Lord Riot Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Does anyone know what the best spray cans are for the dark sea grey and dark green gloss camo of 1950s and 60s RAF jets? I use Tamiya AS-30 dark green for my 80s jets in 1/48, but I’ll need the same shade in gloss for older ones. Similarly I use a satin DSG spray but need it glossier. Most of the spray cans on eBay, etc seem to be matt or auto paints, can anyone recommend the best brand and shades please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 4 hours ago, Lord Riot said: Does anyone know what the best spray cans are for the dark sea grey and dark green gloss camo of 1950s and 60s RAF jets? I use Tamiya AS-30 dark green for my 80s jets in 1/48, but I’ll need the same shade in gloss for older ones. Similarly I use a satin DSG spray but need it glossier. Most of the spray cans on eBay, etc seem to be matt or auto paints, can anyone recommend the best brand and shades please? You could try these https://www.riolettcustomaerosols.co.uk/ John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 If you've already got the colours you need, a coat or two of gloss varnish should do the trick? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa4ways Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) I was going to ask about the Gloster Javelin and the Dark Sea Grey, Airfix have it down as Humbrol Dark Sea Grey 164, I don't use Humbrol paints, I only use Vallejo paints, but as I want to keep the colour as right as I can, what would be the Vallejo colour of Sea Grey be please I'm only asking, simply because I'm colour blind, I can normally manage, but with the lockdown, I can't get the help I need (my original message amended) As always, any and all help appreciated Edited January 16, 2021 by Papa4ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 I have a bottle of Vallejo Model Colour 991 159 as Dark Sea Grey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hadland Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Papa4ways said: I was going to ask about the Gloster Javelin and the Dark Sea Grey, Airfix have it down as Humbrol Dark Sea Grey 30, I don't use Humbrol paints, I only use Vallejo paints, but as I want to keep the colour as right as I can, what would be the Vallejo colour of Sea Grey be please I'm only asking, simply because I'm colour blind, I can normally manage, but with the lockdown, I can't get the help I need As always, any and all help appreciated According to my lists Humbrol 30 is Dark Green which for Vallejo is 895, Matt Sea Grey is Humbrol 27 which is Vallejo 992. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa4ways Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, David Hadland said: According to my lists Humbrol 30 is Dark Green which for Vallejo is 895, Matt Sea Grey is Humbrol 27 which is Vallejo 992. Hope this helps Trust me, I've gone and written the wrong number, I know the dark green is 30, but what I meant to write was Humbrol 164 Dark Sea Grey, sorry about that, I'll amend my original message, it's been one of those days, and here was me thinking it was over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hadland Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Papa4ways said: Trust me, I've gone and written the wrong number, I know the dark green is 30, but what I meant to write was Humbrol 164 Dark Sea Grey, sorry about that, I'll amend my original message, it's been one of those days, and here was me thinking it was over Well that makes a bit more sense, I haven't got a listing for a Vallejo paint equivalent. I'd suggest you change it to Humbrol Satin Extra Dark Sea Grey as to me they are very similar, the Vallejo number for that is 994. Again hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 45 minutes ago, Black Knight said: I have a bottle of Vallejo Model Colour 991 159 as Dark Sea Grey Despite the name 991 is too light for RAF dark sea grey. Also for RAF dark green Vallejo 895 is not suitable, even worse a match the Humbrol 30 is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Riot Posted January 17, 2021 Author Share Posted January 17, 2021 13 hours ago, canberra kid said: You could try these https://www.riolettcustomaerosols.co.uk/ John Perfect John, thanks! What green do you use for the RAF camo? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Humbrol 30 is one of the world's greatest crimes against RAF models. It's funny how you can always spot a model that's been painted with it at a glance. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Riot Posted January 17, 2021 Author Share Posted January 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said: Humbrol 30 is one of the world's greatest crimes against RAF models. It's funny how you can always spot a model that's been painted with it at a glance. What is the correct BS381 number for RAF green Jamie? Would a 50s Hunter for example and an 80s Jaguar be the same green but the Hunter glossy and Jag matt? Or is it more complicated than that?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 45 minutes ago, Lord Riot said: What is the correct BS381 number for RAF green Jamie? Would a 50s Hunter for example and an 80s Jaguar be the same green but the Hunter glossy and Jag matt? Or is it more complicated than that?! BS381C-241 There are persistent anecdotal accounts of differences along the way, but whilst I am quite happy to accept they are/were real these relatively minor differences do not appear intentional and indeed may be within the ranges one might expect for a so-called "commercial match". Unless you intend to compare factory fresh finishes between models of different types I personally wouldn't lose too much sleep over it! You have to get to the nominal film thickness to assure full opacity first anyway otherwise undertones from your primer will slightly affect your model as it would the fullsize aircraft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Unlike Jamie I'm not an expert on these things (no sycophancy just true!) but I think a few things have been missed in this developing discussion. First, I believe that the underlying formulations of paint - the "paint technology" if you like - has changed over the years and this has led to differences in hue/shade/tone of what is meant to be the same colour. Next, for modelling purposes, the effect of scale colour - which can be argued about endlessly. Then there is the actual application of the colour on the a/c - I'm thinking of the F-4Es at Alconbury show in 1984(?) - all used the same gray but looked totally different in hue and finish -apparently the reason was different spray pressures in the spray guns.. Finally, there's the shape of the a/c and how light reflects off it. For years there was a bit of a consensus that the Lightning F-2As in RAFG were an unusual dark green. and not the usual RAFG colour. A few years ago I built, side by side an F-2A and an F-4 FGR.2; brand new tin of HU163, painted one after the other, 1 coat of Halfords grey, 2 coats each of the HU163 and looking at them now they still look totally different. A question - what colour are our special Hercs - the dark green ones? Also - I'm happy to use HU116 if I have run out of Hu163. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Riot Posted January 17, 2021 Author Share Posted January 17, 2021 Thanks gents, great info and discussion. I’ve just ordered a gloss BS381-241 dark green and gloss dark sea grey for 50s jets, and another satin dark sea grey for 80s ones. Interesting point about the RAFG Lightnings Iain, I’ve never really known what green they are! They always look darker than the standard green in RAF camo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 I was heard that the tone of green on the Lightnings was caused by regular washing down with copious amounts of WD40 - if that was tried as a weathering technique I wonder if there'd be a model left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alhenderson Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 On 17/01/2021 at 10:29, Lord Riot said: Thanks gents, great info and discussion. I’ve just ordered a gloss BS381-241 dark green and gloss dark sea grey for 50s jets, and another satin dark sea grey for 80s ones. Interesting point about the RAFG Lightnings Iain, I’ve never really known what green they are! They always look darker than the standard green in RAF camo. I'd always thought they were a different green, but having got hold of an Airfix F.2A the instructions certainly call for 'normal' RAF dark green. Maybe it looks darker when the whole a/c is painted in it, rather than alongside grey? Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Having seen one in a Warton hangar, I thought it was a brighter green that RAF dark green, but that it was the standard RAF Dark Green has been established for some time now. Admittedly, the currently-common Jaguars were then being painted in a particularly dark shade of dark green, and as I wasn't aware of this at the time it presumably affected my judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 hour ago, alhenderson said: I'd always thought they were a different green, but having got hold of an Airfix F.2A the instructions certainly call for 'normal' RAF dark green. Maybe it looks darker when the whole a/c is painted in it, rather than alongside grey? Al. Al Check my 2 posts just above _ I'm pretty sure they give a fair reason for the Lightning F.2A green issue. Dick Ward on his Modeldecal sheets also gave it as standard Dark Green. I also think it's something to do with the slab sided design of the fuselage and how light reflects off it. Pm if you want me to go further. Iain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Could be pulling this out of my behind but I think I read that RAFG lightnings had an infra red reduction coating over the green that shifts the sheen of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglierating Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 On 1/17/2021 at 3:55 PM, iainpeden said: I was heard that the tone of green on the Lightnings was caused by regular washing down with copious amounts of WD40 - if that was tried as a weathering technique I wonder if there'd be a model left? PX 24 i would imagine is what they used.....similar but different to WD40 ....ive cab wiped that stuff for god knows how many hours....Daily whilst on 772 NAS ....on account of the maritime environment at Portland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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