Blackburn Skua - Eastern Express 1/72

[CedB]

Welcome Mark, Frank, Roger, Ian, Heather, Craig, Johnny, Chris and Grey - great to see you all  

 

11 hours ago, general melchett said:

Great choice Ced, always liked the look of this awkward beast, reminds me of the memsahib. Always fun to knock these ancient Frog kits together, rather wish someone would release a new one at some point, 1/24th would be nice, (if a little unlikely). Look forward to progress.

Thanks Andy  

I am looking forward to this one - must be my masochistic streak!

 

11 hours ago, giemme said:

Awkward subject - I'm in   Have you been stocking up in Sky and DSG/EDSG and trying to put it all use?  

 

 

 

Ciao

I know! I just see to want to clear the Naval subjects from the stash next - a few more to come.

I hope I don't run out of paint…

 

 

Will, Mark, Graham - what research I've done so far confirms your comments. Not much room on a carrier so 'multi-role' was the way to go. As usual, pre-war, the specification seems to have been out-of-date by the time someone built one! There's a nice video here:

 

 

9 hours ago, perdu said:

In for the fun Ced

Should you get in trouble with the green house I may just be able to help out

 

 

If someone doesnt take at  least one of them off my hands I may need to start growing 1/72 scale orchids in there

Oooh, Bill, that's quite a collection!

What are t'others?

 

 

7 hours ago, Heather Kay said:

It's a Blackburn aircraft. Ugly is the standard. 

Quite right Heather, but that's why we like to build 'em!

Unusual subjects rule - support the underdog!  

 

7 hours ago, Tweener said:

Do you plan to fix the shaping of the wings? From what I recall, they are about 10-15% short in cord, but otherwise the kit seems accurate. I'll be watching in either case, as I plan to build one of these as well.

Er, not Sir. I may tinker with a few bits but mostly OOB

 

6 hours ago, stevehnz said:

Ced, if you wondering what you started, try this site for all the bully.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://dingeraviation.net//skuaroc/modelling_the_blackburn_skua.htm&ved=2ahUKEwicu57c0LfuAhVH4XMBHUacB-IQFjANegQIHBAB&usg=AOvVaw2zlJK8_BNP-7NQnahfgaEP, it has even got info for the wings as mentioned above by @Tweener.

Steve.

Thanks Steve - on the reading list!  

 

4 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

 

I thought mine went together well. Lots of nice resin and PE...not my best work, but hey - I was younger.   

 

 

Cheers,

Bill

Gorgeous Bill, as always. But that's the newer kit!

What colours did you use though? That maybe the scheme I need for L2933…

Or, right, read the WiP, will do.

 

4 hours ago, Dr. Quack said:

Sub-lieutenants Mutt'n'Jeff clutching grimly to their seats, each hoping upon hope that the OTHER one is actually flying the plane.

 

 

Sorry, I promise to behave from now on.......

Q

Don't worry Doc, good behaviour is optional in my threads

 

3 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Wings folded, naturally?  

Oh har de har har

On the ceiling, wings OUT!

[CedB]

Some fondling done.

The fuselage fits well with little work required for the top:

 

 

Sadly, the same cannot be said for the bottom:

 

 

I didn't cut the parts from the trees or there wouldn't be stress marks. No stress marks on my parts (fnaar!)  

 

AHA! I thought… if I clean off the excess plastic before I join up I'll have less work to do.

A quick sand removed the flash - in fact, in some places, it gave up in strips:

 

 

Has that left me with a perfect join? Er, no, there's a gap now, but easier to deal with than a bulge / hump.

 

The crew have been cleaned up and had their Stew-trained base of rat skin Flesh:

 

 

What colours now??

I've searched the web for 'FAA WWII Flying Suit' and get loads of ads, but no useful reference.

Sort of grey green?

Leather helmets and black boots with yellow Mae Wests obviously.

The rest?

 

I must say the mould designers could have placed the ejector pins somewhere else:

 

 

Have some respect guys, honestly…  

[Navy Bird]

51 minutes ago, CedB said:

Gorgeous Bill, as always. But that's the newer kit!

What colours did you use though? That maybe the scheme I need for L2933…

 

Yup, that's the Special Hobby kit. I was responding to @Heather Kay who mentioned that SH was a newer mould than the old Frog effort. Now, what colours did I use? Hmm...methinks it was Alclad Dark Aluminum overall (Why? Who knows, probably because it was there!) with Dull Aluminum on the flappy parts. The fuselage stripe was a decal, and the blue on the tail is Gunze H5. I seem to recall I painted that fin flash twice for some reason (obviously, I must have cocked it up the first time). I also seem to recall that the fin flashes were different colours depending on what ship or squadron or some such organization. I believe Alclad now has a High Speed Silver - hey, it looks like I even have two bottles here on the bench. Haven't used it yet though. I also just love Floquil Old Silver for aluminum lacquer paint jobs - none of that grainy look. But, as usual Testors decided there was no need to sell anything to actual modellers so they discontinued it. They can't get out of the business fast enough for me,  

 

So, speaking of bottles, today I received two bottles of Hataka paint (Roundel Blue for my Tucano and other upcoming projects) from Kitlinx in Utah. Somehow or other one of the bottles leaked during shipment. Yikes, what a mess! Thank goodness Kitlinx had packaged the paint in a Zip-Loc bag which contained the spill.

 

I bet the old Frogger Skua will clean up nicely. For their time, I always thought the Frog kits were pretty good.

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

PS. Somewhat maybe on-topic: I recently pre-ordered from Kitlinx the Caracal 1:72 F-111E Upper Heyford decal sheet - TWICE (two different orders). Since the orders were still open, I asked them to remove one of them and commented "this is what happens when you get old." They complied, but said they couldn't do anything about the getting old part. Nice folks out there in Utah.

[stevehnz]

I'm full of admiration for what you're undertaking here @CedB At one time I had two of these, one kept company with a turret from the old Airfix Defiant, you can see where I was headed with this? Then the Pavla /Octopus kit came out so I bought that & moved the unattached kit on, then the SH kits of the Skua & Roc came out so the other one of these & its accompanying turret immigrated to the North Island where I hope they are happy.   The SH kits look far nicer & I do hope to build them some day as a tribute to the poor flipping naval fliers who had to endure them. Having said that, I've seen plenty of these nicely made & looking good, so I'll be expecting great things as you work your magic. No pressure mind.

Steve.

[Britman]

Strangely enough, I have just aquired the Special Hobby Skua. I didn't mean to, as I was actually purchasing a Master Master for a friend and it fell into the basket! I have a Britannia batch nearing the end of production and the Skua will take their place on the bench.

 

Keith

[Grey Beema]

There seems to be no bomb cut out in the underside of that Skua.  I think there was a blanking plate but don’t know it it was used.  The cut out has straight sides so should be straight forward to build and 5he fuel tanks were mounted to the top.

 

When 800 NAS & 803 NAS we’re serving on Ark Royal in the Med mid Jul/Aug 1940.  I was reading that 800 did the dive bombing and 803 NAS were acting as Fighter cover.  I would assume that 803 removed the demountable bomb crutch for that operation.

 

Thus Ceb you might get away with not having the cut away, just don’t add the bomb crutch but if you want the cut away I don’t think it would be that hard to make.

You also need two fuel tanks between the pilot and TAG as they can been seen through the canopy.

Lastly the SH Skua has the rear cockpit wrong.  Look at the article @stevehnz posted, (which of course I found only after I had completed mine) that will explain all..

 

 

 

[Eric Mc]

Yes, the FROG Skua was not one of their better efforts, even taking into account its age. The wing chord is too narrow and it lacks the bomb cradle and recess on the underside. I built one a few years ago and I replaced the kit's canopy with a Falcon vacform.

 

Not one of my better efforts so I don't show it off.

 

My next Skua build will be a Special Hobby one.,

[2996 Victor]

9 hours ago, CedB said:

There's a nice video here

Hi Ced,

 

thank you for linking the video: very interesting and explains the reasoning behind the Skua's bizarre combination of roles. It does go some way to demonstrate that the Skua wasn't a total disaster, showing it was actually just obsolescent and overtaken by events. As to the Skua's career, I'm happy to stand, or at least sit, corrected, and I'm as always in awe of the chaps who flew these things, be they Swordfish, Albacore, Skua, or the "lucky" ones who were given Fulmars.

 

Great progress as always!

 

Kind regards,

 

Mark

[CedB]

10 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

 

Yup, that's the Special Hobby kit. I was responding to @Heather Kay who mentioned that SH was a newer mould than the old Frog effort. Now, what colours did I use? Hmm...methinks it was Alclad Dark Aluminum overall (Why? Who knows, probably because it was there!) with Dull Aluminum on the flappy parts. The fuselage stripe was a decal, and the blue on the tail is Gunze H5. I seem to recall I painted that fin flash twice for some reason (obviously, I must have cocked it up the first time). I also seem to recall that the fin flashes were different colours depending on what ship or squadron or some such organization. I believe Alclad now has a High Speed Silver - hey, it looks like I even have two bottles here on the bench. Haven't used it yet though. I also just love Floquil Old Silver for aluminum lacquer paint jobs - none of that grainy look. But, as usual Testors decided there was no need to sell anything to actual modellers so they discontinued it. They can't get out of the business fast enough for me,  

 

So, speaking of bottles, today I received two bottles of Hataka paint (Roundel Blue for my Tucano and other upcoming projects) from Kitlinx in Utah. Somehow or other one of the bottles leaked during shipment. Yikes, what a mess! Thank goodness Kitlinx had packaged the paint in a Zip-Loc bag which contained the spill.

 

I bet the old Frogger Skua will clean up nicely. For their time, I always thought the Frog kits were pretty good.

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

PS. Somewhat maybe on-topic: I recently pre-ordered from Kitlinx the Caracal 1:72 F-111E Upper Heyford decal sheet - TWICE (two different orders). Since the orders were still open, I asked them to remove one of them and commented "this is what happens when you get old." They complied, but said they couldn't do anything about the getting old part. Nice folks out there in Utah.

Thanks Bill  

Hmmm. The dingeraviation site says "It has been suggested that this was not silver at all, but a very light grey, "Cerrux Grey", a protective finish manufactured by the Cellon company." Yours looks just right.

Bad news about the paint and decals, I hope you get it sorted.

 

8 hours ago, stevehnz said:

I'm full of admiration for what you're undertaking here @CedB At one time I had two of these, one kept company with a turret from the old Airfix Defiant, you can see where I was headed with this? Then the Pavla /Octopus kit came out so I bought that & moved the unattached kit on, then the SH kits of the Skua & Roc came out so the other one of these & its accompanying turret immigrated to the North Island where I hope they are happy.   The SH kits look far nicer & I do hope to build them some day as a tribute to the poor flipping naval fliers who had to endure them. Having said that, I've seen plenty of these nicely made & looking good, so I'll be expecting great things as you work your magic. No pressure mind.

Steve.

Thanks Steve. Pressure? I don't do pressure  

 

4 hours ago, Britman said:

Strangely enough, I have just aquired the Special Hobby Skua. I didn't mean to, as I was actually purchasing a Master Master for a friend and it fell into the basket! I have a Britannia batch nearing the end of production and the Skua will take their place on the bench.

 

Keith

It happens to me too Keith. Strange eh?

 

4 hours ago, Grey Beema said:

There seems to be no bomb cut out in the underside of that Skua.  I think there was a blanking plate but don’t know it it was used.  The cut out has straight sides so should be straight forward to build and 5he fuel tanks were mounted to the top.

 

When 800 NAS & 803 NAS we’re serving on Ark Royal in the Med mid Jul/Aug 1940.  I was reading that 800 did the dive bombing and 803 NAS were acting as Fighter cover.  I would assume that 803 removed the demountable bomb crutch for that operation.

 

Thus Ceb you might get away with not having the cut away, just don’t add the bomb crutch but if you want the cut away I don’t think it would be that hard to make.

You also need two fuel tanks between the pilot and TAG as they can been seen through the canopy.

Lastly the SH Skua has the rear cockpit wrong.  Look at the article @stevehnz posted, (which of course I found only after I had completed mine) that will explain all..

 

 

 

Thanks GB

Now then, as usual I have to decide whether to build the kit or use it to make a model…

Yours looks great, but would be a lot of work…

As this one's going on the ceiling (and as my tagline might imply) I think it'll be the former!

 

3 hours ago, Eric Mc said:

Yes, the FROG Skua was not one of their better efforts, even taking into account its age. The wing chord is too narrow and it lacks the bomb cradle and recess on the underside. I built one a few years ago and I replaced the kit's canopy with a Falcon vacform.

 

Not one of my better efforts so I don't show it off.

 

My next Skua build will be a Special Hobby one.,

You're right Eric  

The kit doesn't have anything on the bottom:

 

 

Probably why Hannants had this kit cheap!

I tried the canopy this morning and it does fit really well - good enough for the ceiling.

 

2 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

Hi Ced,

 

thank you for linking the video: very interesting and explains the reasoning behind the Skua's bizarre combination of roles. It does go some way to demonstrate that the Skua wasn't a total disaster, showing it was actually just obsolescent and overtaken by events. As to the Skua's career, I'm happy to stand, or at least sit, corrected, and I'm as always in awe of the chaps who flew these things, be they Swordfish, Albacore, Skua, or the "lucky" ones who were given Fulmars.

 

Great progress as always!

 

Kind regards,

 

Mark

Thanks Mark  

[Graham Boak]

The idea that Cerrux Grey was used is interesting, and Ian Huntley was always worth paying attention to, but I don't think it is supported by hard evidence.  Aluminium was in general use by the FAA so it seems likelier, and the photographs (including the actual one next to the comment on the dingeraviation site) look to my eye more like a metallic finish than the plain grey.  Cerrux Grey was however used by the FAA where the RAF simply polished bare metal, and (must check with Matt Willis's book) weren't the metal-skinned Sharks in this grey?  Look at the photos and make up your own mind?

 

I've dug out Ian Gazeley's (as Stuart Lloyd) book on FAA camouflage & markings: although the fabric-covered biplanes have Aluminium dope (on the fabric, presumably) and Cerrux Grey (on the metal), he describes a Shark in the "standard Aluminium dope" and Skuas in Aluminium.  The first is almost a throw-away comment for a Shark being used as a standard for camouflage trials, so could it be right?  It could of course be right for that one aircraft.  The Skua comment however is repeated several times.  One possible confusion is that by the time the Skua entered service Sky Grey was being considered as a colour and would replace Cerrux Grey as a light grey of choice.  Perhaps however Sky Grey is a little bit darker?

 

I could be convinced that Sharks and Skuas were in Cerrux Grey on appearance, but feel certain that Ian would have found this out in his researches for the book.  If you don't like painting metallic finishes, then it seems like a good way out.

[Terry1954]

Phew, made it, and only page 2. Nice choice Ced and another FAA aircraft. I have one from Octopus (Pavla) in my stash, and ot is really rather good for a short run. Sort of Special Hobby with a bit of CMR for a few components. Box art is thus:

 

 

I will surely tag along on this one.

 

Terry

[Martian]

You can get away with not having the bomb recess as this had a cover when the aircraft was not require for dive bombing so just a quick scribe of its out line would suffice. Magna did do a correction set for the wings but it might be a bit hard to find these days. I corrected mine by sawing the wings apart and inserting some plastic card laminate and sanding it all to shape. It sounds a lot more work than it really is.

 

Martian 👽

[Navy Bird]

4 hours ago, CedB said:

Hmmm. The dingeraviation site says "It has been suggested that this was not silver at all, but a very light grey, "Cerrux Grey", a protective finish manufactured by the Cellon company." Yours looks just right.

 

Interesting site, particularly the advertisement from Cellon showing a line-up of Skuas. But does that really support the Cerrux Grey theory? Perhaps Cellon also made an aluminium finish.

 

Disclaimer: I live on the wrong side of the Atlantic and know nothing about Cellon.   

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

PS. I ain't repainting my Skua! I think I remember why I painted the fin stripes - the kit decal was the wrong colour. I think it was red and white instead of blue and white. But I'm old and too lazy to go back through my WIP to find out for sure.

[Pete in Lincs]

15 hours ago, CedB said:

but easier to deal with than a bulge / hump.

Esmeralda!

 

Sorry I'm late. The chain came off my bike on that hill, and I've done myself a nasty....

 

Original FROG release was 1964! This is the second issue boxtop

[Terry1954]

It would seem Cerrux grey has been discussed here before on at least two occasions.............

 

 

Lots of colour references to get your head around Ced!

 

Being a luddite, I still like the idea of a sort of silver grey dope! 😱

 

Reaching for my coat...........

 

Terry

[iang]

3 hours ago, Martian said:

You can get away with not having the bomb recess as this had a cover when the aircraft was not require for dive bombing so just a quick scribe of its out line would suffice. Magna did do a correction set for the wings but it might be a bit hard to find these days. I corrected mine by sawing the wings apart and inserting some plastic card laminate and sanding it all to shape. It sounds a lot more work than it really is.

 

Martian 👽

 

Martin,

 

WRT the bomb recess cover - are you sure about this? I've searched all the extant production files and can find no reference to it. On Roc's this plate was fitted, but I've not seen a photo of one fitted on a Skua. Of course, the absence of evidence doesn't mean it didn't exist. I'd be grateful for a reference if you have one.

 

IG

[Mr T]

A real blast from the past. I have built the SH one, that came out OK and many moons ago, I started to correct  Frog Novo. Replaced the dowel with wood screws for cylinders kit engine with one from an Airfix Blenheim (I know not a Perseus) added chord to wings and rebuilt the tail surfaces as they were too small. Didn't get any further as I then moved to Leeds from Sheffield and most modelling stuff went into storage. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Mr T

[iang]

23 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

The idea that Cerrux Grey was used is interesting, and Ian Huntley was always worth paying attention to, but I don't think it is supported by hard evidence.  Aluminium was in general use by the FAA so it seems likelier, and the photographs (including the actual one next to the comment on the dingeraviation site) look to my eye more like a metallic finish than the plain grey.  Cerrux Grey was however used by the FAA where the RAF simply polished bare metal, and (must check with Matt Willis's book) weren't the metal-skinned Sharks in this grey?  Look at the photos and make up your own mind?

 

I've dug out Ian Gazeley's (as Stuart Lloyd) book on FAA camouflage & markings: although the fabric-covered biplanes have Aluminium dope (on the fabric, presumably) and Cerrux Grey (on the metal), he describes a Shark in the "standard Aluminium dope" and Skuas in Aluminium.  The first is almost a throw-away comment for a Shark being used as a standard for camouflage trials, so could it be right?  It could of course be right for that one aircraft.  The Skua comment however is repeated several times.  One possible confusion is that by the time the Skua entered service Sky Grey was being considered as a colour and would replace Cerrux Grey as a light grey of choice.  Perhaps however Sky Grey is a little bit darker?

 

I could be convinced that Sharks and Skuas were in Cerrux Grey on appearance, but feel certain that Ian would have found this out in his researches for the book.  If you don't like painting metallic finishes, then it seems like a good way out.

My description of Shark's in prewar finish was sloppy (they were finished the same as Swordfish with Cerrux Grey on all metal panels and aluminium dope on the fabric). Incidentally, Cerrux Grey was a trade name for Light Aircraft Grey. As for Skuas, that's a bit more tricky. I searched long and hard for definitive written evidence either way. In the absence of written evidence, we're forced to rely on other evidence. Consider first photographs of newly completed Skuas, and those still on the Blackburn production line:

 

 

These look like a high speed silver type finish to me, rather than uniform light grey. 

 

The other sources available are contemporary adverts and postcards:

 

This one is probably the best  evidence as it shows a Swordfish (known to be in overall aluminium dope and Cerrux Grey) and a Skua. I think the artist is trying to depict a high speed type aluminium finish on the Skua.

 

Also this one:

 

 

Again, it doesn't look to me that the artist is trying to depict overall light grey.

 

And this contemporary advert:

 

Admittedly black and white, but isn't that how aluminium would be portrayed?

 

Of course, none of this is definitive, but explains my reasoning as to why I accepted the dominant view that Skuas were finished in overall aluminium. However, there are always counter examples in these types of debate, and this is no exception. The Admiralty documents on camouflage trials contain several references to their preferred finish, which was a light grey that blended with the clouds (or words to that effect - I'd need to find the file among my boxes of Admiralty document photocopies to get the exact wording). But try as I might I could not link this with any instructions to finish operational FAA aircraft in overall light grey. 

 

And there is this photo:

 

 

Which looks much more like overall light grey than the photos above (and there are other examples).

 

So in conclusion, I still think that the balance of evidence points to an overall aluminium finish, but I would not be surprised if in the future it was discovered that Skuas were, in fact  (or at least some them), finished in light grey.

Edited January 27, 2021 by iang

[The Spadgent]

Well I’ve never seen one of these before. Looks like an interestingly moulded kit. 💆‍♂️ I’m sure you’ll have fun with it. Looking forward to this one. I’ll get some nuts. 👌

 

Johnny

[AdrianMF]

Brave man! As has been said above, not one of FROG's finest. Filed alongside Airfix IL-2 and Battle. BUT I will enjoy watching you build it!

 

Regards,

Adrian

[Pete in Lincs]

Do a google search and there are lots of different colour schemes. Some Aircraft are obviously silver. There are some nice yellow & black striped ones.

 

And I found out what wartime cartoonist Wren thought of it...

[TonyW]

Here's a few period magazine shots of the Skua. Nothing definitive, but nice in their own way. The red stripe one would stand out in a crowd.

 

 

 

[CedB]

Thanks Graham, Terry, Bill, Pete, Mr T, Ian and Tony - some great reference material, really appreciated.

 

I think I'll go for an overall aluminium finish and L2933  

 

On 26/01/2021 at 15:46, Martian said:

You can get away with not having the bomb recess as this had a cover when the aircraft was not require for dive bombing so just a quick scribe of its out line would suffice. Magna did do a correction set for the wings but it might be a bit hard to find these days. I corrected mine by sawing the wings apart and inserting some plastic card laminate and sanding it all to shape. It sounds a lot more work than it really is.

 

Martian 👽

21 hours ago, iang said:

Martin,

 

WRT the bomb recess cover - are you sure about this? I've searched all the extant production files and can find no reference to it. On Roc's this plate was fitted, but I've not seen a photo of one fitted on a Skua. Of course, the absence of evidence doesn't mean it didn't exist. I'd be grateful for a reference if you have one.

 

IG

Thanks Martian and Ian

The dinger aviation site does mention the fitting of a blanking plate but they don't seem too sure about it.

Being lazy I think I might side with Frog - and maybe scribe some lines.

 

19 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Well I’ve never seen one of these before. Looks like an interestingly moulded kit. 💆‍♂️ I’m sure you’ll have fun with it. Looking forward to this one. I’ll get some nuts. 👌

 

Johnny

'Interestingly moulded' is one word for it Johnny. Oh no, wait, two words  

 

19 hours ago, AdrianMF said:

Brave man! As has been said above, not one of FROG's finest. Filed alongside Airfix IL-2 and Battle. BUT I will enjoy watching you build it!

 

Regards,

Adrian

Thanks Adrian - I'll just keep chanting OOB, OOB  

 

It may even sink in with me…

[CedB]

Internals (a ha ha ha) painted:

 

 

Crew are nearly there too.

 

On to the front end while that dries. A good example of the 'interesting moulding':

 

 

At least the intakes are there, somewhere in the flash.

Also note the characteristic Skua bent propellor…  

[malpaso]

For another period description of the prewar colour this probably won’t help from the original Aircraft of the Fighting Powers (Dec 1940):

“these first production machines were left the natural silver finish of the Alclad covering.”

 

The revised and completely redrawn vol 1 (late 1942 edn) avoids mentioning pre-war colours for a more realistic operational history commencing “Outstanding success has not attended the active service career of the Skua...”

 

BMF sounds unlikely but I assume the Alclad would quickly dull to a light grey in the UK climate.  AFP suggests this was only the earliest deliveries to 800 sqn; although everyone poo-poos AFP they were written at the time by people who had seen some of these aircraft; obviously the further from England the greater the dependence on secondary sources.  They’re fun books to dip into anyway!

 

Cheers

Will