Oh for the wings of a... Wapiti (assistance required)

[hendie]

In the absence of a Westland Wapiti in 1/48 scale from any of the mainstream manufacturers (Rest models lived up to their name and took a long one, and Dora Wings reneged on their original promise of a 1/48 one), and coming to a forced stall on a number of my own builds in lockdown, I decided it was time to metaphorically remove the digit and create one myself.  The final goal being: if I can create a convincing Wapiti in 3D I can print it myself

I've been researching (term used lightly) for  a number of years and been looking for any useable drawings etc of which there appear to be precious little.  Thankfully, @dogsbody came to the rescue and provided a very useful scan of the Granger drawing.

Now while this was incredibly useful, it was missing some key ingredients.  The cross sections in the drawing don't always match up with geometry changes in the profile, so I have had to interpolate some information based on photos and any other information I can get my hands on.  Add to that the fact that the plan is in bitmap format and not a vector drawing, makes the whole thing a tad more difficult.

 

Now, bear in mind this is very early days and there's still a lot of work to be done here, but I think I have the beginnings of a Wapiti taking shape.

 

 

As I said, this is still very early days.  This is actually my second attempt - my first attempt being more of a brute force approach to see if I could could make the forms required. 

Piece by piece the airframe is constructed and for the most part, it's straightforward. 

I know this will never be perfect, but I'm trying to get as close to a Wapiti as I can given my limited capabilities. 

The main issue I am facing as that of the plan being in bitmap format. - My process is to use the bitmap as a background and trace over features and profiles etc.  For the most part this works fine, especially where I have confirmed dimensions, but where I am struggling is with the wings.

 

 

As you can see here - when I zoom in close enough to see enough detail to trace over, the bitmap image is very pixelated.

There are three separate aerofoil sections shown overlaid on each other here, and with the level of pixelation it is impossible to make out any of the three sections distinctly enough to trace over.

 

 

 

 

I've made a start on the upper wing, but thought I should ask the BM hive if anyone has any information they can share on the aerofoil sections that would give me a better chance of creating an accurate wing profile. 

Scale doesn't matter as I can always resize.  I just need a clear profile/section view of those wing forms. 

I have searched everywhere using every search term I can think of but come up blank.  I'm not even sure if such a thing exists, but thought it worth asking here as you guys have come up trumps so often before

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[europapete]

Hhmmm.....my first suggestion would be to give John Adams (JohnAero) a shout. Will head down into the dungeon now to check my pile. Hold the phone. Regards, Pete in RI

[rossm]

9 hours ago, europapete said:

Hhmmm.....my first suggestion would be to give John Adams (JohnAero) a shout. Will head down into the dungeon now to check my pile. Hold the phone. Regards, Pete in RI

 

+1 @John Aero is almost certain to have useful information

 

Also you could ask @dogsbody to scan his drawings at a higher resolution (1200 or 2400 dpi) and/or supply them in an uncompressed format (TIF not JPG) or at worst use the highest quality of JPG. Both of these together would greatly reduce the pixellation.

[dogsbody]

The only drawing I have of a Wapiti that I can scan is this. It was scanned from Vol. 1 Number 5, Autumn 1982 issue of PLANES magazine.

 

 

 

 

The one I posted before is a downloaded image, but I don't remember where I found it. If you would like a higher rez copy of the above image, let me know what format you'd like My scanner has a few options. Also, how would you like it sent? I have Gmail, with a max. size of 15mb. I also have Dropbox.

 

 

 

Chris

[bentwaters81tfw]

Got a Wallace on my desk under restoration, care of FROG. What you have doesn't look a million miles out.

John Aero hasn't logged in since November.

[wellsprop]

This is stunning! I suggest you post it over in the 3D makerspace

 

I made a rough and ready CAD and 3D printed Wapiti last year. 

There is a Aeroplane Magazine Database article about the Wapiti. I don't know how accurate the plans are.

[wellsprop]

The Dh9a had an RAF18 aerofoil and the Westland PV7 had an RAF34 aerofoil.

 

To be honest, at 1/72 scale you'd struggle to notice the difference between the two aerofoils (I think even 1/48 would be a struggle) With 3d printing, you will encounter issues with the trailing edge thickness, so you won't be able to design exactly to the aerofoils. 

[hendie]

5 hours ago, dogsbody said:

If you would like a higher rez copy of the above image, let me know what format you'd like My scanner has a few options. Also, how would you like it sent? I have Gmail, with a max. size of 15mb. I also have Dropbox.

 

Chris, a higher resolution copy would be fantastic.  I'm using SolidWorks and it accepts all the standard raster image formats. I'd say the best two options would be as mentioned above by Rossm, either TIFF or JPG.  I know TIFF files sizes can be large, so if needed, you could scan the drawing in sections,  I can use Dropbox if it helps.  Obviously the greater the resolution, the more accurate I can (hopefully) create the Wapiti.  I really appreciate your assistance with this - thanks

 

5 hours ago, wellsprop said:

This is stunning!

 

Thanks. I might get around to posting it if I get a bit further with the design,  

That's great info on the aerofoils.  I have a couple of ideas on the trailing edges that I can try out.  The real issue is not printing them but printing them to a dimension that can withstand handling later. As always scale modeling is a compromise in many areas

 

 

 

 

[dogsbody]

Okay! I've scanned the drawing in TIFF. It's 53mb. And I have put it into Dropbox.

 

The only issue I have now is it's been quite a while since I last used it to share anything with someone else and I forget what to do next.

 

I have also saved a 10mb JPEG version, too. 

 

 

 

Chris

[europapete]

Well.......all I have is the Aviation News plans, and they do not have aerofoil sections. I do have a few photo's I took of the fuselage at Hendon, will post them here in a few days. Regards, Pete in RI

[hendie]

15 hours ago, dogsbody said:

The only issue I have now is it's been quite a while since I last used it to share anything with someone else and I forget what to do next.

 

I've only ever used it to receive files so I'm not much help.  It seems there are a few Youtube videos out there which may be helpful, unless someone else here can chime in

 

 

 

[dogsbody]

1 hour ago, hendie said:

 

I've only ever used it to receive files so I'm not much help.  It seems there are a few Youtube videos out there which may be helpful, unless someone else here can chime in

 

 

 

 

I think I've figured it out, sort of. If you PM me your email address, I can add that to the file so you can see it. I'll PM my email address so you can find me on Dropbox.

 

 

 

Chris

[hendie]

24 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

PM me your email address

 

PM sent

[dogsbody]

58 minutes ago, hendie said:

 

PM sent

 

Response sent.

 

 

 

 

Chris

[hendie]

got it!     Excellent - mucho  thanks Chris, this will really help things move along

[Max Headroom]

Google fu found this on Pinterest

 

https://pin.it/5XIwX4I

 

Not sure if it helps.

 

Trevor

 

EDIT

 

I also found this old thread from your favourite modelling site!

 

 

and some nice sharp photos here....

 

http://silverhawkauthor.com/canadian-warplanes-1-westland-wapiti_702.html

 

and the RAF Museum appears to have drawings

 

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/N14522101

 

but quite how you would get access is another thing!

 

[dogsbody]

37 minutes ago, hendie said:

got it!     Excellent - mucho  thanks Chris, this will really help things move along

 

 

Glad to be of assistance.

 

 

 

Chris

[hendie]

1 hour ago, Max Headroom said:

Google fu found this on Pinterest

 

Thanks but I think I have every available scrap of info that's available on t'internet.  The National Archives thing looks very interesting but as I'm based in the USA, I think visiting might be a little difficult

[keith in the uk]

Pardon my intrusion but has there ever been a kit of the Wapiti produced ? the reason i ask is i have one in 1.72nd scale as well as a Wallace which came as a box of built kits ( badly ) i brought years ago , could this be a conversion from a Frog Wallace ? or dose or did a kit exist ?  

[Graham Boak]

Merlin did a Wapiti, but it was pretty awful, and I suspect if it looks like a conversion of the Frog, it probably was.  The only other one I know of was a resin from Czechoslovakia much more recently, and it was a quality kit - I still have two waiting to be made and I suspect one at least never will  (it was going to be a trainer).

[bjohns5]

Remember that the Air Ministry Specification the Wapiti was designed to called for the aircraft to use as many existing components and spare parts from the RAFs vast fleet of surplus DH-9a aircraft as possible. Westland basically lifted the wings and tail directly from the DH-9a design. 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by bjohns5

[JohnT]

 

There was also this future project mentioned a while back but I'm not sure if its still simmering on the back burner?

[mackem01]

@ dora wings.........there's a market.

[Simon]

Slight thread drift, but on Key Publishing's Forum news was posted that a 1/1 scale Wapiti apparently arrived in the UK from India in August for restoration to flight...

 

https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/westland-wapiti-airframe-uk

 

Simon

 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Simon

[Carl V]

1.            I was interested to see this thread revived. I meant to get involved in January but never got around to it.

2.            Some years ago I did a good deal of research and writing on the RCAF Wapitis. The end result was a 40-page history with 60-plus photos which I prepared using Publisher software. I have this now which I can pass on in the shape of a compressed PDF. I feel that this may be of assistance to  some people interested in the type because, even if they have no particular interest in the RCAF version, the considerable amount of detail available, particularly in the photos, might be of use.

3.            At the age of 82, I am becoming increasingly keen on sharing the results of a half-century of research and photo collection. Therefore, if anybody would like to have the above history, just PM me with a email address, and I will get it off to them ASAP.

Carl