option, since 311 and 312 sqn Streaks were notoriously camera-shy.


Rob

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3 minutes ago, Rob de Bie said:

 

There's a photo of one on page 32 of the "Dutch Profile' on the F-84F.

Looking at that reference, I can't see it myself on p.32. Is it on one of the three on top of the page..?

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

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1 hour ago, Hook said:

According to my resources, we carried practice bombs on an R-3 auxilary rack on our Dutch Streaks.

 

I see no mention of the SUU -21 being in general use.

Correct: not in general use. But a few were obtained when the strike tasking was introduced. And only for the camera-shy strike squadrons. You won't find that many photos of their asymmetric stores layout either. Luuk Boerman made a special effort to find 311/312 photos for his Dutch Profile, and he had a hard time finding them.

 

I've been researching F-84F stores for 2-3 years now, and I'm pretty sure I have seen almost everything there is to find. Here's the almost-finished result of that. All stores have magnets so you can build up any desired stores configuration in seconds.

 

f84f-91.jpg

 

f84f-33.jpg

 

Rob

Edited by Rob de Bie
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4 minutes ago, Hook said:

Looking at that reference, I can't see it myself on p.32. Is it on one of the three on top of the page..?

 

Look again at the largest picture at the bottom of the page..

 

Rob

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I found one more photo of a SUU-21A - F-84F combination: page 276 of Hub Groeneveld's book 'Thunderstreaks en Thunderflashes in Nederland'. On page 254 the same photo as reported earlier is also shown. Two photos in a 388 page book gives a rough idea of the usage of these bomb dispensers.

 

Another snippet: I've seen them called MN-1 in RNLAF documents, not SUU-21, which was probably a slighty later (re-)designation. In a F-105 loading diagram I also saw MN-1 being used.

 

Rob

Edited by Rob de Bie
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10 hours ago, Rob de Bie said:

I found one more photo of a SUU-21A - F-84F combination: page 276 of Hub Groeneveld's book 'Thunderstreaks en Thunderflashes in Nederland'. On page 254 the same photo as reported earlier is also shown. Two photos in a 388 page book gives a rough idea of the usage of these bomb dispensers.

 

Another snippet: I've seen them called MN-1 in RNLAF documents, not SUU-21, which was probably a slighty later (re-)designation. In a F-105 loading diagram I also saw MN-1 being used.

 

Rob

 

If I've understood the history of this system right, MN-1 was a Canadian designation and /or variant of the SUU-21 pod.

As I believe the MN-1 was built in Canada, I don't know if the dispenser was designed in Canada and later introduced in US service or the opposite

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12 hours ago, Rob de Bie said:

 

Look again at the largest picture at the bottom of the page.. (....) page 276 of Hub Groeneveld's book 'Thunderstreaks en Thunderflashes in Nederland'. On page 254 the same photo as reported earlier is also shown.

 

 

I must have a different edition than yours  then! - on my 2020 version of the F/RF-84F Dutch Profile , the bottom of p.32 shows a camouflaged 312 Squadron P-167 with practice bombs on an R-3 rack. I did find the pic you describe in the Hub Groeneveld book. 

 

Incidentally, I spotted some good diagrams in this thread: 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

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1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

 

If I've understood the history of this system right, MN-1 was a Canadian designation and /or variant of the SUU-21 pod.

As I believe the MN-1 was built in Canada, I don't know if the dispenser was designed in Canada and later introduced in US service or the opposite

 

The MN-1A was a bit cropped / shortened compared to the SUU-21, in order to fit on the centreline of the CF-104D Mk 2 with its forward retracting nose wheel.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre 

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4 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

If I've understood the history of this system right, MN-1 was a Canadian designation and /or variant of the SUU-21 pod.

As I believe the MN-1 was built in Canada, I don't know if the dispenser was designed in Canada and later introduced in US service or the opposite

 

We have to stop repeating this misunderstanding! The USAF designated the pod MN-1 and MN-1A. You can find multiple original USAF documents that show this. I mentioned the official F-105 loading diagram, I found a test report, there are references to mil standards, mishaps reports, and so on.

 

My best guess is that the MN-1 / MN-1A was redesignated within USAF to SUU-21 in 1962, at the time when all designations were standardised (like the Navy aircraft that went from F4H to F-4, AD to A-1, etc). My other guess is that the RCAF / CAF did not go along, and kept calling them MN-1 until the end of use, If the latter is true, it created the effect that we see now, with people thinking MN-1 was the Canadian designation.

 

Fairey Aviation did indeed license-build the MN-1 in Canada. I think that 'Machine Products Company' from Albuquerque was the original US supplier.

 

Rob

Edited by Rob de Bie
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2 hours ago, Hook said:

 

I must have a different edition than yours  then! - on my 2020 version of the F/RF-84F Dutch Profile , the bottom of p.32 shows a camouflaged 312 Squadron P-167 with practice bombs on an R-3 rack. I did find the pic you describe in the Hub Groeneveld book.

 

Ah, yes, mine is the 2014 original version. I bought mine straight from Luuk Boerman, when it was already sold out everywhere. He found some old stock in his attic.

 

Rob

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The US Navy had the Aero 8A Practice Bomb Container which was a variant of the SUU-21/MN-1 and carried 8 practice bombs:

 

a5a-2.jpg

 

Jari

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5 hours ago, Rob de Bie said:

 

Ah, yes, mine is the 2014 original version. I bought mine straight from Luuk Boerman, when it was already sold out everywhere. He found some old stock in his attic.

That would explain it!

 

@Jari: great pic, I had never seen a relative to the SUU-21/MN-1 on a USN bird.

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41 minutes ago, Finn said:

The US Navy had the Aero 8A Practice Bomb Container which was a variant of the SUU-21/MN-1 and carried 8 practice bombs:

 

a5a-2.jpg

 

Jari

 

Thanks! I did not know a Navy version existed as well. It suits the A-5 well 🙂

 

I found this Naval Airborne Ordnance online book describing the Aero 8A-1, and it says it contains four bomb ejector mechanism and two weapon simulators.

 

Rob

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3 hours ago, Rob de Bie said:

 

Thanks! I did not know a Navy version existed as well. It suits the A-5 well 🙂

 

I found this Naval Airborne Ordnance online book describing the Aero 8A-1, and it says it contains four bomb ejector mechanism and two weapon simulators.

 

Rob

 

You are right as it carried only 4 bombs per pod, the info here:

 

http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/A-5A_Vigilante_SAC_-_1_July_1967.pdf

 

said 8 but that is for 2 pods. Here is another pic:

 

A3J-2_Vigilante_with_weapon_load_display

 

Jari

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