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Help... typhoon inside canopy color? Wheels?


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Hi Brits...  Building a Typhoon car door...  what is the correct color to paint the area inside canopy on top of fuselage, and behind seat bulkhead?

 

I spent alot of time searching photos of models and photos and cant tell if its RAF interior green or flat black (like seat bulkhead is) or something else...

 

Also when did the early wheels change to late wheels on a Tiffy?  The hasegawa car door kit has only the late wheel.  I have both early and late wheels in resin...  my model is a spring 1943 aircraft.  Thanks!!!

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Years ago when I built the Revell car door Typhoon I came across a photo of the production line and it seemed to show the area under the aft part of the canopy in camouflage colours, of course I cannot find it now but that is my recollection, but have no fear an expert will be along soon !

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

Couldn't resist, just looked through my Typhoon books and found a Photo of a 181 squadron Typhoon JP513 EL-F in a ditch at New Romsey on 4 August 1943 which shows camouflage under the rear canopy, it's in Warpaint series No. 5

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I agree with Dennis, although I would say the evidence is not completely conclusive.

 

I've never found any documentation on the change in wheel type on Typhoons but, judging by photographic evidence, the changeover on the production line was between DN411 and DN421, i.e. Typhoons deliver mid December 1942.  Typically, the pre-DN421 Typhoons would remain in service until late summer 1943.

 

Which Typhoon decals have you chosen to use?

 

Chris

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I always treat the Typhoon*, Tempest and Fury, as indeed the low-back Spitfire, as continuous painting of the upper surface under where the canopy goes. It reflects how they were made., continuous skinning. It;s not the same as, say, a P-51D or Fw 190 where the skin terminates at the line of the closed canopy

 

*and it turns out I should not, on a Typhoon - see Chris's post below

 

Edited by Work In Progress
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I found some inflight photos of car door typhoons where this area appears black, and does not follow cammo pattern.  I wish I could post, but it is several flying. US-Y is in picture and you can see the cammo stops at the canopy frame and a very dark color is under canopy.  Few other typhoons in the same photo are the same.  I just google 'US-Y hawker typhoon' and this inflight photo comes up with US-Y in the foreground and some others on his wing.  You can see the cammo stops at canopy frame and a dark color is solid under canopy...

 

I have found great photos of the bubbletop version where the cammo continues under tha canopy, but that is understandable as those hoods come off easy.

 

I am modelling HH-N. 'Dirty Dora' and have the classic photo of the plane getting bombs loaded...  but hard to see under canopy color.  The hasegawa kit calls out RAF interior green for this area and cockpit, but real photos show this area is black in cockpit.  Just wondering if the black continues under back canopy.

Edited by Tokyo Raider
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14 minutes ago, Work In Progress said:

I always treat the Typhoon, Tempest and Fury, as indeed the low-back Spitfire, as continuous painting of the upper surface under where the canopy goes. It reflects how they were made., continuous skinning. It;s not the same as, say, a P-51D or Fw 190 where the skin terminates at the line of the closed canopy

 

That may be good for the car-door variants but the production sliding-hood Typhoons had the area under the canopy, when closed, painted Night (black).

6 minutes ago, Tokyo Raider said:

I found some inflight photos of car door typhoons where this area appears black, and does not follow cammo pattern.  I wish I could post, but it is several flying. US-Y is in picture and you can see the cammo stops at the canopy frame and a very dark color is under canopy.  Few other typhoons in the same photo are the same.

 

I have found great photos of the bubbletop version where the cammo continues under tha canopy, but that is understandable as those hoods come off easy.

 

I am modelling HH-N. 'Dirty Dora' and have the classic photo of the plane getting bombs loaded...  but hard to see under canopy color.  The hasegawa kit calls out RAF interior green for this area and cockpit, but real photos show this area is black in cockpit.  Just wondering if the black continues under back canopy.

I have some photos of the 56 Sqn formation Tokyo Raider mentions but I do not find them so convincing; they were shot in April 1943.  It was a press day and many photos taken on the ground also exist.  One such is US-H photographed from the rear and above - shot from the top of a blast pen.  Under the rear canopy looks ocean grey to me.

 

However, I should say this seem to be a period when operational units were painting the cockpits black - in order to reduce canopy reflections during the increasing numbers of night time operations.  Typhoon cockpits had started in 'cockpit green' but the cockpit above the seat level was painted black on production aircraft some time in late spring/early summer.  So there may well be variation in the way the black was applied to service aircraft during this period - possibly including black aft of the seat armour.  

 

If the edge of the car-door is visible it can be an indicator of green or black cockpit. DN374 US-A photographed c.Feb 43 was green whereas most (if not all) of those on 21 April 1943) were black.  Dirty Dora (EK134) about the same period (April) was also black ... but I would opt for camo behind the headrest.

 

As stated above, the standard factory paint-job on sliding-hood Typhoons was black on the fuselage under the canopy.

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Thanks for your help!  In that in flight photo, the demarcation between light and dark cammo color should be visible under canopy on that plane, but it looks solid dark color...

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17 hours ago, Chris Thomas said:

the production sliding-hood Typhoons had the area under the canopy, when closed, painted Night (black).

News to me! Thanks, that's something I've been getting wrong, then

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7 hours ago, Work In Progress said:

News to me! Thanks, that's something I've been getting wrong, then

I have seen models and photos of the real Typhoon bubbletops both ways.  Cammo under canopy and black (or night) behind headrest...  So I have seen photos in both ways, black (or a solid dark color) and also with the cammo continuing under the canopy.  I can understand the cammo under the bubbletop with sliding canopy...  but the car door also has a diagonal structural member running from top of the headrest bulkhead (which is conclusively black) to the back deck and other structure which is different and the canopy is fixed to the fuselage.  Its not easy to remove.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

 

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The camouflage and markings book with the shadow shading diagram states 'Area visible through canopy painted Night (Black) on Typhoon and Tempest with clear one piece cockpit hood'.  Which I wouldn't disagree with.

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3 hours ago, Tokyo Raider said:

...  but the car door also has a diagonal structural member running from top of the headrest bulkhead (which is conclusively black) to the back deck and other structure which is different and the canopy is fixed to the fuselage.  Its not easy to remove...

 

 

Been trough all this myself as I have had a penchant for the car door Tiffie. I've bought quite a few books , but none had any clear answer.

 

My take is that the clear rear canopy was an addition or change from the original solid structure and painted interior green. The few close up pictures of cardoor Tiffie and pilot does not show the armour as painted black, that must be later.

 

Pure speculation, I admit, but plausible, I hope.

 

/Finn

 

 

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2 hours ago, FinnAndersen said:

Been trough all this myself as I have had a penchant for the car door Tiffie. I've bought quite a few books , but none had any clear answer.

 

My take is that the clear rear canopy was an addition or change from the original solid structure and painted interior green. The few close up pictures of cardoor Tiffie and pilot does not show the armour as painted black, that must be later.

 

Pure speculation, I admit, but plausible, I hope.

 

/Finn

 

 

Thanks Finn...  the hadegawa kit calls out interior green for cockpit entirely and the area behind headrest.  However all photos show aluminum color truss and black above that truss and black inside the car doors, which i have also seen in photos too, and interior green on walls below top of truss.  It seems if all the upper cockpit is painted black, so too would be the under rear canopy.  I did find photos of typhoons in flight and that back canopy inside color looks very  dark and the cammo demarcation stops at canopy frame.  

 

I am stumped, i can do it either way.

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On 1/22/2021 at 12:17 PM, Tokyo Raider said:

Thanks for your help!  In that in flight photo, the demarcation between light and dark cammo color should be visible under canopy on that plane, but it looks solid dark color...

I have since found another photo of the same flight of typhoons and same plane from a slightly different angle.  The shading inside that clear back canopy on the car door COULD be cammo.  The one angle photo i first saw it looks all dark inside there and cammo appears to stop at canopy frame.  But this SECOND photo of same plane from a slightly different angle appears to have two colors inside that hood.

 

So i guess i will put cammo under that canopy on the car door typhoon.

Edited by Tokyo Raider
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