Gunther Lutzow Me109F2 - are the Print Scale decals Accurate?

[Mr Ferguson]

How do All, 

 

I have finally got around to starting up this hobby again after what was a terrible year (for everyone) and I am enjoying it very much, first go with PE parts and I am happy with the results for my first try.

 

Currently for my first build of this year, I have built up the Revell ME109 F2, but I am stuck at the paint scheme.

 

I have brought some aftermarket decals - Print Scale PSL72254 and am looking to use the Gunther Lutzow scheme that they have provided. 

 

Can anyone help with the accuracy of these decal sheets, as all reference photos I can find all have tail kill markings and also the JG3 emblem near the cockpit, which is included in the decal sheet but not on the Scheme call out.

 

I was thinking the usual RLM 02 and RLM 70/71 on the wings, RLM 65 on the lower fuselage, yellow on the nose, but the decals just don't seem to match up with the reference photos I can find. This is the June 1941 in Poland.

 

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/PSL72254

 

Scheme Number 2 on the attached.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated, the model is built and primed, but I don't want to end up having to strip back paint if I get it wrong.

 

I just figure consult the experts before I go in too hastily!

 

This is where I am up too, Eduard cockpit Photo Etch set, fuselage put together and primed, needs a touch of filler and sanding but nothing major.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks in Advance.

 

Mr F 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Mr Ferguson
Wrong Link Supplied

[Werdna]

2 hours ago, Mr Ferguson said:

 

I was thinking the usual RLM 02 and RLM 70/71 on the wings, RLM 65 on the lower fuselage

 

Hi Mr F - Hopefully the experts will be along shortly.  However, in the meantime,  I think the possibility of the mid-war 74/75/76 colours should also be considered.  Mid 1941 is right about the time where the switchover from the earlier 71/02/65 patterns happened.

[Crimea River]

I would agree with Werdna but would suggest that 74/75/76 is not just possible but rather likely. 

[Mr Ferguson]

1 hour ago, Werdna said:

 

Hi Mr F - Hopefully the experts will be along shortly.  However, in the meantime,  I think the possibility of the mid-war 74/75/76 colours should also be considered.  Mid 1941 is right about the time where the switchover from the earlier 71/02/65 patterns happened.

 

1 hour ago, Crimea River said:

I would agree with Werdna but would suggest that 74/75/76 is not just possible but rather likely. 

 

Great stuff thank you very much. 

 

From the research I have read there are a couple of dates "On 7 May 1941, Lützow's Bf 109 F-2 (Werknummer 8117—factory number) suffered minor damage in combat when his tail surfaces were shot up" so I assume that this would have been repaired and used again. 

 

"In preparation for Operation Barbarossa, the German invasion of the Soviet Union, the Geschwaderstab began heading east on 8 June 1941. They stopped for several days at Breslau-Gandau, the present day Wrocław–Copernicus Airport in Poland" Would this be around the time that they had a new paint job? Or were the F2's already painted in 74/75/76 when issued out.

 

Then there is this - "On 18 June, the Geschwaderstab relocated to Hostynne, from where on 22 June 1941, Lützow led JG 3 in combat against the Soviet Union." so its this one I am looking for to make sure there was accurate colours on the plane.

 

Also regarding the decals, I can only find these 2 reference photos; 

 

 

 

and 

 

 

 

This is what the Decal sheet is calling for (scheme 2)

 

 

The triple chevrons seem to be correct, I can take the JG3 squadron marking from another scheme provided with this set. 

 

[Werdna]

1 hour ago, Mr Ferguson said:

Or were the F2's already painted in 74/75/76 when issued out.

 

Most likely already factory painted in 74/5/6, is my guess.   Also, the decal sheet above appears to show a 74/5/6 scheme as well..

[Mr Ferguson]

Thank you very much.

 

Now just need to double check all decals are correct for the time. 

 

 

[Werdna]

Talking of decals, just a thought on the triple chevrons.  The fact that the decal scheme shows them in white - when the photo shows them in black - does tend to call into question the veracity of the decal scheme.  Unless there are other examples of white chevrons, which may be worth checking..?

[Mr Ferguson]

42 minutes ago, Werdna said:

Talking of decals, just a thought on the triple chevrons.  The fact that the decal scheme shows them in white - when the photo shows them in black - does tend to call into question the veracity of the decal scheme.  Unless there are other examples of white chevrons, which may be worth checking..?

 

I noticed that too. The only thing I can think is this photo is earlier / later than the F2 version I have built up. 

 

I do fear your right about the authenticity of the decals, I'd been thinking the same thing since I've been looking around for reference pics. I've looked back at th decal sheet and there are double chevrons in black, and a large single one I might be able to bodge together should I need too... 

 

I really appreciate your help with this. 

[Mr Ferguson]

I have just found this reference picture where the 3 chevrons are in white, this picture is dated July 1941 in Ukraine... 

 

 

curiouser and curiouser said Alice

Edited January 12, 2021 by Mr Ferguson

[G.R.Morrison]

Mr. Ferguson,

Lützow was using three similarly-painted Bf 109F-2s in the Spring/summer of 1941.

 

WNr.8117 (Erla-built, Stammkennzeichen: “DE+FT”), this one had the ‘square’-style wheel wells, as seen on the earlier 109E).  This one had been damaged 7.May 1941 on the Kanal front, then again damaged on 16.July 1941 in a belly-landing near Polonnoje.

 

WNr.5742 – this Messerschmitt-Regensburg F-1 was passed-along to the 6./JG 51

 

WNr.9624 – this one was later lost while serving with the 11./JG 51

 

There are multiple photos of your decal-subject (which is probably 8117), with the weiße ‘triple-Winkel', from both sides of the machine.  The earliest photos show the cowl to be gelb, but later, camouflaged.

 

The photos in your second post:

 

His ‘last’ Bf 109F-2 was the WNr.9704 (Arado-Warnemünde built, Stammkennzeichen “SG+MR”) which he ‘inherited’ from JG 51’s then-Kommodore Friedrich Beckh, when he was placed in temporary command of the JG 51 (Beckh had suffered a foot wound, which had become infected, and Lützow’s ‘own’ Gruppen were at this time far-dispersed).  He’d made his 101. claim on 24.October 1941 on his 272. Feindflug and the rudder was decorated for the PK photographer.

 

The machine with the schwarze ‘triple-Winkel’ may be his F-4, WNr.10098, from late May 1942, or another F-2 (these ol' orbs couldn't determine whether the octane triangle read 'C3' or '87')

 

Good luck with your build, GRM

“Ich bin kein ‘Expert,’ nur Historiker.”

Edited January 12, 2021 by G.R.Morrison
tweak text

[Troy Smith]

6 hours ago, Mr Ferguson said:

I have brought some aftermarket decals - Print Scale PSL72254 and am looking to use the Gunther Lutzow scheme that they have provided. 

 

Can anyone help with the accuracy of these decal sheets, as all reference photos I can find all have tail kill markings and also the JG3 emblem near the cockpit, which is included in the decal sheet but not on the Scheme call out.

 Print Scale and accuracy are not a common combination.....  You are wise to ask as to their veracity!  

 

I can't any more specifically,  excpet that you may find better responses if the header question is "Bf109F-2 Gunther Lutzow- accuracy of Print Scale decals"

 

as for the photos show both black and white chevrons,  two different planes?  A repaint?   Hard to tell from a limited view. 

 

Welcome to the research rabbit hole.....  and, yes, sometimes we do go through the looking glass....

 

[Mr Ferguson]

14 minutes ago, G.R.Morrison said:

Mr. Ferguson,

Lützow was using three similarly-painted Bf 109F-2s in the Spring/summer of 1941.

 

WNr.8117 (Erla-built, Stammkennzeichen: “DE+FT”), this one had the ‘square’-style wheel wells, as seen on the earlier 109E).  This one had been damaged 7.May 1941 on the Kanal front, then again damaged on 16.July 1941 in a belly-landing near Polonnoje.

 

WNr.5742 – this Messerschmitt-Regensburg F-1 was passed-along to the 6./JG 51

 

WNr.9624 – this one was later lost while serving with the 11./JG 51

 

There are multiple photos of your decal-subject (which is probably 8117), with the weiße ‘triple-Winkel', from both sides of the machine.  The earliest photos show the cowl to be gelb, but later, camouflaged.

 

The photos in your second post:

 

His ‘last’ Bf 109F-2 was the WNr.9704 (Arado-Warnemünde built, Stammkennzeichen “SG+MR”) which he ‘inherited’ from JG 51’s then-Kommodore Friedrich Beckh, when he was placed in temporary command of the JG 51 (Beckh had suffered a foot wound, which had become infected, and Lützow’s ‘own’ Gruppen were at this time far-dispersed).  He’d made his 101. claim on 24.October 1941 on his 272. Feindflug and the rudder was decorated for the PK photographer.

 

The machine with the schwarze ‘triple-Winkel’ may be his F-4, WNr.10098, from late May 1942, or another F-2 (these ol' orbs couldn't determine whether the octane triangle read 'C3' or '87')

 

Good luck with your build, GRM

“Ich bin kein ‘Expert,’ nur Historiker.”

 

 

Wow thank you very very much! Thats amazing information!

 

Would 8117 be in the 74/75/76 scheme, or the earlier 70/71/65?  

 

I have had a closer look and it does look like "C3" to me.

[Mr Ferguson]

18 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

 Print Scale and accuracy are not a common combination.....  You are wise to ask as to their veracity!  

 

I can't any more specifically,  excpet that you may find better responses if the header question is "Bf109F-2 Gunther Lutzow- accuracy of Print Scale decals"

 

as for the photos show both black and white chevrons,  two different planes?  A repaint?   Hard to tell from a limited view. 

 

Welcome to the research rabbit hole.....  and, yes, sometimes we do go through the looking glass....

 

 

Thank you, for your help. It really is a down the rabbit hole project, but I am really, really enjoying building again. 

 

I'm really grateful to all the people who have replied, it really is helping me on the scheme. 

 

Mr F