RidgeRunner Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 On the detail of Starfighters Giorgio @Giorgio N is the main man. Martin 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 52 minutes ago, Dansk said: Ok chaps I’ll take the plunge and order a TF kinetic, if my wife asks ‘why are you buying even more model kits? you have loads’ then I’ll blame it on you... Did I mention I have an italeri 1/32 in the stash too? 😄 Good man Feel free to blame it on us as it was our fault for leading you astray. All part of the service Now, when are you starting on the 32nd scale one for us? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dansk Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) Thanks everyone for the good advice, very much appreciated that’s why I love this place 😊 1 hour ago, modelling minion said: More than happy to take the flak for you mate.👍 Of course you can mate, not a problem. Which of the two options are you interested in? I am happy either way. No you didn't, you kept that one quiet! Which one have you got, as they do a C, a G and two seater. Definately the USAF one from nam / puerto Craig thank you so much 🙏👍 That’s also why I love this place 😊 The italeri is a little too optimistic for the timescale of the remainder of this GB, it’s a big kit. https://www.scalemates.com/kits/italeri-2514-lockheed-f-104-starfighter-g-s--1140444 Also - I discovered this little gem just now - I bought ages ago and forgot about it, It will come in very useful! https://www.dacoproducts.com/KDCB005.php Edited January 3, 2021 by Dansk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dansk Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 32 minutes ago, Col. said: Good man Feel free to blame it on us as it was our fault for leading you astray. All part of the service Now, when are you starting on the 32nd scale one for us? 😁 The ‘32 I don’t know what GB that will sit in nicely this year except perhaps Nordic with revised decals, so I suspect a 2022 build. Especially if this goes through he says, shamelessly and blantantly promoting it .... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Dansk said: 😁 The ‘32 I don’t know what GB that will sit in nicely this year except perhaps Nordic with revised decals, so I suspect a 2022 build. Especially if this goes through he says, shamelessly and blantantly promoting it .... Slick Have a couple of F-104 in the stash so will sign up for this one Liking the title change to this thread as well 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Some references, Paul @Dansk, all public domain images: F-104S. The the other S in the background in Splinter scheme. Messerschmitt F-104G Messerschmitt F-104G (ex 26+87 MFG) Canadair CF-104 I hope they help. Martin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dansk Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 minute ago, RidgeRunner said: I hope they help. Brilliant, Thanks so much Martin👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Dansk said: Brilliant, Thanks so much Martin👍 No problem. Glad to help . There were other schemes, of course, inluding the ex-CAF CF-104 grey/green, ex-WGAf splinter, etc. They even applied the WGAF splinter scheme to some of the S-models. Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I just noticed, Paul, the the last one is a CF-104. Sorry.....(CAF serial 104751) Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dansk Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 Martin @RidgeRunner does my airframe (messerschmitt assembled and ex-luftwaffe) 683D-7037 have bulged or flat undercarriage doors? Its hard to see on my references Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 bulged, Paul. The other doors were for the thnner wheels (A/B/C/D/F/J/DJ and CF-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Just to illustrate other schemes: ex MFG Messerschmitt F-104G ex-WGAF Messerschmitt F-104G in splinter Martin 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelling minion Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I really like the well weathered ex-Marineflieger one, especially with the tanks being in the Luftwaffe green, at least the one that we can see. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dansk Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) Martin @RidgeRunner can I exploit your expertise again? let’s say I wanted to build a danish cf-104d from the kinetic tf-104g kit Are we looking at some majory surgery? Or is it doable from those sprues? the sprues and instructions can be seen here Thaanks if you can help Wikipedia tells me this about the cf-104 Canadair CF-104 200 Canadian-built versions, built under license by Canadair[2] and optimized for both nuclear strike and 2-stage-to-orbit payload delivery, having NASARR R-24A radar with air-to-air modes, cannon deleted (restored after 1972), additional internal fuel cell, and Canadian J79-OEL-7 engines with 10,000 lbf (44 kN)/15,800 lbf (70 kN) thrust. CF-104D 38 dual-control trainer versions of CF-104, built by Lockheed, but with Canadian J79-OEL-7 engines.[2] Some later transferred to Denmark, Norway and Turkey. Edited January 4, 2021 by Dansk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I believe they were upgraded to TF-104G standard - I could be wrong. Giorgio ? @Giorgio N This might help Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 How about this gorgeous girl? https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lockheed_CF-104D_Starfighter_Mk2,_Denmark_-_Air_Force_AN1188456.jpg 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said: I believe they were upgraded to TF-104G standard - I could be wrong. Giorgio ? @Giorgio N This might help Martin Martin, I believe that most of the CF-104 sold to other countries after the retirement from the RCAF were modified to a standard more similar to the G, that is with the heavier-duty landing gear and the relative bulged doors. This sure applies to the Danish aircaft, pictures of which show well the wider wheels. IIRC the Danish CF also received the MB seats 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said: I believe they were upgraded to TF-104G standard - I could be wrong. Giorgio ? @Giorgio N This might help Martin Martin, I believe that most of the CF-104 sold to other countries after the retirement from the RCAF were modified to a standard more similar to the G, that is with the heavier-duty landing gear and the relative bulged doors. This sure applies to the Danish aircaft, pictures of which show well the wider wheels. IIRC the Danish CF also received the MB seats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dansk Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said: How about this gorgeous girl? https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lockheed_CF-104D_Starfighter_Mk2,_Denmark_-_Air_Force_AN1188456.jpg Yes that’s the exact one I’m contemplating building. The danish aircraft in their green guise all get so trashed they look fantastic. I think it could be really fun to replicate it. Thx for the thread link I’ll check it out now. I found this on Danish airframes... http://www.916-starfighter.de/F-104_RDAF_serial.htm Heres that airframes info... RT655-10465522.02.7218.10.84withdrawn from usepreservedscrap dealer at Bjerringbro ready at Lockheed on October 26, 1964; delivery date as 12655 to SAL, Prestwick on November 3, 1964 as Mk 2 (Dual Operational Aircraft); taken on service by RCAF as CF-104D serial number 12655 on November 28, 1964; first unit 1 Wing, 1 Air Division on March 8, 1965 at CFB Lahr; 4 Wing at CFB Sollingen on June 12, 1970; reserialled as 104655 effective June 2, 1970; to SAL, Prestwick for storage on August 14, 1970 with 1.095 flight hours; sold to Denmark September 24, 1971; delivery date to Denmark coded “RT-655” on February 22, 1972; IRAN to MAP standard and fitted with the Martin Baker Mk. DQ-7A ejection seat and painted flat dark green on February 29, 1972; Esk 723 on August 29, 1972; August 5, 1975 IRAN and J-79-GE-11 engine installation; April 19, 1978 painted in the gloss dark green scheme; Esk 726 on January 1, 1984; October 12, 1984 last flight; withdrawn from use October 18, 1984 with 3.440 flight hours; to Karup Air Base for BDRT assessment training aid on February 13, 1986; May 3, 2006 last noted; moved to scrap dealer Orla`s Produktforretning (Orla`s Product shop) at Bjerringbro, Denmark sometime between November 2006 and January 2007; the aircraft is displayed as his own aircraft April 20, 2007 first noted; scrap dealer name is Jatob at Bjerringbro, previous called Orla`s Produktforretning (changed name in 2008); its still preserved at scrap dealers house at his scrapyard; August 2018 noted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dansk Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Giorgio N said: Martin, I believe that most of the CF-104 sold to other countries after the retirement from the RCAF were modified to a standard more similar to the G, that is with the heavier-duty landing gear and the relative bulged doors. This sure applies to the Danish aircaft, pictures of which show well the wider wheels. IIRC the Danish CF also received the MB seats Thanks Giorgio you guys rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dansk Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) Here she is more recently I can’t tell if the wheels are the bigger ones can you? (screengrabs shared in flickr i didnt take these) Edited January 4, 2021 by Dansk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Those doors look like bulged ones to me. You can see that on the top photo. @Giorgio N? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) Wider wheels and bulged doors ! The doors are often hard to see in pictures and the bulge can go unnoticed. This time it's visible. In general the wheels are easier to identify as even if they look similar they differ by the relative position of the hub and the rim: the narrow wheels (CF-104, F-104J, early G) have the hub protruding outside the rim. The wider wheels (F-104G, S and most TF-104G) have the hub "inside" the rim plane These pictures show what I mean... Narrow wheel on a CF-104D: http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/grant_little/cf-104d/images/cf-104d_14_of_59.jpg Wide wheel on an F-104G: http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/ulrich_wrede/f-104g_22+98/images/f-104g_22+98_38_of_99.jpg You can see how in the narrow wheel the spokes edges are angled from the hub towards the aircraft centreline while in the wide wheel the spokes are angled toward the wingtips. This relative position of the hub on the axle remains the same so that the wide wheel can be mounted on any F-104 main landing gear without modifications. Of course the added width of the wheel means that the original doors can not contain them anymore, hence the need for the bulged doors. In theory the narrow wheels can also be mounted on any F-104 and the parts list for the Italian F-104S for example still include the narrow wheels, although these were never used on this variant. Edited January 5, 2021 by Giorgio N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dansk Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) Thanks @Giorgio N and @RidgeRunner cool, then I guess building it as a G with all the G parts / seats etc from the kinetic box and we are good? Edited January 5, 2021 by Dansk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Remember the ecm fairings under the tail 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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