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1/48 - McDonnell Douglas F-4B Phantom II by Tamiya - released - Blackdog detailing sets


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11 hours ago, keithjs said:

 

And with Jadlam's Economy delivery you won't pay postage either....

Which means it just gets put in a plastic bag, no box. Pretty sure thats how my Revell Jaguar kits windscreen got broken

It's economy for a reason 😀

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45 minutes ago, Beermonster1958 said:

I doubt if it would be much, if any higher. But, by sticking the word "Tamiya" in front of it, they then add £35 - £40 to the price knowing that people will pay for it.

It's paying for the name, not the product. A bit like buying a pair of Nike trainers at £100 instead of a pair of Tesco trainers at £40.

The cheaper ones are probably just as good but, the brand snobs buy the Nike ones because they think the brand name makes them better?

 

John

 

Tamiya is a Japanese company, that sell at Japanese prices. Meng and others are Chinese companies that sell at Chinese prices.

Not that Meng kits are particularly cheap themselves.... how much is a Meng F-106 ? £ 35 to 40 ? For a 1/72 kit... makes a £100 1/48 Phantom almost sound like a bargain !

Not to mention other Chinese manufacturers that are now becoming increasingly more expensive while producing stuff with a fraction of the quality of the modern Japanese products

 

When it comes to aircraft kits, Tamiya is not just a brand, it's a guarantee that all parts will be designed to give the modeller the easiest possible job to get a very good looking model, in a way that no other manufacturer does. Others may be more detailed or have more options, but when it comes to an enjoyable building experience nobody has consistently managed to do better.

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2 hours ago, colin said:

Which means it just gets put in a plastic bag, no box. Pretty sure thats how my Revell Jaguar kits windscreen got broken

It's economy for a reason 😀

Yes, thats quite true but personally I've not had any problems (so far)

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11 hours ago, SleeperService said:

@JeffreyK Is Mr Hypersonic. I think that Japan Post may not be shipping to the UK at the moment.

Generally Covid is causing updates on an almost minute-by-minute basis. I had a notification telling me stock was in, ordered it, then the country's Post office put the UK on the naughty list as I paypal'd the money. Very annoying.

Yes, so I now understand. The same problem arises when you try to order from Victory Models and the 48ers....Oh well, no hurry...

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20 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

When it comes to aircraft kits, Tamiya is not just a brand, it's a guarantee that all parts will be designed to give the modeller the easiest possible job to get a very good looking model, in a way that no other manufacturer does. Others may be more detailed or have more options, but when it comes to an enjoyable building experience nobody has consistently managed to do better.

I have to agree with this, so I have pre-ordered a Tamiya F-4B from Hannants, if it's anywhere as good as their Tomcat I will be happy.  As for will they make the rest of the F-4 phamily?  I would not hold my breath, look at their other kits like their Spitfire and Bf 109, they were designed to have follow on variants but non have appeared.  Others have been mentioned where only a couple of different options have been released, F-14, F-16 and Me 262 where a whole family of kits could have been released, but that has been left to other manufacturers to make.  Strange policy, perhaps it's an exclusivity thing? 

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8 minutes ago, Retired Bob said:

I have to agree with this, so I have pre-ordered a Tamiya F-4B from Hannants, if it's anywhere as good as their Tomcat I will be happy.  As for will they make the rest of the F-4 phamily?  I would not hold my breath, look at their other kits like their Spitfire and Bf 109, they were designed to have follow on variants but non have appeared.  Others have been mentioned where only a couple of different options have been released, F-14, F-16 and Me 262 where a whole family of kits could have been released, but that has been left to other manufacturers to make.  Strange policy, perhaps it's an exclusivity thing? 

 

Pretty standard Tamiya policy and one that has some sense. Tamiya is not a huge producer of aircraft kits and these really are a very small part of their products catalogue. With their aircraft they do not try to appeal to the kind of modeller who will build a dozen variation of a single type, rather they try to offer modellers the "definitive" kit of a certain subject. Where definitive for them means the best combination of ease of assembly and detail, with ease of assembly and good engineering as most important. The kind of modeller who will rate these aspects highly is not necessarily an enthusiast of the type, often he will be someone who just wants "a Phantom", not "one of the 36 RF-4E with slatted wing as sold to Turkey". An F-4B is a good choice to attract "generic" modellers thanks to the colourful markings and the allure of its part in the Vietnam War. US Navy Phantoms are also pretty popular with modellers in Japan and around the world.

Could they have proposed something different ? Sure, for example an EJ would have been pretty popular in their home market. And who knows, they may issue one in the future... in any case it would have been a variant with a large sales potential.

 

Having many variations of the same mould is a double edged sword when it comes to selling kits...

With a range of variants a manufacturer can attract a higher number of enthusiasts, as some will prefer one variant over the other while the type fanatics will guarantee multiple purchases. At the same time the "casual" modeller who just wants "a Phantom" will care little for this, he will grab the box he finds most attractive for whatever reason, leaving the others on the shelves. Clearly having more variants means having to invest more money, if the higher sales to enthusiasts cover this fine, however if the main market is made of casual modellers, this extra cost is not justified and the many variants will "cannibalise" each others when it comes to sales.

In the end it's a choice: Hasegawa has been one of the champions of the multiple variants approach while Tamiya has preferred to produce only one variant of most of their kits. Not only one variant, but one box, always the same over the years with the same artwork and decals. Clearly their sales have shown them that modellers keep buying the same kit with the same decals over the years in numbers that are sufficient to not require any change. That is perfect when it comes to the financial side of things, as even a new box and decals mean new investments.

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57 minutes ago, Beermonster1958 said:

Fair enough. Changes nothing though. I stand by what I said.

You can have enjoyable building experiences for a whole lot less than the cost of a seriously overpriced Tamiya kit.

If people think £100 is a reasonable price for a 1/48 Phantom, that's their prerogative. I'm not one of them.
 

John

 

 

Absolutely, and each modeller has his/her personal idea of what an "enjoyable build experience" is, that is part of the beauty of our hobby.

Regarding cost, in the end each of us will vote with his wallet based on his perception of value and the importance given to one aspect or the other. That is something that happens in every field, be it a kit or a smartphone or a car

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7 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

Regarding cost, in the end each of us will vote with his wallet based on his perception of value and the importance given to one aspect or the other. That is something that happens in every field, be it a kit or a smartphone or a car

I'm sure the cost will not be £100 for long, there will soon be AM decals, resin upgrades for wheels, seats, cockpit and weapons.  As Giorgio says, vote with your wallet, if that's what makes you happy, go for it, if not, make something else. :winkgrin:

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12 hours ago, B.sin said:

The speed breaks are not open, 

not a good sign. ☹

 

Hopefully the items that need to be removed/replaced to do an early F-4B are in fact separate kit parts! However, if the kit's speed brakes are in fact molded closed, that's a large challenge that a kit of this quality and high price should definitely not present.  

 

Gene K

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13 hours ago, B.sin said:

The speed breaks are not open, 

not a good sign. ☹

 

As we haven't seen the sprue shots YET lets not speculate. There may be several options for fit and position etc.  Tamiya do tend to do "all you need" out of the box.

 

Dick

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31 minutes ago, jenko said:

 

As we haven't seen the sprue shots YET lets not speculate. There may be several options for fit and position etc.  Tamiya do tend to do "all you need" out of the box.

 

Dick

 Isn't it the sacred and constitutional right of the armchair modeler to speculate and whine about real or perceived problems?

😉

 

S.

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For the size and complexity of the kit, there is no objective reason why it should cost wanted amount, while it may not be new, its in  the same price range as their 1/32 Phantom, and yes 32nd has its shortcomings, but just the difference in size should keep 48th kit price at bay.

Regarding detail and finesse, while Tamiya kits

do fall together in my view today  they are behind GWH and Eduard, for a price 30-40% higher than mentioned competition, as of last 5 years disparity between mentioned categories and brands growing wider, not o

in Tamiya's favour.

 

its simply beyond any reasoning why in this age they are pricing their aircraft kits so high.

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17 minutes ago, Sebastien said:

 Isn't it the sacred and constitutional right of the armchair modeler to speculate and whine about real or perceived problems?

😉

 

S.

In that case it's totally inaccurate and will not fit properly :whistle: :banghead: :rofl2:

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5 minutes ago, Thomas V. said:

For the size and complexity of the kit, there is no objective reason why it should cost wanted amount, while it may not be new, its in  the same price range as their 1/32 Phantom, and yes 32nd has its shortcomings, but just the difference in size should keep 48th kit price at bay.

Regarding detail and finesse, while Tamiya kits

do fall together in my view today  they are behind GWH and Eduard, for a price 30-40% higher than mentioned competition, as of last 5 years disparity between mentioned categories and brands growing wider, not o

in Tamiya's favour.

 

its simply beyond any reasoning why in this age they are pricing their aircraft kits so high.

 

This kit price and his box will be in the same range and size than the Tomcat ones.

So expect a MRSP near 5800 yens in Japan.

 

It's an error to use an UK preorder price for a japan kit as an reference. 

Edited by plasticguy
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12 minutes ago, Thomas V. said:

For the size and complexity of the kit, there is no objective reason why it should cost wanted amount, while it may not be new, its in  the same price range as their 1/32 Phantom, and yes 32nd has its shortcomings, but just the difference in size should keep 48th kit price at bay.

Regarding detail and finesse, while Tamiya kits

do fall together in my view today  they are behind GWH and Eduard, for a price 30-40% higher than mentioned competition, as of last 5 years disparity between mentioned categories and brands growing wider, not o

in Tamiya's favour.

 

its simply beyond any reasoning why in this age they are pricing their aircraft kits so high.

It's not just a Tamiya thing - look at the price of old Hasegawa kits, their 1/72nd scale F-4's retail at £50 and older kit with no intakes and decals instead of raised detail in the cockpit. By comparison the Tamiya kit it well priced and in Japan I'm sure it's a very good price, the recent increase in shipping probably adding more to the price of the kit than it would have a year ago.

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7 minutes ago, Tbolt said:

It's not just a Tamiya thing - look at the price of old Hasegawa kits, their 1/72nd scale F-4's retail at £50 and older kit with no intakes and decals instead of raised detail in the cockpit. By comparison the Tamiya kit it well priced and in Japan I'm sure it's a very good price, the recent increase in shipping probably adding more to the price of the kit than it would have a year ago.

 

As Tamiya and others japanese manufacturers, Hasegawa print the MRSP (price) on the kit's box.

So, no the price of old Hasegawa kits don't change, the only change you can see, it's for some new boxing with new decals +resin/PE or markings made by Cartograf.

 

The truth is some japanese kits importers are just bad.

We have the same here, Tamiya kits 'price are horrific too.

But since few years, Revell is the importer of Bandai kits, like Gundam and some SW (the good ones).

And guess what? the price are pretty competitive. Proof that it's possible.

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Phantom from Tamiya is good news but why B model that is already covered by Academy? Why not E, S or some recon version? Well hopefully Academy is going to wake up and milk out their Phantom by making something later than D and J (would be really great if it would be S with option for ferris scheme)

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1 hour ago, plasticguy said:

 

As Tamiya and others japanese manufacturers, Hasegawa print the MRSP (price) on the kit's box.

So, no the price of old Hasegawa kits don't change, the only change you can see, it's for some new boxing with new decals +resin/PE or markings made by Cartograf.

 

The truth is some japanese kits importers are just bad.

We have the same here, Tamiya kits 'price are horrific too.

But since few years, Revell is the importer of Bandai kits, like Gundam and some SW (the good ones).

And guess what? the price are pretty competitive. Proof that it's possible.

I never said old boxing retail price changes I just meant old molds.

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35 minutes ago, Doom3r said:

Phantom from Tamiya is good news but why B model that is already covered by Academy? Why not E, S or some recon version? Well hopefully Academy is going to wake up and milk out their Phantom by making something later than D and J (would be really great if it would be S with option for ferris scheme)

Once the Tamiya Phantom is released, check for a mold insert seam somewhere around the nose. If there's a seam it may be there to allow for alternate mold inserts to do photo or E/F/G noses. I would be surprised if Tamiya did not allow for that later. Obviously they did with their P-38. Whether they actually will release later versions, that's the question.  

Edited by jpk
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