Graham Boak Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Claudio: so far this thread has only shown the Hawker information for the Mk.I, and StevSmar's reconstruction of the Mk.II. I'd still like to see what AL Bentley made of this, although I don't recall a Mk.II front view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) Graham, if I'm not mistaken, @Gomtuu described what drawing no. 108452 says about the Mk. II radiator housing. That part number is cross referenced in the extract from the Schedule of Spare Parts posted by @StevSmar. Could we say we are almost there, although we have not seen the actual drawing? Of course, the more, the better. Edited January 15, 2021 by ClaudioN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) Maybe this could be of interest? I was at last able to find the Spitfire tropical radiator thread here on BM, where it is said that Spitfire tropical radiator frontal area was greater by 8%. Looking at the images posted by @StevSmar, my eyeball analysis suggests that the intake areas of the two Mk. II radiator fairings might differ by a similar amount. Edited January 15, 2021 by ClaudioN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 17 hours ago, ClaudioN said: ...where it is said that Spitfire tropical radiator frontal area was greater by 8%.... Looking at the images posted by @StevSmar, my eyeball analysis suggests that the intake areas of the two Mk. II radiator fairings might differ by a similar amount.... I can definitely say that what I posted won't be accurate to 8%... More likely 15% at the very best. I found some photos of RCAF 5389: It sure doesn't have the flat sides like we've seen in other MkII pictures. (I don't know if the solder blobs were done by the restoration crew or if these were wartime repairs) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 On 1/15/2021 at 4:15 AM, Graham Boak said: ... I'd still like to see what AL Bentley made of this, although I don't recall a Mk.II front view When I corresponded with AL Bentley in the early 90's, he sent me copies of his rough layout drawings where he'd overlaid the features from different Mk's of Hurricane (Prototype overlaid on MkI, MkII and MkIV overlaid). This is an excerpt from the MkII/IV rough layout drawing: 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Thank you Steve. I guess that's pretty convincing, although just where does this other variant come from? Now we need a large supply of accurate Mk.II radiators. Freightdog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, StevSmar said: I can definitely say that what I posted won't be accurate to 8%... More likely 15% at the very best. Well, I just had a look at the photo you posted showing overlaid radiators, placed a ruler on the PC screen, measured the height of the two openings, then computed the ratio. That's accuracy at its extreme, don't you think? 😉 1 hour ago, StevSmar said: I found some photos of RCAF 5389: Interesting: the radiator on 5389 has a honeycomb structure, exactly like the oil cooler. The radiator on KX829 has fins instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 16, 2021 Author Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Graham Boak said: although just where does this other variant come from? Canada. Every Canadian Mk.XII (or Canadian IIb) I have seen has the rounded side radiator. It maybe just the CCF just made a jig based on the Mk.I which has the same curved corners. I suspect it's one of those things that made no difference to function, in they way that the CM/1 and ES/9 Rotol spinners are seen fitted throughout the war too all Merlin XX Hurricane variants, and so has not been commented on. The only people it is of concern to is detail and accuracy interested modellers...... I sent @airjiml2 a message, as he has studied Canadian Hurricanes https://www.ascalecanadian.com/2007/10/rcaf-hawker-hurricanes-part-1.html https://www.ascalecanadian.com/2015/06/the-sea-hurricane-in-canada.html I had spotted this rounded corners in this image a while back and wondered if it was a Sea hurricane IC at a training unit, as it wasn't a 'Mk.II' radiator.... https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235064832-hurricane-iic-lf-363-canon-stubs-camera-port/#elControls_3525450_menu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Probably not of any use to this discussion, but here are a couple photos I took of a couple Hurricanes in Canadian museums. The first was taken back in`88, at the CWH museum. I can`t remember if this survived the fire a few years later or not. This one was taken back in 2008, at The Reynolds Museum, in Wetaskiwin, Alberta. Chris 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Line Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 A useful photograph of the Science Museum Hurricane with view of the radiator. The photograph also very clearly shows the dH spinner, contained within the cowl collar. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 For some reason I just can't get past a Hurricane with no spinner and a Hamilton Std. prop...just looks so wrong somehow! Great photos, though- thanks for posting them! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 (edited) Not helping with this discussion, though I like this image anyway as it's one of the few which shows how the radiator is made: From Canada Aviation and Space Museum. So when they made the jigs for the MkII, they would have just increased the height of the jig and maybe the contours were just a by-product? Edited January 19, 2021 by StevSmar I like editing, it makes people think care is going into my posts...LOL. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Line Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 When looking for something else I stumbled upon the website of Replicore New Zealand who have a very interesting section on their restored Hurricane radiators. Essentially it seems there were different shaped tubes for the Mk I and Mk II, the latter being more efficient. The Mk II type above Below Mk II types in Mk I core : A slideshow with annotations linked below: https://www.replicore.co.nz/gallery/MK1-and-MK2-Hawker-Hurricane-radiator-and-oil-cooler-cores/20 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 The Arma Hobby artwork for the Mk.IIC and Mk.IIC/IIB boxes show the "rectangular" radiator intake, so someone else has noticed. However the kit for the Mk.IIC contains an elliptical intake (Canadian style). I presume the same is true for the later boxings. I have sent a message to them about this thread, so let's wait and see what (if anything) happens. The next thing here is perhaps to take a file or two to various kits' radiators and see how much closer to the rectangular ones they can be with a little tlc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) On 1/26/2021 at 6:00 AM, Graham Boak said: The Arma Hobby artwork for the Mk.IIC and Mk.IIC/IIB boxes show the "rectangular" radiator intake, so someone else has noticed. However the kit for the Mk.IIC contains an elliptical intake (Canadian style). I presume the same is true for the later boxings. I have sent a message to them about this thread, so let's wait and see what (if anything) happens. The next thing here is perhaps to take a file or two to various kits' radiators and see how much closer to the rectangular ones they can be with a little tlc. The AZ Models Hurricane Mk V kit has a very nice resin larger radiator with the squared-off opening and armored saddle. Would exchange my starboard nether part for an Arma Mk V kit, but doubt very seriously they will do one....unless they decide to do a Mk IV at some point, which would need a different wing sprue from their other releases. To hope, perchance to dream! Mike Edited January 28, 2021 by 72modeler corrected text 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomasz Gronczewski Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 I am refreshing up this thread. Does anyone know what the extra pipes on the back of the radiator were and what Hurricanes they were used in? See attached photo. Most Hurricanes have no sign of this additional installation, some have only short pipe spigots protruding through the bottom surface of the wing, but no pipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted September 21, 2023 Author Share Posted September 21, 2023 3 hours ago, Tomasz Gronczewski said: Does anyone know what the extra pipes on the back of the radiator were and what Hurricanes they were used in? See attached photo. Most Hurricanes have no sign of this additional installation, some have only short pipe spigots protruding through the bottom surface of the wing, but no pipes. Unrestored Finnish Hurricane It's not a well photographed area. AFAIK they are the coolant in/out pipes. this is the pipe running back to the radiator this is from the incredible Hurricane build here by @Aims https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235129863-aims-132-prtac-r-conversion-for-revell-hawker-hurricane-mk-ii/ showing how the pipe feeds in from above It's possible warbirds use a radiator with inlet pipes from above, so the pipes are not visible on these. see https://www.replicore.co.nz/gallery A look at the Hurricane Mk.II manual shows a radiator like the one above in the drawing. @StevSmar is a Hurricane 'nut and bolts' chap, and may have more. HTH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomasz Gronczewski Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Thank you Troy! John McIllmurray's build of Revell Hurricane is simply astonishing. As regards the radiators, the topic becomes more and more intriguing, quite like Hitchcock's prescription for a good thriller , I have not seen this installation in Finnish Hurricane before, and I am puzzled! The Finnish Hurricanes were the early built aircraft of the N23xx production series (Hawker production block 2), but their production lasted from the second half of 1939 to the late spring of 1940. And the original factory drawing of Hurricane Mk.I / Sea Hurricane Mk.I released in November 1938 calls for upper inlet/outlet configuration just like in Replicore postwar radiators! So apparently there were some different configurations used. For example, the drawing above refers to another drawings (94864-94865) of combined cooler for tropical aircraft (the dreaded desert radiator discussed above). Apparently, these drawings of the "tropical" radiator seem not to survive... Also, the drawing metric contains a term I don't understand: "Cancelled for Hurr Mk.I & Sea Hurr IA & IB & IC, by as Hurr 450/2". See the metric zoomed: What is interesting, the drawing made in 1938 mentions ALREADY the tropical mod. So tropical radiators were already in production when Finnish Hurricanes were being built. No other mod is described on these drawings. So we have two proven configurations (upper inlets/outlets and rear inlets/outlets), and two references to drawings ("temperate" 77275-77276 and "tropical" 94884-94885). I know, I know. Too much speculations and too much wishful thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted September 21, 2023 Author Share Posted September 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, Tomasz Gronczewski said: So we have two proven configurations (upper inlets/outlets and rear inlets/outlets), and two references to drawings ("temperate" 77275-77276 and "tropical" 94884-94885). Fascinating. New to me, so of great interest. Again, I'll @StevSmar One detail of note on the zoomed drawing, "ALUM LACQUER & UNDERCOAT" which is the first time I have seen note of paint finish detail on a drawing. great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomasz Gronczewski Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) "One detail of note on the zoomed drawing, "ALUM LACQUER & UNDERCOAT" which is the first time I have seen note of paint finish detail on a drawing." Indeed! It turned my attention too. I just found factory "General Arrangement" drawing of the engine cooling system of Hurricane Mk.I. Again, upper configuration is shown: Edit: Sorry I misread the metric. It is Mk.II. Edited September 21, 2023 by Tomasz Gronczewski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomasz Gronczewski Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) It is a better scan of 106953 than C106953 above. No mentions about other possibilities, but they apparently existed (pipe spigots protruding lower wing surfaces in some survived Mk.IIs). Edited September 21, 2023 by Tomasz Gronczewski 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted September 22, 2023 Author Share Posted September 22, 2023 20 hours ago, Tomasz Gronczewski said: No mentions about other possibilities, Likely answer from @StevSmar Gun heating tubes 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomasz Gronczewski Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: Likely answer from @StevSmar Gun heating tubes Now everything is clear, these tubes ends simply touch the rear wall of the radiator. Hence the absence of any marks on the radiator. Thank you very much Troy and StevSmar! Edited September 22, 2023 by Tomasz Gronczewski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 They ducted hot air from the rear face of the radiator out to the gunbays. Chris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now