dalea Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Is POTUS/ U.S.Marines still using the SH-3? Surely they can afford a newer one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Still using the VH-3. There were plans to replace it with modified Merlins but costs kept going up and it was cancelled. It seems to me that there had been thoughts to replace with a UH-60 but headroom is a problem besides being smaller on the inside compared to the VH-3. The Marine unit that flies the VH-3 also has some MV-22s for logistical support, but I don't think they'll switch to those any time soon for Presidential transport. Later, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotthldr Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 The USMC are awaiting delivery of 23 VH-92 helicopters scheduled to start in April of this year, to replace both the VH-3 and VH-60 currently with HMX-1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 3 hours ago, e8n2 said: MV-22s for logistical support, but I don't think they'll switch to those any time soon for Presidential transport. Absolutely... barring Hollywood emergency-style situations there is no way they would put the top of the chain of command on one of those, though folk lower down the food chain are deemed to be acceptable risks. Scott, is the 92 coming into HMX-1 service as soon as this year? I thought it was 2023? Not sure I am up to date though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Work In Progress said: Absolutely... barring Hollywood emergency-style situations there is no way they would put the top of the chain of command on one of those, though folk lower down the food chain are deemed to be acceptable risks. Is it risk alone? Maybe also noise, comfort, etc.... can the MV-22 land everywhere a SeaKing can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_W Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 During a visit a few years back, POTUS flew over my house en route from Central London to Air Force One. Blackhawk, two Ospreys and a pair of Apaches for backup. Impressive formation keeping too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonywood Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 6 hours ago, exdraken said: Is it risk alone? Maybe also noise, comfort, etc.... can the MV-22 land everywhere a SeaKing can? On Obama's last visit they landed 2 x VH-3 and a MV-22 on the lawn at the ambassadors residence next to Regents Park so I would imagine the footprint isn't that different between the types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 55 minutes ago, tonywood said: On Obama's last visit they landed 2 x VH-3 and a MV-22 on the lawn at the ambassadors residence next to Regents Park so I would imagine the footprint isn't that different between the types. thanks! there es space, ( distributed) weight, downwash, etc to consider! but maybe I am just wrong! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky dancer Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Re. the VH-92, there is also this to consider:- https://verticalmag.com/news/presidential-helicopter-still-burns-up-white-house-lawn/ Not as bad as the MV/CV-22; there was video footage out there of a CV-22 setting fire to a grass field on engine start-up and having to do an expedited lift before the flames spread... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyJammedKenny! Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 They're still flying the VH-3's over our home, sometimes as onesies, sometimes as two-ship formations, at other times in conjunction with VH-60s. This past summer I saw and heard the VH-92s doing familiarization flights around DC. They are extremely noisy in comparison to the VH-3s, and I expect them to trigger more noise complaints, depending on their avenues of approach/departure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil5208 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 On 1/2/2021 at 6:27 AM, e8n2 said: Still using the VH-3. There were plans to replace it with modified Merlins but costs kept going up and it was cancelled. It seems to me that there had been thoughts to replace with a UH-60 but headroom is a problem besides being smaller on the inside compared to the VH-3. The Marine unit that flies the VH-3 also has some MV-22s for logistical support, but I don't think they'll switch to those any time soon for Presidential transport. Later, Dave Rumour this side of the pond in defence circles was the Merlin's were cancelled due to congress realising they weren't an American design and therefore unsuitable to be used by the President 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsprop Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, neil5208 said: Rumour this side of the pond in defence circles was the Merlin's were cancelled due to congress realising they weren't an American design and therefore unsuitable to be used by the President That would seem like a very logical reason. Westland had been paid huge amounts to complete all the design work (as far as I'm aware all the designs had been complete) and were waiting for the final contract to put the aircraft into production. The cost *had* increased because the US asked for multiple material changes, these changes had been made and fitted to the aircraft - however this had already been paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collin Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 VH-92's are flying out of HMX-1 around DC currently...along with the current group of VH-3's. I've seen the new birds up and down the river south of the Navy Yard on a more frequent basis (along with seeing them down at Pax River). Cheers Collin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotthldr Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Why have they never built a properly equipped heli pad at the White House? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 The White House and its gardens are 'historical listed buildings'. No major changes may be made. Rather like a Grade 1 Listed building in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 As I was watching the new tonight, they switched to Trump arriving to make a speech at a rally in Dalton, Georgia. The Marine One that carried him from the airport to the rally was... a VH-60! Must have been a short hop and Melania wasn't with him so that must have made a difference in which chopper to use. The costs on the Merlin were going up and up and up. Sen. McCain was complaining about it and the then Secretary of Defense Bob Gates decided to cancel it. The AV-8A was mostly made in Britain and a British design and yet it was still purchased. There are no helicopter factories in Arizona, so it wasn't a matter of McCain trying to help out somebody local. Later, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil5208 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 19 minutes ago, e8n2 said: There are no helicopter factories in Arizona, so it wasn't a matter of McCain trying to help out somebody local. Typical of the US Defence procurement system, the Pentagon and untold specialist find the best item for the job and then congress or lobbyist complain because its not American, the US Marine Corp has been trying to replace the M4 and M16 for best part of 20 years and are blocked every year but the congressional oversight commitee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robertone139 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 hour ago, e8n2 said: As I was watching the new tonight, they switched to Trump arriving to make a speech at a rally in Dalton, Georgia. The Marine One that carried him from the airport to the rally was... a VH-60! Must have been a short hop and Melania wasn't with him so that must have made a difference in which chopper to use. The costs on the Merlin were going up and up and up. Sen. McCain was complaining about it and the then Secretary of Defense Bob Gates decided to cancel it. The AV-8A was mostly made in Britain and a British design and yet it was still purchased. There are no helicopter factories in Arizona, so it wasn't a matter of McCain trying to help out somebody local. Later, Dave You forget a certain senator from Connecticut where they build Suckhorkies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, neil5208 said: Typical of the US Defence procurement system, the Pentagon and untold specialist find the best item for the job and then congress or lobbyist complain because its not American, the US Marine Corp has been trying to replace the M4 and M16 for best part of 20 years and are blocked every year but the congressional oversight commitee. Slightly OT, but in this case Congress always had good reason to do it since all proposals resulted in negligible improvements against massive costs. Even now that the USMC has found a sneaky way to replace the M4 there are some serious doubts about the validity of buying a rifle that while sure better than the M4 in certain aspects is twice more expensive.... Edited January 5, 2021 by Giorgio N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsprop Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 2 hours ago, neil5208 said: Typical of the US Defence procurement system, the Pentagon and untold specialist find the best item for the job and then congress or lobbyist complain because its not American, the US Marine Corp has been trying to replace the M4 and M16 for best part of 20 years and are blocked every year but the congressional oversight commitee. The exact same happened with the KC-X programme. The Airbus A330 MRTT was selected, however, it was then blocked as it was not US and the contract was awarded to the KC-46. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil5208 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, wellsprop said: The exact same happened with the KC-X programme. The Airbus A330 MRTT was selected, however, it was then blocked as it was not US and the contract was awarded to the KC-46. Which the Air Force has had to ground at least twice for quality/safety issue and had several boom strikes against refueling aircraft due to the remote boom control system fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg B Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Politics gents. Its again starting to push the boundaries.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt-92 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I'll tread carefully 9 hours ago, e8n2 said: The costs on the Merlin were going up and up and up. Sen. McCain was complaining about it and the then Secretary of Defense Bob Gates decided to cancel it. Hmm... somewhat understandable because of the large amount of re-re-redesigns to incorporate desired components from US sources. And of course, there is that bit about having your CinC flittering about in a 'foreign' aircraft that plays a role. Even the Dutch Royal Flight preferred using a Fokker. 9 hours ago, e8n2 said: The AV-8A was mostly made in Britain and a British design and yet it was still purchased. Only because it's unique featureset (and limitations) were perfectly suited to USMC use. After which they took the design and ran with it culminating in the B/GR5+ family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsprop Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 An incidental point on the VH-71 (AW101), the development aircraft that were purchased by the US were then bought by Canada to use as spares for their CH-149 Cormorants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robertone139 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) The VH71 was dropped by Obama and supporting Connecticut Senator Hillary Clinton when he showed up in DC, the subsequent tender was rigged in favor of Suckhorsky that by that time was owned by Lockheed Martin, no other OEM participated in that tender. Ironically LM had been the winning prime contractor for the VH-71 with the AW-101 airframe. <political content> And I'll leave the self implied politics out of this. <if only> Edited January 9, 2021 by Mike Removing political content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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