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Bf 109 late variats - transition to new upper wing camouflage patterns?


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Is there a known date or paint order issued (unlikely I know) that might provide a cut-off for when Bf 109 upper wing surfaces stopped using the factory patterns in the link below:

 

http://theprofilepaintshop.blogspot.com/2013/10/chosing-correct-wingpattern-for-bf109g-6.html

 

and started being painted in the wavy edged and more generic "late war" patterns (2, 3, 4 below):

 

spacer.png

 

Note I'm asking exclusively about the shape of the pattern used, not the RLM colour transition.

Edited by Vlad
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I'm not aware of an official order but its difficult to pin down because you can find Regensburg G14/AS in 1945 with the basic pattern used since 1940 while you can also find Erla built G-6s with the later (no4 on your chart) in mid 1944 (note capture White 16 from Jg300)

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Would that G-6 be Horst Prenzel's aircraft accidentally landed in the UK? I don't doubt your claim that it wore the later pattern, but despite it being well photographed I can't seem to find one clearly showing the wing upper surfaces.

 

Do you have any pictures of a G-14/AS in 1945 with the early Regensburg pattern?

 

In any case this has helped more than you realise. My interest is in a (most likely) Regensburg built G-6/AS in the summer of 1944. So if Erla was potentially using the new pattern around then but not earlier, and Regensburg was still using the old one later on, and this aircraft was probably built in spring '44... gives me confidence using the Regensburg pattern (which I realy like visually anyway).

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The Japo books are excellent references for this kind of detail.

Page 8 of 'Messerschmitt Bf109K camouflage and marking' shows a camo diagram for the 'G' model which was referenced in G models of Oct '43,Dec '43, Aug '44 and Jan '45.

This seems to match dwng.1 above from the graphic which is identical to the one on page 109 of the MMP book on Bf109 late versions. More useful for you if the accompanying text had been shown with it !

According to the Japo book, Regensburg produced the 'K' model from Sept 1944 simultaneously with the G14 (amongst others) as the 330xxx batch(the first?), probably with dwng.4 above wings, although the different schemes may have continued. From my reading, it is at this point of the war that the detail of camo schemes particularly diversify.

MMP -per the schemes above - suggest '2' was typical for early production G14/AS.

HTH

 

 

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I'm in no position to scan photos right now (I'm also not sure of the rules here about it) but you can find examples of both in Eagle Editions 2 vols on Jg300.

 

I also think the captured Croatian 14/AS 'Black 4' has the basic mtt pattern, so I have to admit that while you can find them in 1945 I cant say when they were built, as it could have been late 44.

 

Seeing your interests lie in a G-6/AS in mid 44 I would have no issue using the early wing pattern.

 

Although no to open a can of worms but I'm curious as well...were G-6/AS delivered camouflaged or in an all over lighter colour? you see so many like that and the camo'd ones seem to be less than regulation, I wonder if they were all (mostly?) delivered in a lighter colour.

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5 minutes ago, Phas3e said:

I'm in no position to scan photos right now (I'm also not sure of the rules here about it) but you can find examples of both in Eagle Editions 2 vols on Jg300.

 

I also think the captured Croatian 14/AS 'Black 4' has the basic mtt pattern, so I have to admit that while you can find them in 1945 I cant say when they were built, as it could have been late 44.

 

Seeing your interests lie in a G-6/AS in mid 44 I would have no issue using the early wing pattern.

 

Although no to open a can of worms but I'm curious as well...were G-6/AS delivered camouflaged or in an all over lighter colour? you see so many like that and the camo'd ones seem to be less than regulation, I wonder if they were all (mostly?) delivered in a lighter colour.

This is a fair point. FalkeEins blogspot would be a useful reference.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Phas3e said:

Although no to open a can of worms but I'm curious as well...were G-6/AS delivered camouflaged or in an all over lighter colour? you see so many like that and the camo'd ones seem to be less than regulation, I wonder if they were all (mostly?) delivered in a lighter colour.

 

That's a very good point... one I may choose to ignore for the sake of my sanity 🤣

 

I have found some pictures of the Croatian 14/AS, am quite satisfied that looks like an early Regensburg pattern.

 

I have the FalkeEins page open for my G-6/AS:

 

http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2020/06/yellow-14-bf-109-g-6as-of-iii-jg-1.html

 

but the wings are now shown clearly. Eduard's kit instructions suggets the Regensburg pattern on the wings however. No idea what pattern that AZ models kit box art is using.

Edited by Vlad
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This matter is interesting.

I spent lots of times in discussion with IPMS members and historical witnesses. As a summery note for any a/c at this time, no matter if German or Japanese: Everything you do not have approved by photos is open to discuss and guess. It all must just be plausible and reasonable.

Considering the fact, that all transport lines were hampered and delivery chains were not working properly. And time counts in a war, if action presses to get you’re a/c ready!

Improvements at fields were common, changes of wings and rudders if necessary too.

Happy modelling

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