Sherman II - Dragon and Asuka - 1/35

[Cerberus]

14 minutes ago, Nenad Ilijic said:

It will be interesting to compare it with Dragon.

 

 It will indeed yes, as you say put the build in this build log, should make for an interesting build log.

 

 And nice progress so far, keep up the good work, interesting use of tweezers by the way, that's the kinda stuff we like to see, ref the Asuka kit, just gotta love these early cast hull Sherman's, they look so good

 

 Matt

[Nenad Ilijic]

Hello everyone,

 

Model finally got it's coat of Mr.Color C38 OD. And got it's sand shields

 

 

 

Noticed that jerry can holder is missing, so had to scratch one. I have no idea if this is correct, but based on the photos it's close enough.

 

 

After airbrushing few light coats of chipping fluid and letting it dry for around 10 minutes, a few coats of MRP's Light Stone were applied. I wanted OD to see through on some places and to make the coverage that is not very consistent, which was the case with most paintworks at the time. MRP is great for this, because it is very thin and allows you to build coverage very slowly. This is the result after 3 coats of LS.

 

 

And then, did some chipping. Front glacis was usually covered with many scratches, even after just a few weeks in the desert and can be visible on most of the tanks from this period. I also chipped some other areas as seen on photographs (front of the turret, around towing cable, etc.).

 

 

 

I attached only the left side sand shields. I will have to use dry transfer decals on the right side sand shield and I am quite sure that they would not stay attached in the process. Attaching sand shields was panful. Attachment points are very small and they are bent and it's hard to keep them in place. CA glue was used in same areas, Gator' Grip on the others. And of course it wouldn't be fun without incidents.

 

 

I am not sure why it MRP peeled when I pulled masking tape, but I suspect chipping fluid and me forgetting to wipe off the excess water and not waiting enough to dry.

 

Anyway, after some cosmetic surgery, here's the result so far:

 

 

I will probably finish the tools and M2 MG and switch to Asuka for some time until my AFT decals arrive.

 

Cheers,

Nenad

 

[vytautas]

I really like what you do. All the small details add realism, the painting is great too. And I really like your photos. Really nice to look at.

 

Vytautas

[Jasper dog]

Must go back and a proper read of your build Nenad, unfortunately its impossible to keep up with all builds and do some modelling as well!

 

Looks to be a fascinating build.

 

Cheers

Darryl 

[diablo rsv]

The paintwork is looking great Nenad and the chipping is very nicely done.

That's a shame about the tape pulling of the paint though. That's not something I have experienced with MRP, so as you say it must be down to the chipping fluid. Well done with the repair.

Looking forward to seeing the Asuka kit getting built. I still haven't had any joy sourcing one myself so if you change your mind you could send it my way. 😁

 

Wayne

[Nenad Ilijic]

On 2/11/2021 at 8:33 AM, vytautas said:

I really like what you do. All the small details add realism, the painting is great too. And I really like your photos. Really nice to look at.

 

Vytautas

 

Well that's thanks to @diablo rsv, he gave me very useful photography tips.

 

On 2/11/2021 at 11:34 AM, diablo rsv said:

The paintwork is looking great Nenad and the chipping is very nicely done.

That's a shame about the tape pulling of the paint though. That's not something I have experienced with MRP, so as you say it must be down to the chipping fluid. Well done with the repair.

Looking forward to seeing the Asuka kit getting built. I still haven't had any joy sourcing one myself so if you change your mind you could send it my way. 😁

 

Wayne

 

Me neither, this is the first time I had this problem with MRP. And regarding Asuka, well, it's too good to change my mind 😀

[Nenad Ilijic]

Hi guys,

 

Not much progress, but I managed to finish tools and Asuka M2 MG (which I really like, details are really nice).

 

 

And stowage:

 

 

Stowage is a bit too "sharp and contrasty" but it will bland in once covered with dust. Not sure about the colors I used for canvas, bags and straps, I just followed MiniArt instructions and checked few photos online.

 

I extended straps on the large rolled canvas using PE strips, so it can be attached to the sides.

 

 

Also added some of the decals I had already in my stash, like census number on the above picture. It was created using Archer Fine Transfers British War Department Numbers and their Microscale decal film. I got a bad batch sheet and numbers didn't want to separate correctly, but at the end, it accidently produced nice worn effect  Font should be a bit larger compared to reference photo, but this is closest I was able to get.

 

I'll have to put Dragon on hold now while the rest of the decals arrive and switch to Asuka.

 

Cheers,

Nenad

 

[vytautas]

Wow, there really is a lot to see. Top quality work.

[Bullbasket]

Nice work with the pioneer tools, the stowage, and especially the M2 MG. Asuka has really done well with that.

 

John.

[JackG]

Coming along very nicely!

 

For the WD number dimensions, official (Canadian) war diaries have them as 3 1/2 inches in height, and not more than 2 1/2 inches width (per individual digit). The width of the "brushstroke" would be 5/8 inch.

 

regards,

Jack

Edited February 17, 2021 by JackG

[Nenad Ilijic]

On 2/17/2021 at 4:38 PM, JackG said:

Coming along very nicely!

 

For the WD number dimensions, official (Canadian) war diaries have them as 3 1/2 inches in height, and not more than 2 1/2 inches width (per individual digit). The width of the "brushstroke" would be 5/8 inch.

 

regards,

Jack

Thank you Jack!

 

Archer digits I used are actually quite there (maybe just a bit higher). However, digits on the reference photo I am using are unusually large, I would say maybe 50% larger than the instructions you are mentioning.

 

Nenad

[Nenad Ilijic]

Hello everyone,

 

So Asuka. I started with suspension. Everything cleaned up.

 

 

I gave those road wheels a bit more beating than I would like, but they will go well together with worn Panda tracks. And once sand fills in all the cuts in the rubber it will be much less prominent.

Compared to Dragon kit, cleaning is much easier. All the connection pins and seam lines are placed smarter so it is easier to clean them. The only accuracy issue that I noticed is idler wheel which is a bit thick. I think that Dragon one is correct thickness.

 

And here it is assembled.

 

 

It fits so well, you almost don't need a glue.

 

You may also notice that there is no cast texture at all. I would say that this is not necessarily incorrect, because looking at photos it seems that cast texture is sometimes visible on suspension parts, and sometimes surfaces are completely flat. Dragon suspension looks better thou because of this.

 

So, to summarize, Asuka suspension is better engineered and as a result way easier to clean and assemble, but Dragon one looks better, at least my opinion.

 

Cheers,

Nenad

[diablo rsv]

Very nice work on the accessories Nenad.

Great to see the Asuka kit underway as well, it will be interesting seeing the comparison.

 

Wayne

[Cerberus]

18 hours ago, Nenad Ilijic said:

I gave those road wheels a bit more beating than I would like

 I'm working on some Easy Eight suspension at the moment, and I used your "road wheel beating" as inspiration, though I did tone it down a little 

 

 It's a shame there's no cast texture on the Asuka parts, and I'm looking forward to more of this comparison.

 

 Matt

[vytautas]

Good job! I like damaged tires, I damage them myself without pity!

 

Vytautas

[Nenad Ilijic]

On 2/20/2021 at 8:44 PM, diablo rsv said:

Very nice work on the accessories Nenad.

Great to see the Asuka kit underway as well, it will be interesting seeing the comparison.

 

Wayne

 

Thank you Wayne.

 

On 2/21/2021 at 5:17 AM, Cerberus said:

 I'm working on some Easy Eight suspension at the moment, and I used your "road wheel beating" as inspiration, though I did tone it down a little 

 

 It's a shame there's no cast texture on the Asuka parts, and I'm looking forward to more of this comparison.

 

 Matt

 

Thank you Matt. Well I think you did good by toning it down. How I did it, they would look like after 30 years of merciless abuse

 

On 2/21/2021 at 5:23 PM, vytautas said:

Good job! I like damaged tires, I damage them myself without pity!

 

Vytautas

 

Thank you Vytautas. Well looking at your work, you are the master of destruction

Your plastic carving is fantastic! And thanks for making a tutorial how to achieve that.

 

Some progress over the weekend.

 

Running gear painted. This time I used Hataka early OD. Need to restock Mr. Color, although I find Mr. Color, Hataka and MRP very similar, the main difference being how much pre-thinned they are out of the bottle.

 

 

Running gear is completely movable, so it's a good choice for diorama.

 

Also, started working on the lower hull. Again, this kit primarily represents PSC tank, so there are all the rivets present.

 

 

I removed all of the rivets from the sides. I'll left the rivets on the bottom plate, because they will not be visible anyway. I managed to save most of them

 

I also removed screws marked with (1), noticing too late that they should be there on Lima hull as well, so I had too glue them back . Separating screw from rivet heads was not fun job to do.

 

Added few strangely placed rivets that I noticed on some photos (2).

 

 

That's it for now. Still waiting for TMD replacement rear plate for Lima tanks to arrive (will be here soon). In the meantime, I'll proceed with upper hull.

 

Cheers,

Nenad

[vytautas]

Running gear really nice

Do you paint rubber with a brush?

 

Vytautas

[Nenad Ilijic]

On 2/23/2021 at 10:06 PM, vytautas said:

Running gear really nice

Do you paint rubber with a brush?

 

Vytautas

 

No, I airbrushed it. I used PE mask. It's much more convenient. Also, my favorite rubber paint is Gunze Tire Black which is hard to brush.

 

Some progress.

 

Differential cover is mostly finished. It is very nicely molded with a little bit more details than Dragon (screws are fantastic). However, there is one problem with it. There is a lip where the screws are at the top (where differential cover is connected to the upper hull). There is no lip on most of the El Alamein thanks (as I understand it was introduced later), so I had to make this part a bit thinner and to fill in the gap. Dragon one is correct regarding this.

 

 

Also, I started working on upper hull. There are many small and big differences between Dragon and Asuka upper hull.

 

 

The biggest differences are the shape of the hull itself and the shape of the driver's hoods and hatches. Overall shape of the Asuka hull is more rounded and Asuka hoods are higher. I think that Dragon kit is more accurate in this regard.

 

Casting texture is another difference. Asuka is more subtle, while Dragon is more rough. Dragon one looks more interesting but I think that Asuka is more accurate.

 

There is also a difference how driver hatch lids are aligned (2). While Dragon's are aligned with the hood top, Asuka's are not. At first, I thought that I did something wrong, but looking at other Asuka models on internet, it looks like they intended it to be like that. Looking at some photos, there are variations, but lids are mostly level with a hood top, so I think that Dragon is more accurate regarding this. I haven't decided yet should I try to fix this. I will probably leave it as it is.

 

Asuka's front light guards are definitely more accurate (3). Both their thickness and shape seams ok. Dragon's, not so much.

 

For some reason, Asuka didn't include grouser cover grilles (2). Fortunately, I have a spare one from Dragon kit.

 

My Panda tracks arrived in the meantime! I was quite surprised. I ordered this one:

 

http://shermantracks.com/catalog/worn_western_t51.html

 

But the one that I got does not look like the one on the website. This is a quickly assembled segment, just to see how it would look like.

 

 

Amount of wear and tear is insane, it even beats my road wheels

 

I am not sure how realistic this is? Haven't seen any photos with tracks like this (except the examples on the Panda website). Is this steel skeleton visible? If it is, it does not look to me that rubber pads would not fall of if they were worn to this extent?

But they surely look interesting and level of details is nice.

 

Assembly is very easy. Rubber pads are also easily cleaned, but cleaning end connectors will be nightmare. Every end connector has to connection points with the sprue, on the rounded sides 

 

That's all for now.

 

Cheers,

Nenad

 

 

 

 

 

[Cerberus]

22 hours ago, Nenad Ilijic said:

Amount of wear and tear is insane, it even beats my road wheels

 

 I agree the wear on those is crazy bad, and no they don't look very much like the advertised picture on the website, did they send you the right ones? They might have a 'partially worn' set and a 'badly worn out' set, maybe?

 

 And yes, what they are depicting is the steel skeleton of the track that the rubber is moulded around (I think)

 

 I have no idea how accurate wear to that extent is to be honest (looks overdone to my eyes) but John or Das will know, hopefully one of them will post and let you know.

 

 Matt

[Nenad Ilijic]

54 minutes ago, Cerberus said:

 

 I agree the wear on those is crazy bad, and no they don't look very much like the advertised picture on the website, did they send you the right ones? They might have a 'partially worn' set and a 'badly worn out' set, maybe?

 

 And yes, what they are depicting is the steel skeleton of the track that the rubber is moulded around (I think)

 

 I have no idea how accurate wear to that extent is to be honest (looks overdone to my eyes) but John or Das will know, hopefully one of them will post and let you know.

 

 Matt

 

The label on the package is "Western Desert v2", so I guess that maybe v1 is the one advertised on the website. However, it is not possible to choose which version you are buying and I haven't seen this v2 anywhere on the website. I'll ask them over an email.

 

Nenad

[JackG]

Those Panda tracks certainly are knackered.   How realistic they are for your build, well let's look at the historical backdrop.

 

El Alamein is situated right on top of a railway, so those Shermans must have arrived by that method, and shouldn't have much in the way of track wear at the start of the battle?  The actual operation (Oct.23 to Nov.4) lasted about twelve days, but there were lulls in the conflict, so the vehicles were not driving two weeks straight.   If I recall correctly, there was some movement done only by night, so next look at weather...

 

Average temperature during this period can range from 13 to 28C (looking at both Oct. and Nov.)

 

 

Looking at a regional soil map, the area of operations was for the most part sandy and loamy, with remnants of rocky ridges.

https://esdac.jrc.ec.europa.eu/content/soil-association-map-egypt-appendix-2-soil-survey-papers-no-11

 

Landscape photos do show bits of rock strewn across the desert floor, but because they are on soft soil, there would be some give when being run over by tank tracks?

 

As already mentioned, photos do not show the extreme wear as those renditions from Panda, but for sure you will have some chipping of the rubber shoes.

 

regards,

Jack

Edited February 27, 2021 by JackG

[Nenad Ilijic]

Thank you for the detailed analysis Jack. This is great!

 

Just as you concluded, I think that there should be just mild wear visible on the tracks and wheels during the period of the battle, and photos confirm this. As I understand prior to battle tanks were moved around using a combination of trains and transporters, and all the wear they got was made during the exercise.

 

With 9L tanks I am building I would like to depict a battle survivor, that participated long chase over the western desert after the battle. However, even that would not create such crazy amount of wear as seen on these tracks, at least my opinion. I think it is not realistic that steel skeleton should be completely naked while rubber pads are still attached. Maybe more suitable for abandoned or half-burned vehicles... I don't know.

 

Also, I think that terrain as seen on the photo you shared should produce a lot of cuts in the rubber after heavy usage, due to many sharp stones laying around everywhere. I tried to reproduce this on the wheels, although, I went too far.

 

Nenad

[JackG]

Right on, going in for the long haul.   According to this site, rubber tracks in Africa lasted about only 600 miles, at which point they would begin to peel.  If they could not be replaced, they would continue to run as is.  

http://www.tankarchives.ca/2019/07/canadian-dry-pin.html

 

A map of the pursuit indicates distance of almost 1200 miles as the crow flies straight from El Alamein to Tunisian border.  So maybe those Panda tracks are usable after all?

 

 

 

regards,

Jack

 

Am curious about what exactly is this 'peeling' or rubber tracks, so have posted the question to the hive mind over at missinglynx - hope you don't mind.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/sherman-rubber-track-peel-t327256.html

Edited February 28, 2021 by JackG

[Nenad Ilijic]

12 hours ago, JackG said:

Right on, going in for the long haul.   According to this site, rubber tracks in Africa lasted about only 600 miles, at which point they would begin to peel.  If they could not be replaced, they would continue to run as is.  

http://www.tankarchives.ca/2019/07/canadian-dry-pin.html

 

A map of the pursuit indicates distance of almost 1200 miles as the crow flies straight from El Alamein to Tunisian border.  So maybe those Panda tracks are usable after all?

 

 

 

regards,

Jack

 

Am curious about what exactly is this 'peeling' or rubber tracks, so have posted the question to the hive mind over at missinglynx - hope you don't mind.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/sherman-rubber-track-peel-t327256.html

Great find Jack!  Maybe there's hope for those Panda tracks after all

 

And of course I don't mind sharing at missinglynx. Thanks for doing that.

 

Regards,

Nenad

[Nenad Ilijic]

Hello everyone,

 

TMD rear plate arrived, so I was able to make some progress over the weekend.

 

Here's the comparison between rear plate provided by Asuka (PSC) and one I ordered from TMD (Lima). The biggest difference being angular vs rounded bottom part.

 

 

I also ordered differential cover, which has batter details than the one Asuka provided, but Asuka one has correct casting marks, so I will go with it and save TMD for some other build.

 

 

I got these cable clamps as a bonus, which is great, because Asuka didn't include them in their kit.

 

 

The fit was was not perfect, but it was rather nice. I just had to fill in some small gaps and to extend the curved part at the bottom. I just used some styrene sheets to do that.

 

 

And here's the result after some filling with Mr. Dissolved Putty and some sanding.

 

 

All the parts fit very well, no issues there. There is just one thing I notices, which is different on Dragon kit.

 

 

On Asuka kit, there is this gap between rear plate and exhaust pipes, while on Dragon kit, rear plate goes all the way up to the exhausts. I am not sure which one is correct, but on most photos, it looks like that there is a gap like it's on Asuka kit. Anyway, I decided to keep it that way, it is hardly visible.

 

And finally, lower and upper hull attached. I could not resist at the end, and had to grind some material from the hatch rings in order for hatch lids to be more in level with the hood roofs. OCD won this one

It is still not completely aligned, but at least there's is no gap. 

 

 

 

There were some small fit issues between lower and upper hull, but probably they were caused by the replaced TMD rear plate. Nothing that can't be easily fixed anyway.

 

Good thing about Asuka compared to Dragon kit is that Lima specific rear light guards are included.

 

 

Cheers,

Nenad