Guide to WWII Aircraft Colour Schemes

[MarkHa]

Hello, I was hoping someone might be able to point me to an on-line guide to WWII aircraft colour/paint schemes. There's lots of sites out there but I can't see anything that includes cross references to paint descriptions / numbers.

 

My immediate need is for the Heinkel He 111 Eastern front 1942/43 but a general "go to" on-line resource would be great.

 

Hoping someone can help and thanks in advance

[fishplanebeer]

I suspect that such a definitive 'one stop' resource covering all types, theatres, paint references/numbers and all possible variations, many of which are still regularly debated on this very forum, would be a mammoth and nigh on impossible task to complete.

 

The only way to be sure, or as sure as you can ever be, is to do as much research as possible on the particular aircraft/colour scheme that you have in mind and then invite comments from fellow forum members who may have more detailed knowledge or access to specific pictures and records.

 

Sorry that this is not more helpful for you but this is just my take on what I what I think will always be a complex and diverse subject open to opinion and interpretation as much as apparent facts, which themselves tend to evolve over time as new information becomes available or is discovered.

 

Regards

Colin.

[Stuart Wilson]

A guide to all aircraft of WWII? i doubt if there is one. The best bet it to research each aircraft separately. Air forces tended to use similar schemes for aircraft with similar roles in the same theater. But not always and consistency differed between countries. The RAF were more consistent than the Luftwaffe for example. 

 

The He 111 was usually painted at the factory in a standard splinter scheme of RLM 70 Black green, and RLM 71 Dark green  with the undersides in RLM 65 Light blue. However as above the Luftwaffe weren't too bothered about units re-painting aircraft to meet local conditions and this happened a lot. Undersides were often re-painted black for example. White would be used in wintertime on uppersurfaces. As to which paint manufacturer to source these colours from, that's a matter of personal preference. I like Tamiya. But that requires a lot of mixing paints Though in the case of the colours I mentioned, XF-27 is RLM 70, XF-81 is a good RLM 71 and XF-23 and XF-2 in a 2:1 ration will get you as near as makes no odds to RLM 65.

 

Oh and get used to sources contradicting each other. Unless there are colour photos of the same subject in a variety of lighting conditions (there won't be) it's rarely a certainty.

 

Stuart

[Graham Boak]

Thee is no argument that each air force requires - and many have - individual books covering their aircraft camouflages.  Sometimes pretty thick ones, or several volumes.  if you avoid the older works, differences between them tend to be small.  Books are a much better source than the internet, at a cost of course.  Not that any single source is perfect.  The closest to a single book, at least for all newcomers and for those air forces included, is the recent AK book covering the subject.  It is easy to exaggerate the variations on the basic schemes: modellers are after all always looking for something different, and these tend to have disproportionate coverage in profiles and discussions.  Away from times of rapid change such as the BoB and the last six months of the war, Luftwaffe camouflage was very consistent.  Almost all day bombers were 70/71/65 (as described above) and the  majority of day fighters 74/75/76.  Except in the desert, of course - but even then the standard colours were seen.  Yes, they used black distemper for temporary coverage for night operations - so did the RAF - and white for snow conditions.  Like everyone else, really (though the RAF didn't need to consider snow camouflage very often).

 

The key question about your Heinkel then is summer or winter?  Which unit?  It will carry extra yellow areas as theatre markings, Usually the outer wingtips and a fuselage band, but the latter can vary in exact position, and perhaps the underside of the engine cowling..  Some units - especially fighter units - will have individual variations at certain times, but this is much less true for the bombers.  There is more detail - you may find that Heinkels had 65 undersides but black under the engine nacelles and the wings on each side of the nacelles - partly to allow rapid repaint with distempers from day to night and vice versa, except they didn't always bother.  The exhausts tended to leave large black smears over this area anyway.

 

As for which paints to choose, for enamels I would turn to Colourcoats at Sovereign Hobbies first, then Xtracolour or Phoenix Precision.  Others can say more about the various different kinds of acrylics, but the more popular names such as Tamiya and Vallejo appear to be only arguably sort-ot-accurate, whereas the various Gunze/Mr. Colour sets appear to be superior in that respect.

[Stew Dapple]

1 hour ago, MarkHa said:

Hello, I was hoping someone might be able to point me to an on-line guide to WWII aircraft colour/paint schemes. There's lots of sites out there but I can't see anything that includes cross references to paint descriptions / numbers.

 

My immediate need is for the Heinkel He 111 Eastern front 1942/43 but a general "go to" on-line resource would be great.

 

Hi Mark,

 

Something like this?:

 

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/pages/luftwaffe-colour-schemes

 

The Luftwaffe page isn't finished yet, and doesn't contain the scheme you need for a He111 yet; Jamie is adding to them as and when he gets time. The RAF/FAA page looks to be pretty much complete, as does the USAAF/USAF/USN page. Hope you find it useful  

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

41 minutes ago, Stew Dapple said:

 

Hi Mark,

 

Something like this?:

 

https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/pages/luftwaffe-colour-schemes

 

The Luftwaffe page isn't finished yet, and doesn't contain the scheme you need for a He111 yet; Jamie is adding to them as and when he gets time. The RAF/FAA page looks to be pretty much complete, as does the USAAF/USAF/USN page. Hope you find it useful  

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

 

Some git decided I needed to prepare slides for and attend a meeting tomorrow for day job whilst on annual leave. Good job there's nothing else I needed or wanted to be doing eh?

 

I have, upon this prompt however, added the RLM65/70/71 bomber picture to the site though right this minute. It's just a bit of reformatting they all need. It's not a big job but I'm finding it adds up - then I find myself drawing pictures of Focke Wulfs by mistake, so it takes even longer!

[JPuente54]

This is a very large job to attempt. @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies's is a good one for us. @Phantome's list of RAF and FAA is a great one of WW2 and the Post War aircraft list is a great one. But,  both will state that there are variants that will always occur; and in the latter's list, will be noted in updates. Jamie's is new to here; it appears to be something just set up by him and Stew. These can help all of of us in our research and general knowledge.

[Col Walter E Kurtz]

i posted a link some months ago.. a scholarly researched list of colours with a manufacturers paint comparison list. with referenced original photos. I'll add the link in a min...

 

[Col Walter E Kurtz]

This is one link... Apologies but it's NOT including Luftwaffe colours..  dang! i thought it did.. but i'll post it here again for completeness.. 

 

http://www.theworldwars.net/resources/

 

I used this resource for my USAAF interior colours and found it very useful ! 

 

Soverign Hobbies is a good recommendation - not used their products myself yet but there is a lot of excellent feedback on them from BM members! 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Col Walter E Kurtz

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I think the simple fact is that it's a gigantic subject and one can only go so far before plagiarising another author or tens' hard work and getting into hot water. I'm just doing some of the most popular stuff, and then it's just to help my customers with the near-vertical learning curve that is venturing away from <insert kit manufacturer>'s partner paint brand references and towards official nomenclature. Hearing recommendations about accuracy is well and good but if you don't actually know which RLM numbers correspond to day fighters in 1943 then it's baffling - and many will understandably just think "I'm not sure, so I'll just stick with what <insert kit manufacturer> says to use, or worse, goes to one of the ghastly colour converters where something that wasn't particularly close to begin with is approximated visually by someone of unknown colour acuity to something from another brand. The results are typically as reliable as those one gets from using Google Translate to convert a sentence from English to Chinese and back again. So, I'm just trying to help relative newcomers to the huge subject of camouflage paints identify the green & brown Spitfire and have some confidence that those are the right paints for their model. I don't plan to cover exceptions and obscurities on my site

[fishplanebeer]

Just bought some enamels from Sovereign for my up and coming Spitfire IIa and looking forward to using them based upon the feedback I've read about these paints on the forum. As I only use enamels I normally use Xtracolor  with Humbrol to fill in any gaps so it will be interesting to see the difference.

 

Sovereign do paint 'sets' which include the relevant paints for a particular time period/theatre which is very helpful but you do need to use their own brand of thinners and not the normal white spirit or other thinner brands. Their thinners are reasonably priced so not an issue but postage can be a wee bit high if you order less than 6 tins of paint (a tin of thinners count as 1 tin) so best to buy in bulk or well in advance for several projects to keep postage down.

 

Although I don't usually use acrylics I did buy a Vallejo paint set for my desert P40 Kittyhawk and the colours just looked wrong so instead stuck with the Xtracolor and Humbrol enamel versions, which adds another dimension to the question. Just because a manufacturer says their paint 'X' is the correct shade of green for a particular air force/period/aircraft type doesn't actually mean it's accurate. For example Humbrol claim their 240 is RLM02 whereas the correct shade is actually provided by the Xtracolor equivalent, but I only know this because I bought both and then compared. So even in an ideal world where all paint manufacturers use the standard or correct nomenclature/specification for every colour this would not solve the problem of actual accuracy. 

 

Regards

Colin.

 

Ps. also intend to try out Phoenix Precision paints as well at some point

[Werdna]

7 hours ago, MarkHa said:

Hello, I was hoping someone might be able to point me to an on-line guide to WWII aircraft colour/paint schemes.

 

The best 'guide' that I have found is to ask on here.  Simply post up as much info as you can about the individual aircraft/variant/theatre/unit you are hoping to model and the advice will follow.  It may even be on here already, so it's always worth doing a search.  In the absence of any single, central resource on all WW2 subjects (I don't think there is one),  there is a wealth of knowledge on here to be tapped into.

[MarkHa]

Wow, what brilliant responses, far more than I was expecting and thanks to everyone above for your guidance. It's somewhat unnerving to post on new forums, so I'm doubly appreciative of the replies.

 

My summary from the above would be;

 - the subject of colour schemes is a mine field 

- there is no holy grail www.rightcolourforanysituation.com website 

- I'll use RLM65/70/71 which sounds as good as it gets for summer '43

 

thanks again, Mark

[Graham Boak]

It's good to get a response like yours, rather than a deathly silence...  Well, any response really.  However, if you quote the example you want to make -  variant/unit/codes - you might be able to get a direct reference.  No promises, but most kits are based on known photos anyway.

[rossm]

@Phantome seems to be trying to complete this major task. See :-

I'm not sure how many more he has done.