Duncan B Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Excuse me if this has been asked before (I bet it has been asked many times). I am about to start applying the lozenge decals to the wing undersides of my WnW Albatros (after having put this task of for 9 months already!). I have practiced with the hairdryer technique on some cheap kit decals just to get the feel for it (boy it really works well too!) so feel I'm good to go. The question I have is about placement. I am guessing that the best way to go about laying the wet decals out would be to line up the leading edge and leave the trailing edge oversized to be trimmed off after the decal has dried? I am concerned that the decal might shrink or move somewhat as the hairdryer does it's work and the decal starts to snuggle into the concave shape of the wing. I am also guessing it's best to cut the decals into sections, maybe x number of ribs wide, to apply rather than trying to get one great big slab of decal onto the wing. Was there a specific width (or number of ribs in the case of an Albatros D.V) that the original material was produced in that I should replicate? I feel really guilty that a decal job has stalled what was otherwise a fun build for 9 months so need to get on with it now. Cheers in advance Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europapete Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Hi Duncan, I haven't done any Albies yet, but on my LVG I used HGW decals and applied them in bolt width sections starting at the leading edge and trimming when dry at the trailing. Regards, Pete in RI 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 The material was produced in a basic standard width of about 1.35m wide, but there were minor size differences, from 1.25m to 1.45m roughly. On your 1/32 WnW kit that would be about 42.2mm wide It was applied in a number of ways; 1, chord wise, going from leading edge to trailing edge of the wing, each width piece joining the next until the wing span was covered 2. at a 45* angle then as 1 3. one long piece going the wingspan, then another joining it, and so on till the the wing was covered from front to back, the chord. Matching the pattern was not really done as that would waste material. A close matching would be appropriate but not really necessary imho 4. Ailerons were covered separately, usually with the material running span-wise, which would make it 90* to 1, 45* to 2 and parallel to 3 At each rib a coloured strip was sewn on to hold and re-enforce the stitching of the lozenge material to the wing rib. The coloured strip could be either a medium blue or a strip of the same lozenge, often it was the blue on top and the pale lozenge on the under surface of the wing Do the covering slowly, don't rush it. I've only done it on 1/72 so far but I do one section at a time, let it dry, it dries fast in my place, then give it, especially the edge, one coat of Klear type varnish, then I do the next section and so on. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Edmundson Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 some light reading here; https://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=87962&page=1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadway Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, Tony Edmundson said: some light reading here; https://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=87962&page=1 You're not kidding, marking this so I can find it again A little dessert here as well https://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=165128&ord=&page=1 Edited January 20, 2021 by Broadway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 What’s the hair dryer technique exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 20, 2021 Author Share Posted January 20, 2021 22 hours ago, Tony Edmundson said: some light reading here; https://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=87962&page=1 Oh my, that has added another level of complicated! Thanks for showing this though, it took me a few minutes to see the 'thrust line' he was talking about but it's obvious once you know what to look for. 11 hours ago, Broadway said: You're not kidding, marking this so I can find it again A little dessert here as well https://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=165128&ord=&page=1 Another great piece of the lozenge puzzle sorted. 7 hours ago, wombat said: What’s the hair dryer technique exactly? Wingnut Wings recommend that you don't use any decal solutions like Microsol and Microset on their decals to get them to adhere to the details of the kits as the solutions will damage the decals. They recommend using a standard hairdryer to shrink the decals onto the kits. It takes a bit of guts to take a fairly warm blast of air to your kit but it does work. I haven't tried it on a WnW decal yet but have been practicing on decals that I can afford to screw up (so far no screw ups though). If you are going to give it a go I would recommend starting off with the heat setting on a mid to low setting until you get the feel for handling the process. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Interesting. Is that because they consider the method superior in general, or are their particular decals particularly sensitive flowers that can’t abide nasty chemicals like those produced by more ordinary manufacturers? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Duncan, I used WNW lozenge decals on a SCi Fi build. There were complicated curves etc. In my ignorance of hairdriers, I tried Humbrol Decalsoft but they just laughed at that. So I upped the game with the Revell version and achieved the result you see above. No damage occurred. Happy days! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 20 hours ago, wombat said: Interesting. Is that because they consider the method superior in general, or are their particular decals particularly sensitive flowers that can’t abide nasty chemicals like those produced by more ordinary manufacturers? WnW said that the chemicals would destroy the decals. 19 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said: Duncan, I used WNW lozenge decals on a SCi Fi build. There were complicated curves etc. In my ignorance of hairdriers, I tried Humbrol Decalsoft but they just laughed at that. So I upped the game with the Revell version and achieved the result you see above. No damage occurred. Happy days! Looks like they went on without the solution destroying them! It might be that I have to test a small section of the decal and see what happens. Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 20 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said: Duncan, I used WNW lozenge decals on a SCi Fi build. Nice Pete but I see you have still to do the rigging On a more serious note - great topic and informative. I have some such decals to do on the wings of a Fokker DVII. Not sure if the rigging or decaling terrifies me the most 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 The Fokker D,VII has minimal rigging. On each side, one wire from near cockpit to upper wing Cross wires on the u/c and not all D.VIIs had a wire from the fin to each tail plane. I think that depends on the maker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Thompson Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I think some manufacturers, both aftermarket and kitmakers, have on occasion changed their advice regarding setting solutions over time as they (or whoever prints their decals) have changed the process. Rembering who did what and when is a non-trivial process, but at least the hair-drier method works with most regardless. Paul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 17 hours ago, Black Knight said: The Fokker D,VII has minimal rigging. On each side, one wire from near cockpit to upper wing Cross wires on the u/c and not all D.VIIs had a wire from the fin to each tail plane. I think that depends on the maker Thats what I get for buying one, peeking in the box and running away before having a proper look. Every day soemthing new to learn. Thanks - you've given me a drop of courage to go back to it. If the decaling doesn't work there is Hermans all white machine instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 hour ago, JohnT said: Thats what I get for buying one, peeking in the box and running away before having a proper look. Every day soemthing new to learn. Thanks - you've given me a drop of courage to go back to it. If the decaling doesn't work there is Hermans all white machine instead I managed to do the Eduard D.VII in 1.48 scale so 1/32 should be a breeze (He said tongue firmly in cheek with 2 WnW D.VIIs in the stash and untouched!) Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Thompson Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 13 minutes ago, Duncan B said: I managed to do the Eduard D.VII in 1.48 scale so 1/32 should be a breeze (He said tongue firmly in cheek with 2 WnW D.VIIs in the stash and untouched!) Duncan B I did the Valom one, and managed to rig that okay, and I can hardly be described of possessing dexterity of any flavour or form. It's in 1/144th , so I can't imagine anyone having a problem in more civilised scales. (Mind you, the Valom lozenge decal colours are so horrible that it was a total waste of effort - no point my posting a picture as it will disappear next month along with the hosting site). Paul. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 Another quick question related to my decaling. The Albatros D.V I'm doing is from Jasta 18 and the instructions say that it probably had the lozenge painted over on the underside of the wings. Would the lozenge have shown through the light blue paint at all or should I just go ahead and paint the underside without worrying about the lozenge decals first? Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Thompson Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 21 minutes ago, Duncan B said: Another quick question related to my decaling. The Albatros D.V I'm doing is from Jasta 18 and the instructions say that it probably had the lozenge painted over on the underside of the wings. Would the lozenge have shown through the light blue paint at all or should I just go ahead and paint the underside without worrying about the lozenge decals first? Duncan B Aaagh. Worms! Worms! Get them back in the can! I think the biggest factor is how late in the war it was done - the earlier, the better quality and greater abundance of materiels for overpainting. Do you have a photo of the machine in question? It's usually very hard to tell, even with a photo, but at least you can say you did it like the photo............... Paul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodge Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Hi all Anyone know how I can mask over the rib tapes on aviattic lozenge decal without pulling so I can add weathering Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 21 hours ago, Paul Thompson said: Aaagh. Worms! Worms! Get them back in the can! I think the biggest factor is how late in the war it was done - the earlier, the better quality and greater abundance of materiels for overpainting. Do you have a photo of the machine in question? It's usually very hard to tell, even with a photo, but at least you can say you did it like the photo............... Paul. There is a photo in the WnW instructions but all that can be said from that is that the cross's border is the type commonly applied when the original lozenge has been overpainted. The actual surface is not clearly enough defined to say anything other than it has been painted light blue. This build has been stalled for nearly a year because I keep putting off doing the lozenge decaling. I think I am of the mind to just paint the underwings light blue and be damned. That way I can, hopefully, move this one along to the finish line. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Thompson Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Duncan B said: There is a photo in the WnW instructions but all that can be said from that is that the cross's border is the type commonly applied when the original lozenge has been overpainted. The actual surface is not clearly enough defined to say anything other than it has been painted light blue. This build has been stalled for nearly a year because I keep putting off doing the lozenge decaling. I think I am of the mind to just paint the underwings light blue and be damned. That way I can, hopefully, move this one along to the finish line. Duncan B If the photo is indeterminate, unless you really want to save either the time or the lozenge decals, why not apply them anyway (for the practice) and give one coat of overpaint, sit back, sup a beverage of choice, then decide if you like it or want to add another coat? Paul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 15 hours ago, Bodge said: Hi all Anyone know how I can mask over the rib tapes on aviattic lozenge decal without pulling so I can add weathering Cheers As with any decals that you want to mask over make sure they have a good clear coat over them and de-tack the masking tape as much as possible before putting it on, it only needs to be sticky enough to not fall off. I usually re-use old bits of masking tape that I have kept and stick them to the back of my hand a few times to get as much of glue off as possible. Having said all that there are still no guarantees that the tape won't pull off any part of the decals that haven't adhered properly. I think I'm correct in saying that the Aviattic decals are somewhat transparent so you should be able to pre-shade before applying the decals which would be the preferred option in this case. If you've already applied the decals and don't want to risk masking tape cut a piece of card or stiff paper and hold it in place while you spray each side of the ribs individually, more faff but no risk of pealing decals. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 Just now, Paul Thompson said: If the photo is indeterminate, unless you really want to save either the time or the lozenge decals, why not apply them anyway (for the practice) and give one coat of overpaint, sit back, sup a beverage of choice, then decide if you like it or want to add another coat? Paul. You are quite right, that's what I should do and that was my original plan so that I got some risk free decaling practice. I shall have a think about it (again lol), another coupe of days isn't going to hurt. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Thompson Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Duncan B said: I think I'm correct in saying that the Aviattic decals are somewhat transparent so you should be able to pre-shade before applying the decals which would be the preferred option in this case. If you've already applied the decals and don't want to risk masking tape cut a piece of card or stiff paper and hold it in place while you spray each side of the ribs individually, more faff but no risk of pealing decals. Duncan B Most Aviattic decals come in two versions - normal ones (i.e. with a white backing to make them opaque) and translucent ones that must be undercoated appropriately, and indeed the intention is to allow you to pre-weather them to taste. Paul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 Stop!!!!!! Longenze 5 colors Longenze 4 bcolors Try it this way! You have no headache! If you need instruction how to do it, so ask please! Forget decals. Never work properly. Happy modelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now