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Black Cat Models 1/350 accessories - experiences?


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Hi, I am usually building 1/48th aircraft but recently bought the Trumpeter Buckley Class destroyer kit with the aim of building HMS Rupert, the Captain Class Frigate my Grandfather served on. to give to my Dad. This is likely to be a one off build for me unless I get the " ship bug"  so I bought the WEM brass fret as I definitely want to add railings and the like.  I'm OK with etched brass, and have a proper folding tool already but the Oerlikons and the like look a little daunting, and also a little 2D, so I've been looking at the 3D printed Black cat range.    Has anyone used these in 1/350?  The pictures look OK and certainly better than the kit plastic, but do they have "printing ridges" or are they nice clean prints?  Lockdown and full employment means I am lucky enough to have some spending money for this project so don't mind replacing all the weapons on the ship with these if they are any good.  Thanks.

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Hi, Black Cat is equal quality with Newzealander manufacturer, Micro Master. These two companies are really best.  Sometimes Black Cat i sligtly worse especially when we comare boats or rafts.  Micro Master's boats have terrific planking and rescue ropes. But no worry, Black Cat's Oerlikons are excellent, you can show it's one photo in my HMS Jed WIP thread (twins on the left are by Micromaster):

P1050442.JPG.32b74fdadcf82999e87e737eecf

 

Sometimes you can see "printing ridges" on some surfaces, but it REALLY minimum and not worth worrying about.

Consider buing main guns, and smoke-generators  (catal.nr AC350025b), (and rafts + torpedo tubes?) as well. Guns in model are rather basic, in contrast to 3D parts.

PS. Five Star made huge PE set for England, but it doesn't contain parts for english ships. Here you have review:

http://www.steelnavy.net/5StarEngland350FBustelo.html

 

I have one ot these "tin cans" in mu plans too - as USS Jenks with "dazzle" camo and extra 4 Boforses guns.

 

Best regards, Michal.

 

Edited by socjo1
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Thanks Michal, that's really helpful and has convinced me to part with some cash with Black Cat!  I'm not sure I would enjoy the volume of etched brass in that Five Star set - far too many opportunities to destroy PE or glue it to my fingers.  I enjoyed reading through your linked build too. This is getting dangerous, with 120 " must build" unbuilt 1/48th aircraft stashed in my attic, but ship modelling is piquing my interest a great deal.....

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I can wholeheartedly  recommend Black Cat parts, so much so that they've completely changed my way of thinking regarding 1/350 kits.

 

I initially ordered some parts to add to a Trumpeter HMS Eskimo, namely the 25ft motor cutter & 25ft fast motor boat to replace the totally inaccurate  Kriegsmarine style boats in the Trumpy kit, as I was replacing the motor boats I thought it best to replace the 27ft whaler too, and while I was at it I also got a set of Quad 2 pdr. Pom Pom to replace the  incorrect Octuple mount supplied in the kit.. 

 

On opening the package I was totally blown away by the level of detail, and as most sets include mulitiples of each item, I almost immediately went out and bought a HMCS Huron kit so that I could use the extra ones, trouble is that then made me look at the other details in the kit that needed improving, so I put in another order in for more parts to replace the Quad mount Vickers 0.50'' MG's , the twin 4"/45 guns, together with the twin and single 20mm Oerlikon guns.

 

If you do Facebook, take a look at their page, lots more Royal Navy goodies (including more Tribal Class parts) coming soon: 

 

https://www.facebook.com/BlackCatModels.eu/

 

At this rate my Trumby Tribals will be Trumpy/Black Cat hybrids. 

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Cheers Ant , my order is going in tonight.  I'll be getting the Oerlikons, the 3 inch guns, the 4 barrelled 1.1 inch AA gun , the hedgehog, and probably also the depth charge throwers and rails too. I have the boats from WEM. Going to be a tidy bill but these do seem impressive and good value with the numbers in the pack.  I'm on a days holiday today and given I have lost 2 PE parts already from a 1/48th Devastator due to "tweezer ping" so I think these are the way to go for me!

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Did you see these two books?

7399906681673.jpg

This book is devoted mainly to their service in RN. Manly text, insert contains about 30 photos.

519Q0WAMX5L._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Lot of great photos - close ups and full silhuettes, plans and plenty of infromations about design and short notices + photos about every Buckley class ship. 

 

...And of course Anathomy of the ship is always worth to see.

Best regards,

Michal

 

 

 

Edited by socjo1
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Neil,

The RN didn't use the American 1.1" quad gun mount. You need 3" 50cal; 40mm Bofors (twin) and 20mm Oerlikon (single and maybe twin mounts)

I've also got some Black Cat and microMaster goodies for future build and, was totally gobsmacked by the detail.

Tom

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22 hours ago, AntPhillips said:

I can wholeheartedly  recommend Black Cat parts, so much so that they've completely changed my way of thinking regarding 1/350 kits.

 

I initially ordered some parts to add to a Trumpeter HMS Eskimo, namely the 25ft motor cutter & 25ft fast motor boat to replace the totally inaccurate  Kriegsmarine style boats in the Trumpy kit, as I was replacing the motor boats I thought it best to replace the 27ft whaler too, and while I was at it I also got a set of Quad 2 pdr. Pom Pom to replace the  incorrect Octuple mount supplied in the kit.. 

 

On opening the package I was totally blown away by the level of detail, and as most sets include mulitiples of each item, I almost immediately went out and bought a HMCS Huron kit so that I could use the extra ones, trouble is that then made me look at the other details in the kit that needed improving, so I put in another order in for more parts to replace the Quad mount Vickers 0.50'' MG's , the twin 4"/45 guns, together with the twin and single 20mm Oerlikon guns.

 

If you do Facebook, take a look at their page, lots more Royal Navy goodies (including more Tribal Class parts) coming soon: 

 

https://www.facebook.com/BlackCatModels.eu/

 

At this rate my Trumby Tribals will be Trumpy/Black Cat hybrids. 

 

Totally share your views Ant, about changing way of thinking regarding 1/350 kits.  The detail on this gneration of 3D printed parts has to be seen to be believed.  FWIW I thinkk Micromaster have the edge on detail especially in the boat range.  I'm hoping that Black Cat will release some printed crew figures soon  

Happy Days

Diawn

Rob

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19 hours ago, socjo1 said:

Did you see these two books?

7399906681673.jpg

This book is devoted mainly to their service in RN. Manly text, insert contains about 30 photos.

519Q0WAMX5L._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Lot of great photos - close ups and full silhuettes, plans and plenty of infromations about design and short notices + photos about every Buckley class ship. 

 

...And of course Anathomy of the ship is always worth to see.

Best regards,

Michal

 

 

 

I have the first book and the anatomy of the ship - the first book is a great read given my Grandad dies when I was a baby so I never has the chance to hear of his experiences in Rupert.

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17 hours ago, Modelholic said:

Neil,

The RN didn't use the American 1.1" quad gun mount. You need 3" 50cal; 40mm Bofors (twin) and 20mm Oerlikon (single and maybe twin mounts)

I've also got some Black Cat and microMaster goodies for future build and, was totally gobsmacked by the detail.

Tom

Hi Tom,

According to the book mentioned above, the Captain Class Frigates kept the 1.1" AA gun ( despite it's shortcomings) for most of the war. Some were retrofitted with Bofors as they became available but as far as I can ascertain HSM Rupert didn't.

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43 minutes ago, neilh said:

Hi Tom,

According to the book mentioned above, the Captain Class Frigates kept the 1.1" AA gun ( despite it's shortcomings) for most of the war. Some were retrofitted with Bofors as they became available but as far as I can ascertain HSM Rupert didn't.

 

From B.H. Franklin's The Buckley-class destroyer escorts, pp. 33-34:

Quote

Only two US Buckley-class DEs (the firs two delivered, DEs51 and 153) received a 40mm gun; in addition eight lend-leas Buckleys (ex-DEs 52, 55 , 58, 61, 64, 67, 77 and 84) were so equipped. All other ships of the class had a 1.1-inc quad, except for remaining thirty-eight lend-lease vessels, which were transferred without any weapon installed (most of these ships added a 20 mm gun in the X position and another in its empty director station). A very few ships did have the 1.1-inch quad replaced with a 40 mm twin mount during wartime.

 

HTH,

Regards, Michal.

Edited by socjo1
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Thanks for the correction, Both.

It's true you learn something new everyday!

Tom

Although Black Cat and MicroMaster are superb I hope for a more local company in the future to negate the shipping and import stuff.

Edited by Modelholic
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Hi Tom - have you tried Starling Models?  They stock Black Cat. I only ordered direct this time because I needed 4 of the depth charge rails and they were currently out of stock. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not sure if you're still on this model Neil, but have you seen this link?

 

 

 

Dave

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Yes thanks Dave- I bookmarked than one and also had some useful help from one of the contributors to the thread.

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There's more than a few on here with connections to the Captain class, is that because the crews were predominantly Hostilities Only I wonder?

 

Dave

 

PS I can also recommend the Black Cat bits, bought a few for my Warspite build, excellent quality.

Edited by Coors54
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Neil

Welcome to the wonderful world of Captains Class Frigates! I am not certain from the posts above that you would be clear on Rupert’s weapon fit as a Buckley- based Captain. As of the end of the war, Rupert was fitted with the usual 3 x 3 inch 50 as the main armament. RN Captains never carried the atrocious 1.1 inch and only a lucky few carried the twin 40mm - Rupert was not one of these. Rupert was eventually fitted with ten single 20mm, at least she was in the photos on page 119 and 122 of Franklin’s ‘Buckley Class’ mentioned above. One mount was fitted in the empty 1.1 inch position, and another in the director tower just aft of this, the others in the usual positions in the four waist tubs and four before the bridge. These would have been RN fixed pedestal type mounts, not the elevating trunnion USN type originally fitted. The RN replaced the original mounts as they required excessive maintenance to remain operational at sea, and required an additional gun crew member to operate the elevating mechanism. Rupert had HF/DF at the mast head and was also fitted with the oiling fairleads forward, additional carley float stowage and would have had Foxer acoustic torpedo decoy gear mounted aft besides the depth charge rails. Rupert carried a full complement of four two-tiered 30 charge stowage racks, two each side of the aft superstructure and 3 inch gun mount. In the photos mentioned above Rupert seems to be in the Type C camouflage typical of the 21st Escort Group at the end of the war - the B55 light blue panel on the hull is faint but noticeable in the photo on page 119, the photo on page 122 seems to show a single tone but its really hard to tell with B55 in many photos as it is very close to the overall white in tone. The ships kept a boot topping, much of the deck gear such as fairleads and bitts etc were painted the same dark colour as the deck, presumably RN deck grey, and Rupert’s 3 inch gun barrels were also a dark colour, possibly black.

 

No bridge lookout tower for Rupert, no bow chaser 2pdr or shield forward, and only ‘B’ 3 inch mount has a gun shield with rocket flare launchers attached. RN whaler in quadrantial davits to port, either the original USN 26 foot motor whaler to starboard, or possibly an RN pattern 25 foot motor boat.

 

hope this helps

 

Steve (still plugging away at Conn)

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@Stephen Allen, lot of thanks for very detailed informations! I'll print your text and put into Franklin's book. And have you maybe some tips about USS Jenks? I know she carried additional Boforses - and 1.1 inch quad as well?

Edited by socjo1
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Hi socjo

 

I forgot to mention, no torpedo tubes on Captains either. Sorry, but I haven’t researched any of the US Buckleys, its hard enough coming to grips with the numerous changes made to the RN units.

 

Neil - I forgot some minor details which you may or may not wish to include at 1/350. Many Captains, at least in later war photos, have a fit out of RN style non-directional signalling lights on top of the yardarm, visible in photos as little dots. The USN style ‘fighting lights’ on the mast also seem to have been removed, I presume because they played no part in RN signalling or Identification procedures. The mountings are there but the units are gone.There is also an IFF transponder fitted at the masthead, just below the HF/DF unit, and two angled outriggers fitted to the mast at about the same level.  Finally, most Captains in the escort role rigged a canvas and wood shelter, sort of a small tent, attached to the base of the after 3 inch gun tub. This was apparently a weather shelter for the depth charge crews. All this is general advice, each Captain varied in detail depending on how much opportunity and tactical need there was to undertake such changes, what role was being undertaken (eg, escort or coastal forces control), and when in the war you are planning to model the ship. The position of the additional equipment changes from ship to ship also, particularly fittings like the additional life raft supports and the depth charge stowage. I assume it depended on when and where it was fitted, and also on input from the ship’s CO on where it should go.

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Thanks for all this exhaustive information Stephen.   I have been looking to see if I can get a copy of the Franklin book but they are all horrifically expensive!.  Are the photos you mention on pages 119 and 122 very clear?  Most of the ones I have  found of Ruperts are taken from quite a distance.  My Dad has a few small pictures taken by my Grandfather when he served on board.  One is labelled " me and my gun" . I must get these from him and have a closer look for detail.

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Hi Neil

 

I wouldn’t suggest buying the book on the basis of two photos. One of the images is available on Navsource.org and I have seen the other, the one with a crippled HMS Redmill in the foreground, online also, having just checked. The photos in the book are not much clearer than the images available on the web. Interestingly the navsource image ( the one on page 122 of Franklin) is taken from starboard, and shows what looks like a 25 foot motor boat stowed, at least a boat with a square cut transom, rather than the original USN style motor whaler. I’d love to establish that for HMS Conn, as it would add further interest to the finished model to have a complete outfit of RN style boats. I can also add to the list of plans available for Captains. Sarik Hobbies offers a 1/60 scale plan of HMS Rowley, but apparently the plan, drawn by a modeller for his RC build, shows the ship in its original fit as delivered from the US. I found this out courtesy of the ModelBoatMayhem website, where there is another modeller collecting research material to build a Captain.

 

I will also recheck my other sources to see if there are any other photos of Rupert that turn up.

 

cheers

 

Steve

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Thanks Steve, I have that photo of Rupert with the Redmill ( I think you put me on to it!).  Once again, the extra information is appreciated.  The Black Cat parts are due here this week so then I can start prepping to build.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

As mentioned I do stock Black Cat Models but I am currently taking an extended break which will include some changes to the business.  Hopefully this will mean higher stocking levels of fewer brands to try and help out with those issues of getting deliveries from the EU. 

 

Mike

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