Jump to content

Covid Jab


DMC

Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, noelh said:

It's hard to believe but there you are

I get it - the development and roll out of this vaccine was very quick ... uniquely so. For anyone familiar with the usual prolonged testing period normally applied to medications this must seem strange - even suspicious.

 

I initially had my doubts largely due to lack of information as to how such an accelerated rollout was achieved - I think that has now been pretty well explained (parallel testing programs, set up of production before final results (a bit of a gamble which would not normally be done). This information was slow to come out - the powers that be should have been more open and communicative during the testing and development process to allay suspicion. I suspect that having promised a vaccine, - and invested so much money - the government was reluctant to suggest the possibility it could fail at the last hurdle. This may have been a reasonable decision in terms of public morale at the time, but the consequence can now be seen in problems with uptake.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm back from my incidence with a needle, and apart from a very mild "punched arm" feeling, I'm ok.  Having a bit of trouble seeing on my left side, but I'm sure I'll get used to the new head eventually :shrug: A new meaning to the phrase "double ugly" 😢

  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Second Pfizer jab yesterday - on cue 12 hours later I started feeling like I had the flu. First chills, then sore joints and body aches. Just like what the nurse told me to expect. But this means the vaccine is doing its job, and my immune system is in overdrive. Woo hoo!    :)

 

Cheers,

Bill

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 25/02/2021 at 08:50, ckw said:

I get it - the development and roll out of this vaccine was very quick ... uniquely so. For anyone familiar with the usual prolonged testing period normally applied to medications this must seem strange - even suspicious.

 

I initially had my doubts largely due to lack of information as to how such an accelerated rollout was achieved - I think that has now been pretty well explained (parallel testing programs, set up of production before final results (a bit of a gamble which would not normally be done). This information was slow to come out - the powers that be should have been more open and communicative during the testing and development process to allay suspicion. I suspect that having promised a vaccine, - and invested so much money - the government was reluctant to suggest the possibility it could fail at the last hurdle. This may have been a reasonable decision in terms of public morale at the time, but the consequence can now be seen in problems with uptake.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

I am in complete agreement with that view. I am a former NHS Clinical Scientist, although not in this field, and as a breed, while often personally excited by innovation, professionally we are inherently conservative and suspicious . In terms of research the scientific method requires a level of scepticism bordering on abuse - conferences can be quite exciting! That's scepticism not gullibility. For many reasons conspiracy theories have much less to commend them.

 

I too had questions, did a bit of thinking and reading around things and drew similar conclusions to you. New Scientist did some very good work . Trusted journalism aimed at the educated lay person like me. I did read some other views of lesser provenance and found them very "interesting"**

 

As you say a lot of things were able to be done in parallel this time. The reason they aren't usually done like that is because new drugs do fail and the companies don't want to spend money on steps 1,2,3 & 4 at the same time as if step 2 fails the money was wasted on steps 3 & 4.  This is a war footing were you chuck money at everything in the knowledge some will stick. 

 

The truth is that we are only a couple of months into this and there are possibly effects of the vaccine that have not yet manifested themselves. That's not usually the case for vaccines - they tend to fail on efficacy not safety. However aside from the devastating current pandemic there are certainly long term effects of Covid19 and they are not all clinical. In the course of my work I speak to senior people on the front line of this and even those working in A&E and acute medical wards consistently talk about the epidemic of mental health and the consequences of delayed treatment that is to follow this immediate crisis. The greatest effect of this virus on health might turn out to be socio economical and, as usual, it will disproportionately affect the poorest and most deprived people and countries in each in each community and the world. It is ironic and both baffling but also in some respects understandable, if not excusable, why they are some of the most "hesitant".

 

My personal risk / benefit analysis is that not only is it to my overall benefit to take the opportunity of an offered vaccine but I also have a responsibility to those that either cannot have it or will not have access to it. As well as those who have the vaccine but for who it offers no or lesser protection for whatever reason. I'm less happy to do this for those who are wilfully obstructive to the programme or who decide that they'll ride the "herd immunity" bus and let others do the lifting.

 

I'm on beach against a cliff and the tide is coming in. I'm not completely sure what's going to be at the top of the cliff but on past experience and knowledge I'm banking on it most likely being a friendly herd of cows and less likely to be a big angry dog. I'm climbing the cliff.

 

 

**

I've also ended up down a fascinating rabbit hole of a theory that nuclear weapons and nuclear reactors are all a hoax. I'm now wondering where on earth our radio-isotopes for cancer treatment amongst other things came from? I have had to conclude they were in fact "magic beans" else why did we keep them in a lead box other than to stop the "magic" leaking out?

Edited by Pigpen
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Had the Pfizer jab on Saturday - Sore arm as expected but then achey from Sunday afternoon.

 

I just put that down to all the strenuous activity / stretching and bending that was required to wash my car...

 

IanJ

 

PS - Magnificently organised vaccination operation! - Hopefully the politicians won't attempt to take the glory, but give it to those who have worked "At the coal face," so to speak. 

 

IanJ 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My wife had her first jab. No side effects yet except a sudden craving for chocolate and wine. Hmm🤔

 

But several of her staff who got it yesterday reported in sick today. It seems the younger staff are most effected. 

 

It was the Astra Zenica vaccination which apparently isn't popular in Germany because of scaremongering in the media. 

 

Good contribution from Pigpen. Nicely sums it up. 

 

This made me laugh:

" I've also ended up down a fascinating rabbit hole of a theory that nuclear weapons and nuclear reactors are all a hoax." 

 

The best worst conspiracy theory I came across was one that claimed there were no V2 attacks on London in WW2. It was all a hoax. Well no one ever saw one coming? 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a weird night of sleep last night, but wasn't nasty to my dad like my mum was after hers. :o  It's hard to describe, but I felt like I'd been wide awake (a rarity) whilst asleep.  I'm no more tired than usual though, and feel pretty normal for me today, so it was probably just a freaky dream seconds before I woke up. :)

  • Confused 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Bonhoff said:

PS - Magnificently organised vaccination operation!

You are not kidding! I was both personally and professionally impressed when I got mine. (Shout out to Birmingham Kid's Hospital)

 

The government got it right twice. They ordered far more vaccines than were needed from a variety of suppliers in the expectation that perhaps 1/3 of them would be useful. It's not right to criticise them for "over ordering" or wasting money - hindsight is a wonderful lens.

 

Secondly they handed the vaccine programme over to the NHS, took guidance on priorities from an expert group and for the most part have not meddled. The scale and quality of delivery of this continues to astonish me -  and so many people have done this alongside their day jobs. There is a truism in warfare that armchair generals study strategy, but professionals study logistics. The NHS is the worlds fifth largest employer - they know an awful lot about centralised logistics delivered through a distributed structure. 

 

We got a lot wrong. We got this bit right. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Didn't you know?  Atom bombs only explode when that are dropped on the intersection of ley lines.  You can find where these are by plotting UFO flight paths.

Apparently nuclear power stations are a front to produce the "product" for Chemtrails. The evidence for this is that they use power from the grid to run their systems rather than power from their own generators so they can't be generating electricity. Of course, when the turbo alternator fails they send a bloke out with a crank handle to turn the primary circuit feed pump.

 

Fascinating to read some of these conspiracy sites, but go for the occasional reality check by listening to the wonderful Infinite Monkey Cage's take on this at https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000dfqn

 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, noelh said:

The best worst conspiracy theory I came across was one that claimed there were no V2 attacks on London in WW2. It was all a hoax.

Presumably this is based on the government line at the time - the public were told they were gas main explosions as it was feared the idea of rocket attacks would cause panic. Government had to admit they were rockets a couple of months later ... or were they?:)

 

Cheers

 

Colin

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, ckw said:

Presumably this is based on the government line at the time - the public were told they were gas main explosions as it was feared the idea of rocket attacks would cause panic. Government had to admit they were rockets a couple of months later ... or were they?:)

 

Cheers

 

Colin

Naughty! But actually this is sensible debate and these conspiracy theories often have a grain of truth which is misunderstood and extrapolated out of all proportion. The original "power stations" were a front for the production of weapons grade fissionable material and any electricity surplus was incidental so when real power stations came on line it was rational to be cynical. The irony is that we are now struggling to get some of the material needed for radioisotope thermoelectric generators and medical purposes because they were bi products of weapons production and have to synthesise them in accelerators at extraordinary cost. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/26/2021 at 11:25 PM, ckw said:

Presumably this is based on the government line at the time - the public were told they were gas main explosions as it was feared the idea of rocket attacks would cause panic. Government had to admit they were rockets a couple of months later ... or were they?:)

 Seem to recall reading that there was a lot of justifiable misinformation about both V1 and V2 attacks to give the impression that their targeting was way-off so that any adjustments might have them dropping on less populated areas.

 

As regards the comment about the Oxford Astra Zenica vaccination, was  in a breakout room char the other night after some church business on Zoom with about a dozen of us , all of pension age , talking about our vaccination experiences and three had experienced being really lying down unwell the following day or two with quite extreme flu/cold symptoms and al lthree  had been given the Astra Zenica jag although one or two other who had also had it felt neither up nor down much the same as those like my wife and I who had the Pfizer.     Hardly a conclusive scientific survey but did strike me as odd among such a small sample.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Random effects are just that.  I know three AZ receivers who have had only minor aches/nothing.  The percentages of various reactions have been given.

 

Very much so , and those affected readily agreed that even their relatively brief discomfort was by far preferable to the potential alternatives of not being vaccinated and are hoping for as little delay as possible in getting their second round.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Had my first on Thursday, got text out of the blue and booked appointment 5 mins later, didn't hesitate. I am 50 but have lung condition so assume that bumped me up the list, I didn't need to be asked twice!

 

Had the AZ jab, sore arm and a bit flu like the next day but gone with some paracetamol.

 

Colin    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, IanHx said:

Happy for all you that have been offered one.

Although supposedly qualifying for group 6, have still heard nada.....

Might be worth contacting your GP. A colleague who should probably have been in Four, certainly Six if not, had slipped through the cracks somehow, and they got him booked in a couple of days after he queried it with them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, wombat said:

Might be worth contacting your GP. A colleague who should probably have been in Four, certainly Six if not, had slipped through the cracks somehow, and they got him booked in a couple of days after he queried it with them.

sounds about right...  nice helpful lady on 119 said check again next week, if still not on list call your GP.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 28/02/2021 at 18:50, Graham Boak said:

Random effects are just that.  I know three AZ receivers who have had only minor aches/nothing.  The percentages of various reactions have been given.

Exactly. Small data sets are more likely to exibit clustering. Big numbers smooth it out which is why we like to drawn conclusions from larger sample sizes. Individual experiences are an important part of the data but are not to be extrapolated from.

 

However in our family sample of four the three who had the Pfizer had nothing but a sore arm and the one who had astra zeneca was ill for the evening +24hrs. Not statistically significant. But.....

 

However the consensus was "at least I know mine's working" ! 😀

Edited by Pigpen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My wife had the AZ jab. She had a slightly uncomfortable night but is fine now. Same with her staff who have all had one shot so far. 

 

I see in the UK 60-65 year olds are next up. I think that covers quite a few Britmodellers. 

 

But no sign for me yet. 

 

But it seems case's are falling, less people in hospital. No thanks to idiots who think having big house or street parties is a good idea or going to go unnoticed. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...