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Scratching yet another Israeli Sherman itch. M50 Late on M4 Composite (3-way kitbash episode 1)


Kingsman

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Yes, this itch is taking some scratching.  So I've started on another one.  Only another 3 on the build list, but 2 of those might go into a stash cull as they've been done several times before.  I'm trying to keep to the less usual ones.  And this one is certainly less usual.  There are pictures of quite a few early VVSS M50s converted from M4 Composites with the cast glacis and welded main hull.  Often mis-identified as M4A1s from the front in photo captions, and as "normal" M4s from the rear.  However, photos of the full late M50 conversion of this Sherman type with Cummins engine and HVSS are very much rarer. I've only seen 2 that can be definitively identified.  But they did exist.

 

Plan A was just to cross-kit a Dragon Composite with a Dragon M50.  But, having had a "never again" experience on another recent build with the M50's nasty HVSS and realising that the M50 turret is wrong for a Composite and needs other work, I had a re-think.  Plan B as shown in the photo involved using the better AFV Club HVSS and an unused Shapeways M50 turret conversion plus my precious last TWS Cummins engine deck and M50/51 detail set.  This effectively rendered the M50 kit unnecessary and it has been consigned to the surplus pile as I have no other use for it.  Roger so far?

 

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Edited by Das Abteilung
Bad spelling!
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Plan B involved 2 key criteria to test before wasting the rest of the parts.  Firstly, could I make the Shapeways turret conversion work.  Secondly, would the AFV Club HVSS suspension be compatible.  So I thought I'd better try these first.

 

Here is the turret well on the way to being complete, but with the Shapeways parts incorporated after some 3D print stripe sanding and a coat of Mr Surfacer.  I discovered that for some reason (probably being cheapskate!) I'd chosen the Shapeways set without the fabric mantlet cover: bummer.........  A new mantlet would be about $25 with shipping and a complete new conversion over $50.  Ouch!  So out came the lead foil and the sweary words.  It has just about worked.  The AFV Club suspension brackets actually fitted the Dragon lower hull with no fuss apart from a bit of filler on the redundant HVSS mounts.

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Now, the observant among you will have noticed sandy-coloured lower rear hull parts and plastic card.  That's because this build is now on Plan C!! 

 

One of my other planned builds is an M1 Super Sherman - an M4A1E8.  I had planned to use a Dragon Op Cobra M4A1(76) with more AFV Club HVSS.  But the penny dropped that if I swapped this for a Tamiya M51 then I would have the HVSS and I could nick the Cummins parts and hull side stowage etc for this build, thus saving my last precious TWS sets for the proverbial rainy day.  The radial engine parts from this Composite kit will go on the M51 hull to backdate that.  The standard 76mm turret for the M1 Super will come from a Tamiya M4A3E8 for which I have other plans.  The Dragon and Tamiya parts are essentially compatible with a little simple adjustment because of the slightly different parts engineering.  

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Following with great interest, and the only time I ever touched a Dragon Sherman it was a "never again" experience lol🤣

 

You certainly seem to like kit bashing, i.e. mixing and matching various kit parts from diff manufactures, which is always fun to watch in my book.

Edited by Cerberus
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One thing about Shermans is that they are always great to kitbash, the biggest issues being that to the uninitiated they all look very similar!! Still you have a good selection of kits there to work with. I would like to say that I am a bit of a Sherman nut but Israeli ones arent my forte! Will watch with interest. 

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1 hour ago, Threadbear said:

One thing about Shermans is that they are always great to kitbash

Except for annoying dimensional differences and differences in parts engineering when it comes to swapping parts around.  Not to mention a zilllion factory and production period variations in parts that you need to watch out for.  And which manufacturers are only slowly now getting to grips with.  In some ways I would like MiniArt to turn their attention to M4s.  I like the way they're tackling plant and date variations on their Pz IVs.

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On 18/01/2021 at 01:21, Das Abteilung said:

In some ways I would like MiniArt to turn their attention to M4s

 

 Well, they have done M3 Lee/Grant so there is hope, would be good if they did the whole M4 line, it would also be good if it was actually possible to buy Tasca/Asuka kits in the UK, the old Tasca kits are still some of the best kits ever made in my opinion.

Edited by Cerberus
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The Tank Museum shop have some of the Asuka M4s and they do mail order.  And need the support in these strange times.  But £60-ish.  I'm not sure I want to pay that for a kit where I still need to splash out on after-market parts and non-vinyl tracks.  Bronco put their indy link tracks in their Ram for half that money, for example.  £12-16 extra on top of an Asuka.

 

I had a poor experience with an Asuka Sherman V I bought last year, by comparison with a Tasco-boxed VC I'd had for a few years.  Covered on my RMASG WIP thread.  Flash, pronounced mould lines, belled edges.  Mould wear.  These are quite old kits now.  Having said that I have their more recent desert Sherman III and that's a lot nicer.  I fancy their desert Sherman II but those are still going for £50+ and I got a Dragon one for half that.  I've built a couple of RFM VCs and had a good look at their M4A3E8 and the Meng M4A3. I would go for these I think if I needed any of those.  Their VC is definitely better than the Asuka IMO: hope they do other variants, but there isn't much more mileage in an A4 hull other than a vanilla Sherman V: ARV, DD or Crab, perhaps. 

 

The Tamiya M4A3E8s, M51 and M1/M4A1(76) are good, if a little simplified.  All the other Tamiya M4s are rubbish.  Dragon's M4s are all getting very tired now. Academy's A2s and A3s are actually surprisingly useable: probably on a general par with the Dragon offerings.  Italeri M4s are best avoided: often confused and generally not great.  The Zvezda late M4A2 has a turret hatch problem but is otherwise quite nice and has link and length tracks.  They will be doing an M4A3(76) this year: different turret.

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  • 3 months later...

it's been 4 months since I last posted anything build-wise on this project, and as if by magic it's actually finished - apart from the tracks.  There is a Browning for the turret top mount but I forgot about it for the photos.  And I see now that the small oil can on the fender (still loose for painting) has fallen over.

 

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  • Kingsman changed the title to Scratching yet another Israeli Sherman itch. M50 Late on M4 Composite (3-way kitbash episode 1)

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