1/48th F-4E Phantom II – 6 Sqn RAAF, Amberley 1971 - decals off

[trickyrich]

Ok I didn’t actually get around to doing any painting yet, today is club meeting, so now maybe tomorrow??

 

Got a bit done yesterday and the fuselage is closed up, and that was an interesting task!

 

First off the cockpit tub needed to have the canopy shroud (?) fitted before it was fitted to the fuselage, as can be seen it needed a little bit or persuasion to stay in place.

 

 

The fuselage was then joined together, again it needed some persuasion to stay there, I think one side was a wee bit bent out of shape, but all good in the end.

 

A bit on the downside was the fit of the top fuselage insert, this should have just dropped in to hide the fuselage join but it is/was slightly too small and left some gaps that’ll need correcting! Test fitting didn’t show this as I would have needed 2 pairs of hands to do it. I could have carefully slimmed down the fuselage join but then insert behind the cockpit would have been too wide (not as easy to correct!).  Some stretched sprue will be required here…… so far the only disappointment in the build.

 

 

The tail bits fitted nicely (in all these photos I have yet to clean up the fuselage join).

 

 

I know the instruction don’t mention additional weight required, but to just play it safe with the new resin exhausts some as been added.

 

 

By the instructions the wings would be the next to go on then the intakes (I still haven’t finished painting them), but after some test fits, I’m not so sure this is the best way to go.  The intake fit to the fuselage near perfectly as is, I will do more to improve the fit. 

 

 

The wing and intake trunks will fit next but there is a very slight gap on the lower join. Pushing the wing forward introduces that gap at the rear. I prefer to have this gap at the front as it’s quite small and easier to deal with. Again not perfect as I would have hoped but easy to correct.

 

 

We will not talk about the intake trunk………there is/will be a nasty gap on the outer part on the trunk on both sides, for the most part that will be hidden. I triple checked where I have mounted the intake trunk assembly and it’s exactly where is should be so don’t know where this “gap” has come from. No mentions about it or issues with fit (and same with upper fuselage insert) in any of the reviews I’ve read……they must get perfect models or are perfect modellers!  

 

Anyhow I’ll sort it out.

 

Quickly stuck some U/c legs on her, gosh she looks good!

 

 

…. And with her Hasegawa RF-4E cousin, and “Peace Jack” Recon nose ( RF-4E(S) ), I was thinking of grafting it on to a ZM model and selling the Hasegawa one…… but….

 

…. and of course I could forget her little brother…

 

 

 

I really do love this model, but it is definitely not a “Shake-n-bake” build like you’d expect from Tamiya or Hasegawa on a good day. It does require a wee bit of extra work here and there and the fit I’ve found is not all perfect in places either, but the results are more than worth it.

[modelling minion]

She might be putting up a bit of a fight Rich but she is taking shape quite nicely.

I never trust build reviews of models as all they ever do is blow smoke up the backside of the manufacturers, I seek out proper builds by competent modellers such as yourself who give an honest opinion on how the model actually goes together. I terms of fit this doesn't seem much of an improvement on the old Hasegawa kit, but the detailing is what sets it apart.

Keep your Hasegawa RF-4E and stick that bloody great bit of resin onto the front of it, will make for a very different looking Phantom.

[trickyrich]

On 2/28/2021 at 11:30 PM, modelling minion said:

She might be putting up a bit of a fight Rich but she is taking shape quite nicely.

I never trust build reviews of models as all they ever do is blow smoke up the backside of the manufacturers, I seek out proper builds by competent modellers such as yourself who give an honest opinion on how the model actually goes together. I terms of fit this doesn't seem much of an improvement on the old Hasegawa kit, but the detailing is what sets it apart.

Keep your Hasegawa RF-4E and stick that bloody great bit of resin onto the front of it, will make for a very different looking Phantom.

 

I wouldn't call it a fight as such, not same compared to building a Trumpie/Kitty Hawk model....... the use of lots of blunt objects, swearing, and alcohol required! But again it's not a Tamigawa model either. I think with the way it builds and the price it is (well all the ZM models) aimed at a serious competent modeller (so why am I building it!!! ).  Anyone I think can build it into a nice model out of it, but if you take the time and extra effort, and I think it requires it as well, it will really reward you for it.

 

Ok quite a bit more done to her….and now trying to work on a schedule!!

 

The intakes were masked and painting, I went with the 3’ demarcation as there seems to be no agreement on exactly was the factory spec, plus it changed over time.

 

 

The wee probe on the Tan intake is a replacement, I broke and lost the original (and knocked this one off a few times as well!) 

 

The engine bits have been painted, but I’m not happy with the base colour of the exhaust nozzles so they’ll be repainted.

 

 

New resin wheels painted along with triple-ejector racks, the smaller drop tanks have been paint white as well, they need to be masked for the top and pylon colours.

 

 

Ejection seats have their base colours on, the gram handles are the kit ones, look much better that the Aires PE ones.

 

 

Nose cones done, it’s soooo black you can’t see any detail….I may “de-black’ it a bit or at least make it less flat. It fits so nicely that I can leave it to last.

 

 

I’ve started cleaning up the top insert join, used sprue to fill than get it 2 good days to cure, it’s all smooth, just need to re-scribe and re-do all those rivets!

 

 

Ok, engines, then the wing fitted to the fuselage…or visa versa….

 

The main upper wing join absolutely perfect, you just can’t see it.

 

 

Rear side, ok, not 100%, it’s only small and easy to sort out.

 

 

The front too is ok, though it needed a bit of coaxing into place. There is a gap at the front but that is pretty simple to fix.

 

 

 

I actually don’t like the way they did this, this front underside bit should have been an extra insert similar to what Tamiya did with a similar section on their F-14’s. It would have resulted in a cleaner set of joins in the end. I suspect they’ll use this method on their forthcoming 1/48th F-4J …I can’t wait for that one!!!

 

Right with this under control time to look at those intakes, as initially I was a bit concerned with the fit…..but I have a plan! 

 

Ok, there are just sitting here so they fit a but snugger with some pressure but not perfect, but the tops look ok……

 

 

………. the sides, not so, they may sit better with some pressure/clamps?

 

 

 

The bottoms, gaps, not too bad but could be a lot better.

 

 

After spending sometime on this I think I have found a solution, test fits have these gaps now gone. So for the fuselage you need to remove the locating pin, this is actually not required and it prevents you from lining up the intake properly (if you just have to have it then elongate the hole in the intake….just remove it). Then carefully bevel the edges shown on the inside, trying (very hard) to not touch the outer edge. You can also see I’ve knocked off that rotten intake probe again!!! 

 

 

For the intake a similar process, the rear and bottom edges needed the most attention. Special attention is needed where the two parts on the intake join, this needs to be perfect. The more time you can spend on this the better the end result will be….. which is no filler. Hopefully these joins will just look like the rest of the panel lines in the end.

 

 

I have about a day’s worth of tiding up to do on her before I can start painting her which should be a fairly quick process, I’ll be using my new favourite paint, AK Real Colours, mainly because I can’t get the Mr. Paint colours I need and lacquer is the only way to go! 

 

 

[trickyrich]

Yes she’s painted and quite a bit has happened since the last update…….but unfortunately I forgot to take photos of the progress. 

 

Well to cover off where I have gotten to, the intakes ended up fitting all most perfectly. Extra time spent of getting them to fit right paid off. Plus all the other little bits were sorted out.

 

I had and did plan to paint the metallic bits first. Using AK’s Extreme Metal they looked awesome, masked them off and did the final touch-up’s……….. and then that’s where it all went wrong!!!  

 

Masking as I have since found up is a no no with these paints unless sealed!!! I had thought they were a lacquered base paint….. but they are not, and all my lovely paint work was destroyed as the masks reacted with the paint! I pretty much and to strip it all back.

 

 

So today…… lots of masking and painting with AK Interactives “Real Colors”, results……..

 

 

…… F@#KEN awesome if I may be so  Australian blunt!!!! They went on perfectly and I was able to mask pretty well as soon as the colour was on. Just a couple of re-sprays required, either for paint covered fingers   ….. or as can be seen I got the pattern wrong! I must be getting better at the masking as I only needed a couple of touch-ups.

 

 

 

 

 

Other than some paint covered finger marks on the underside, and the RH side aileron that I got the colours the wrong way around!!  Touch-ops were very minor.

 

Next was round 2 of the metallics, I need to do some of the demarcations but seeing the paint is soooo reactive to tape, I’ll try some “post-it notes” and see how they go. I am quite happy with the initial results, I think I have got the look just right.

 

 

 

 

As soon as this is sorted I’ll clear coat her ready for the billions of decals!!!! 

 

I’m trying to get her finished of my next club meet and the RAAF 100th Anniversary show, not helped by going away with work for the next 2 weeks! I still just love this model, even with the wee bit of extra work she requires.

[modelling minion]

That is a really nice paint job Rich, and your second round of metallic paint looks superb and very realistic.

[zebra]

Looking phantastic! I’ve had the same problem with masking AK extreme metal - it’s a shame as it’s such good paint. I’ve found that it’s not too bad if you paint it as soon as you’ve finished masking and remove the tape immediately, but leaving the tape on any longer causes problems.

[trickyrich]

God why does such nice paint have to be such a bast##d to work with!!!

 

Have started to decal........ I really have found purgatory!!!!!  

 

There are more decals on the two smaller pylons then are on most models!!!!! Have done 60 odd..... only 50 billion more to do!!!!!  

 

But god she does look great though!!!! 

[Gene K]

I'm loving this thread, Rich. Thanks for the "rich" photo documentation! 

 

Gene K

[trickyrich]

ok folks, I haven't forgotten about this one, just away with work on nightshift in the radio-active wasteland.

 

This beast is just about done but it is bording on being a wee disaster!!! It's either the SMS gloss clear (never used before the gloss before, I couldn't get my usual MRP stuff) and flat clear or the mega-shiny ZM decals or both has resulted in severe silvering of the decals........ which took 3 days to apply (800+ decals!!!). The Hawkeye decals which aren't the greats quality wise and have to be cut out individually actually went one perfectly and no silvering. All looked good until I laid the flat clear coat on.... them disaster.

 

Tried all my tricks but can't completely remove/hide the silvering, looks ok from a distance but close-up in the light...... we'll not very good at all!

 

I really don't understand the logic behind having super shiny decals and I sort of remember having similar issues with my ZM Ta-152H as well. The SMS Flat, well I normally only use this stuff if I want a mega flat finish, but it was all that I could get at the time, I may have to try AK's Real Color clears as the colour range is awesome.

 

Anyway I'll preserve with it, as I said it looks ok from a distance...... a few layers of resin dust and it'll look fine! 

 

 

 

 

 

[tonyot]

Looks excellent Rich and that SEA scheme looks the bee`s knee`s.  

[trickyrich]

Well unfortunately this build has come to a sad and sorry end for the moment! As mentioned earlier I have had severe silvering of pretty well all the decals (800+) on her. I have had this happen a couple of times before and have been able to recover nicely, but not this time. After having a closer look at the issues I really don’t think it is recoverable and will spoilt the look of the model.

 

I still not sure if it was the clear coats that did something, it was the first time I have used SMS Lacquer clears for the major clear coats. I usually just use the Flat for a super flat finish right at the end. Or whether it was the Zoukei-Mura decals. They were super shiny and did really want to adhere all that well, with or without setting solution. I found a couple just lifted even with a clear coat on top, so they appeared to have not adhered. 

 

 

 

I caused this while trying some other setting solution!

 

 

The underside seems to be ok, but I’m not too sure I can keep intacted while stripping the upper/side surfaces. 

 

 

Whatever the reason I can’t leave the model like this, so I’m pretty much going to have to completely strip her back and start again. I have ordered 2 new sets of decals, one RAAF markings, the other stencilling. It will be a big job so I’m putting it off for the moment. I may attempt it later in the year….or something, for now she’s on the “Shelf of Doom” for the foreseeable future.

 

It is a real shame as up until the decaling (which took 3 days to complete) she was looking amazing and I was really happy with the build…….oh well…..  

 

 

[Andwil]

How disappointing, it was looking so good.  I hope you can rescue it some day.

 

AW

[zebra]

Such a shame. The model was looking fantastic.

 

I'd be surprised if the SMS lacquers are the problem. I've used the SMS clear gloss and flat finishes quite a lot over the last year or so and it's generally gone pretty well.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Thats a shame Rich, I hope to see it come back maybe in the Kuta ? On the lighter side you’ve inspired me to do an Aussie E for the Phantom single type. Possibly also my RF-4B as well ? 

[trickyrich]

45 minutes ago, zebra said:

Such a shame. The model was looking fantastic.

 

I'd be surprised if the SMS lacquers are the problem. I've used the SMS clear gloss and flat finishes quite a lot over the last year or so and it's generally gone pretty well.

 

Mmm I'm thinking it may have been more to do with the decals, they didn't go on very nicely at all even with decal solution. Plus I did have a couple just fall off, which is why I took my time doing them and just in stages over 3 days.

 

I'm sort of hoping I may be able to lift off the decals without damaging the main lacquer coat, will do some test once the new decals arrive.

[Pappy]

Pity, it was looking SO nice,

 

I believe in you Rich!

 

Pappy

[modelling minion]

Rich I am really sorry to see the issues you had with the decals, a real pain as she really was looking very good indeed.

I have an ultimate weapon for silvering which is to use a tiny amount of Tamiya extra thin cement, almost with the brush empty, and it sucks the decal straight down.

[trickyrich]

2 hours ago, modelling minion said:

Rich I am really sorry to see the issues you had with the decals, a real pain as she really was looking very good indeed.

I have an ultimate weapon for silvering which is to use a tiny amount of Tamiya extra thin cement, almost with the brush empty, and it sucks the decal straight down.

 now that does sound like an interesting trick to try.

 

I was talking on the weekend with some members of my club and they're all of the opinion that the issue is with the decals! One mentioned that a friend of his had one of the F-4C/D models and had similar issues with the decals.

 

The consensus is that I try super-sticky tape to remove the decals. I will give it a try. The new decals are on order and I'm not giving up with a fight! Especially seeing the model that one the IPMS RAAF 100 Year Anniversary Comp had really badly silvered decals!!!!   Not that I was going for a comp win......... though I did get 2nd for my horrible 1/48th Hobby Boss RF-111C, I so have to do another one as the undercarriage has collapsed on this one.... amazing what you can do with superglue!  

[modelling minion]

Give the glue a try, it really can work.

The idea of using tape to remove them if other things don't work sounds like a good idea, that way the excellent painting remains intact.

[trickyrich]

On 3/29/2021 at 10:24 PM, modelling minion said:

Give the glue a try, it really can work.

The idea of using tape to remove them if other things don't work sounds like a good idea, that way the excellent painting remains intact.

 

I did and it really didn't work with the glue, the tape on the other hand worked perfectly. Which really is bad, it tells me none of the decals properly adhered the the surface (well actually about 5% did, but they came off with a little extra effort).

 

Now I'm left with a very patchy looking Phantom! I left the underside alone, they "Look" fine against the grey, but I suspect they have the same issues.

 

My first set of replacement decals have arrived, the NovaScale national marking and serial numbers, they look much nice that the ones I originally used.

 

I won't attack this again until probably later in the year, but the plan is I maybe give the upper surfaces a VERY light rub down/back with Micro Mesh before re-glossing her and do all those decals again. So stay tuned, she will be finished and she will look awesome!

[modelling minion]

21 hours ago, trickyrich said:

she will look awesome!

Of that I have no doubt.

A real PITA though to have had such a problem with the decals, I wonder if it was a one off or if others will have the same problem with them?

[trickyrich]

talking to a couple of members at my club meet the other week and it's not the first time it's happened with a ZM Phantom. 

 

If there is a positive the new NovaScale decal for the RAAF markings are really nice, a huge improvement over the original ones I was using. The replacement stencilling should be arriving soon.

 

Plus I've been shopping on the Quinta Studio web site, they have just released some 3D decals for the 1/32nd Academy F-16I, so they're on there way, not cheap!!!! Plus some others.  

[Col.]

Glad to learn you're not abandoning this one in totality Rich. The nice new decals should help revive your enthusiasm for it and hopefully we'll get to see the finished result some day soon  

[trickyrich]

I may get to her once I have one or two of the Skyhawks out of the way, just depends on timing.

 

With those decals off it's become very patchy, glossy patches all over the place. I think I need to lightly sand her back (fine micro mesh) then re-gloss. I just need to make sure I can get an even smooth surface for the new decals. Will past some photos of how she looks at the moment a bit later. I do know though that I will need to touch up a few spots plus I may re-finish a couple of areas I'm not happy with, so there is quite a bit of re-working I need to do.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Rich do you have a profile showing all four sides of the markings ? I have an “E” in 1/72 on its way and want to do it for the STGB. I have the roundels and can find the flashes, but need to see the layout and the codes. 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Corsairfoxfouruncle