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Totally messed up my Mk lV Stirling, need to start again. Any advice would be appreciated !


Tyke
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I started an Italeri Mk lV Stirling about a month ago and I'm afraid I'm going to have to give up on it. These are some of my mistakes ; paint where it shouldn't have been so some components haven't stuck properly so a window has fallen out from inside the fuselage and something else has come loose so it's rattling about inside, one of the tail wheels has come out. Didn't read the instructions properly so the engines and nacelles haven't been assembled correctly. I decided to glue the bomb bay doors closed and it looks terrible. Some of the paint I used was enamel and some acrylic. They reacted with each other.....that's when I gave up on it.

But I'm not going to be defeated so I'm going to buy another one and try and get it right this time.

 

1. Can anybody recommend a 'beginners' paint spray kit, not too expensive because I'm sure this would give a better finish than brushes.

2. Is it best to paint upper and lower wing surfaces and fuselage sides separately first, before assembly ?

3. The glue I got from the model shop was in a container much like the mrs's nail varnish, so the brush splashed far too much glue around. I need to find a better way of applying the glue. 

 

Thanks 

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36 minutes ago, Tyke said:

1. Can anybody recommend a 'beginners' paint spray kit, not too expensive because I'm sure this would give a better finish than brushes.

2. Is it best to paint upper and lower wing surfaces and fuselage sides separately first, before assembly ?

3. The glue I got from the model shop was in a container much like the mrs's nail varnish, so the brush splashed far too much glue around. I need to find a better way of applying the glue. 

 

Airbrush recommendation would obviously depend on how much you want to spend - and while it can give a better finish, there are still techniques to be acquired, particularly around usage and paint mixes, etc.  So simply 'buying an airbrush' may not necessarily give you the improvement you are looking for.

 

Some parts can be usefully painted before full assembly (cockpit, landing gear, etc), but major sections like wings or fuselage are (in my opinion) best painted once assembled.  Just mask the areas you don't want painted.

 

You don't say what glue you are using, but brush-on adhesives like Tamiya extra thin or similar are generally pretty good (IMO, much better and more useful than the tube-based stuff).  'Splashing around' just sounds like you are putting way too much on, but it's not really clear from how you describe it.  

 

Your Sterling might still be redeemable - someone with more knowledge than me on Sterling kits would be able to comment further, perhaps.  Finally, the solution to 'not reading the instructions properly' is going to be: 'read the instructions properly' - or 'RTFM' as the old saying goes... ;) 

 

 

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That's a pity, the Italeri MkIV is the best option of their Stirlings.

 

I've painted all my Stirlings using rattle cans with BluTac to mask off the cammo. Halfords matt black in fact gives a very slight satin sheen and is pretty resilient to handling

 

cheers

 

John

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38 minutes ago, Tyke said:

The glue I got from the model shop was in a container much like the mrs's nail varnish, so the brush splashed far too much glue around. I need to find a better way of applying the glue. 

 

A better tool would be a set of Microbrushes like these sold but our own @Duncan B 

 

45 minutes ago, Tyke said:

But I'm not going to be defeated so I'm going to buy another one and try and get it right this time.

 

Good thinking, if you're new to the darkside hobby it might be an idea to buy a smaller kit at the same time (Airfix offer some very nice single and twin engine second world war types) and use that the practice some of your techniques on before embarking in another Sterling.

 

HTH

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Thanks for the reply. I’ve been using the Tamaya glue which comes with a brush similar size to a nail brush. I was thinking of getting the Revell Contacta professional glue instead.

 

Do you think it would be better to assemble the whole wing, undercarriage etc, paint that and then attach to the fuselage , because the Stirling paint line between black and camo goes midway between the centre line and top of the wing making it tricky to mask off.

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4 minutes ago, Tyke said:

Thanks for the reply. I’ve been using the Tamaya glue which comes with a brush similar size to a nail brush. I was thinking of getting the Revell Contacta professional glue instead.

 

Do you think it would be better to assemble the whole wing, undercarriage etc, paint that and then attach to the fuselage , because the Stirling paint line between black and camo goes midway between the centre line and top of the wing making it tricky to mask off.

 

It might be an idea to get some Contacta as well - you'll probably find it's easier to use a liquid glue to assemble some of the smaller parts and Contacta for some of the more substantial parts.

 

It's not an "out of the box" build but this WIP  thread might give you some ideas about the best way to assemble your kit.

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Most people seem to like airbrushes and they probably have their advantages but personally I always use spray cans. No cleaning up needed or filling and that kind of thing, so much easier and they do give a nice smooth finish. 

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Getting the Revell Contacta with needle applicator is a good plan, but even that can be a bit eager to get onto your plastic.  If you're going to stick with brush application then get yourself some micro brushes rather than the floor mops that usually come with/in bottled solvents.

 

You don't necessarily need an airbrush for a decent finish, a decent quality flat brush will give a beautifully smooth finish if your paint's been thinned correctly; somewhere between full fat and semi-skimmed milk is about right.  Use a good primer too, Halfords plastic primer is quite well recommended (I still use Humbrol 1 but some of the newer batches haven't been so good).

 

If you get paint on mating surfaces gentle use of a file, wet n dry paper, scalpel blade, sanding sticks or similar kit will get it off, but let it dry first.

 

Italeri didn't make it easy for us on the Stirling by having us install the main undercarriage before assembling the wings.  I've been trying to work out a method of getting the legs on after assembly, but as I've cocked up the additional detailing I've been trying to add the project's tales at present.  On most RAF night bombers wheel bays and weapons bays were Night in any case so ovespray into these areas of the underside colour shouldn't cause mega grief with crunchy bits.

 

General practice on RAF night bombers/glider tugs is to paint the upper surfaces first, starting with the Dark Earth and mask them off before applying the Night side and under surface finish.  You might need to trim your masking around the wing root area, use a new scalpel blade and go gently.

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I only use the "tube" glue for substantial parts such as wing to fuselage and have been using EMA from a bottle for years (basically the same as Tamiya) but as it only has a normal cap I use an old or cheap small paint brush and once the parts are a hairs breadth apart use the brush to let the glue find it's own path through capillary action, dries faster too.

I do have a airbrush but use it for larger items and preferably to do everything at once, cleaning up is the bind for me. Even if you get an airbrush you still need the compressor as the cans aren't really much good and expensive for what they do

I'm getting back into the hobby after finally sorting my house out and I'm still very much old school, enamels mainly and in my opinion I'd rather use masking tape and a steady hand than painting sub assemblies and then finding I've got to scrape the paint off the parts which need a spot of glue, EMA is a damn good paint stripper!! 

Keep at it, when you get there the satisfaction will be even greater than if you just breezed through it with no problems, every modeller has to have a certain amount of masochism in them!!!

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IMHO a better alternative to Tamiya Extra Thin is Gunze Mr Cement SP.  The smell is pretty rank, but I have found it gives far stronger joints and as it gets to work instantly, has better grab qualities. It has a similar consistency to the Tamiya a stuff, so works by capillary action just as well.

 

I doubt there are many models that can’t  be rescued, but I guess it depends how much work you want to put into it. Given the cost of the kit, I’d be tempted to give it a go.

 

Paintjobs can always be sanded back using wet’n’dry. I’ve had to do this a good many times and I suspect  that a fair few of us have had to do this, no matter how experienced we are. Small windows that have gone AWOL can be replaced using Krystal Kleer or similar.

 

Unless there’s a real advantage, I thinks it’s best to paint the majority of the model after construction. Some sub assemblies and the interior are more convenient to paint before adding. You might find that on more complicated paintjobs, such as fuselage cheatlines, it is easier to mask and paint those areas before adding the wings, etc, but expect to blend the paintwork in afterwards.

 

As you’ve discovered, it pays to study the instructions thoroughly, but it’s even more important to dry-fit everything first. You way well discover a better way of assembling things. You may even discover errors in the instructions. That happens more frequently than you might imagine.


Good luck! 

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Thanks for all the replies chaps, some great advice there.

 

I think I'm going to try and rescue the situation first before I start again with a new model. I'm keen to do the Mk lV Stirling because it's what my dad used to fly with 570 Sqdn at Rivenhall.

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The temptation to save time by painting parts separately when their join line happens to be a paint demarcation is very strong. Resist it and overcome it, it's a recipe for far more hassle than it's worth in the long term. My motto is always build more, as much as possible, before painting. Unless a part would physically block you painting another, attach it first then paint everything after. Obviously paint internals first, but once I've "closed up" an aircraft build the only things I leave off for painting are wheels, props/spinners and external weapons/stores. Anything else can be masked. Tamiya 6mm masking tape is great for straight lines. For complex canopies, you can buy pre-cut masking sets that are worth their weight in gold.

 

You can get a good finish with brushes but it requires practice with thinning, and good quality soft flat brushes. Humbrol's own are actually pretty decent, artist ones are even better (and actually cheaper).

 

Always prime if you're using Acrylics. Some acrylics are designed for brush painting and some are horrible. You didn't say what paints you were using, but if your acrylics were Tamiya as well... forget about brush painting them. Humbrol and Revell ones are ideal for brush users.

Edited by Vlad
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5 minutes ago, Vlad said:

The temptation to save time by painting parts separately when their join line happens to be a paint demarcation is very strong. Resist it and overcome it, it's a recipe for far more hassle than it's worth in the long term. My motto is always build more, as much as possible, before painting. Unless a part would physically block you painting another, attach it first then paint everything after. Obviously paint internals first, but once I've "closed up" an aircraft build the only things I leave off for painting are wheels and external weapons/stores. Anything else can be masked. Tamiya 6mm masking tape is great for straight lines. For complex canopies, you can buy pre-cut masking sets that are worth their weight in gold.

 

You can get a good finish with brushes but it requires practice with thinning, and good quality soft flat brushes. Humbrol's own are actually pretty decent, artist ones are even better (and actually cheaper).

 

Always prime if you're using Acrylics. Some acrylics are designed for brush painting and some are horrible. You didn't say what paints you were using, but if your acrylics were Tamiya as well... forget about brush painting them. Humbrol and Revell ones are ideal for brush users.

 

 

Yes, I was brush painting with Tamaya acrylics but I've got some Humbrol paints now.

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I never built a Stirling kit, do cannot really help with the specifics, but experience tells me this:

As others have mentioned, liquid cements can go a long way and need to be applied with care. I tend to use different types depending on what I am doing, but that is just me. One major point is that the stuff you use on kits is a solvent, it binds the plastic parts by meting the surface it has been applied to. If paint is in the way it will not work or produce a weak bond. I find the brushes in the Tamiya Extra Thin Cements fairly fine and Plastic Magic has a fine brush which is also  available seperately 

Instructions, even after 50 odd years of 'serious' model building, I still take notice of what the manufacturer says. You have found out the hard way. 

Paint. I used to use enamels, but for a variety of reasons use acrylics now. Tamiya is not good for brushing in my experience for any large areas. Acrylics as has been stated, work best over a primer as they often do not take well to base plastic. Halfords or Hycote plastic primer works well so long as you do not go mad spraying thick coats on. They often need multiple coats and resist the temptation to try and put paint on thickly. As in all paint a couple of thin coats are better than a one thick one. I use both brush and airbrush painting and both need a bit of practice. 

The one most useful thing in modelling to have is patience. Taking time and thinking is a good way to produce a model you are happy with. You sound fairly new to the game and it takes a bit of practice to build up skills. At 66, I still find new ways of doing things as new techniques and materials etc appear. Do not be overly disheartened when things go wrong, at best it can be sorted and at worst you can put it down to experience, it is after all only a hobby. 

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If you can find a model club in Leeds with a few experienced members you would be well advised to join it. You are bound to learn some useful things and, in time, will be able to sort wheat from chaff.

I found the Italeri plastic did not always bond well so washing it is probably a good idea - it may have just been my build though. There may be something useful in it....

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234965440-italeri-stirling/

It came out okay in the end

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234977042-italeri-stirling/

 

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OK chaps, in my original post I was thinking of giving up and buying a new Italeri Stirling.

Thankfully I decided to persevere and it’s now 95% complete. It wouldn’t win any prizes at a modelling competition but I’m happy enough with it .

Having got so far I don’t want to cock it up at this stage, so a last couple of questions.

 

1. Do I apply the lacquer/varnish before or after the decals.

2. Any recommendations for lacquer/varnish?

 It’ll have to be applied with a brush.

 

PS do the red spinners look naff !

 

Mk lV Stirling

 

Mk lV Stirling

 

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Many people use Future (or equivalent) floor polish before the decals. It can be applied in thin coats with a pastry brush or artist's brush until you get a shine. Then apply the decals. Then apply a semi-matt coat using whatever other people might recommend, avoiding the canopies! Yes, the red spinners look crappy!

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Clear gloss coat before applying decals, followed by a final coat of satin or matt clear coat, depending on the desired or most appropriate Sterling finish.  As Ed says above, something like Future or Klear usually works very well as a gloss coat.  The stuff I use is called Pledge Multi Surface Floor polish, which I believe is just another incarnation of the above.  Alternatively, something from the Windsor & Newton range of clear coats would also be worth looking at. 

 

Red spinners - I'm not a fan, but then it would depend on if the a/c you are modelling had red spinners or not.  If it did, then great - if it didn't, then no.

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That looks like a good first attempt and you are doing the right thing by ploughing on. Once finished it will be  a library for you to revisit and remember your odd mistake, and like most mistakes they help us learn.

Also, look at it and note what you did well, this will give confidence and rebalance some of the slip ups from earlier.

I am always making mistakes, look at my Sea Kings build thread, I melted half of the airframe but I recovered it. There were more but that is for another day...😜

And as for painting.......!

 

Keep up the good work.

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Finished it, but don’t look to close !

Quite happy with it seeing as the last time I built a model , was a Dogfight Double about 55 years ago !

Got the registration from Xtradecal so I could model my dad’s aircraft V8-L from 570 Sqdn. Rivenhall.

I think I need to ‘dirty it up’ a little, any suggestions?

Thanks for all your help chaps

 

Stirling V8-L Stirling V8-L Stirling V8-L

 

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  • 2 months later...

A great looking Stirling and tribute to your father.  I'm glad you persevered with it.  With regards to weathering I think there are many techniques which modellers use.  For my part I tend to go by the adage that less is more as it is easy to 'ever-weather' a model in my opinion.  I use a silver pencil for adding chips to the paintwork, mainly around panel lines which would have been frequently removed and replaced by the ground crew i.e. around the engines and any access hatches, as well foreign object damage to the leading edges of the wings, tail and propellors.  I find a silver pencil works quite nicely compared to small dabs of silver paint.  Whenever I have used silver  paint it tends to look 'painted on' which, of course, it is but not the effect I am looing for.  Exhaust staining is another area you might like to consider.  I think the trail of exhaust gases was quite destinctive on the Stirling, running over the top of the wings behind the 'hedgehog' exhaust pipes.  Airbrushing definitely works the best for this but in the absence of such a tool you could try dry brushing.  Find an old brush which has seen better days, apply to paint (a pale grey), remove nearly all the paint on a tissue or similar until only a slight residue is left then lighly apply to the area you want it.  Always brush in the direction of the airflow and apply gently, graudually building it up until you have achieved the requird amount.  Hope that helps.

 

P.S.  The brush doesn't usually survice this exercise !

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Posted (edited)

For creating exhaust stains I really recommend using ground up chalk pastels. A set of white, grey, black and brown should be sufficient for the beginning. Simply scrape some powder from the pastel with the edge of a knife and brush it on, best to be done on a matt or slightly satin surface. Big advantage (especially if you just make your first steps regarding weathering) is that this method is very forgiving. If you screw up, you can just clean it off and start again.

Be aware that if you don't seal the pastels with a clear coat you should not touch them again as this would rub them off. For this reason, applying clear by brush over them may not be advisable.

 

Cheers

Markus

Edited by Shorty84
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