robgizlu Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Reaaly neat work Beefy - You are becoming quite the master at intricate PE. I am loving it!! Agree about scary Agree with Michal - the lattice tower makes them look very modern. On 1/6/2021 at 6:17 PM, longshanks said: Oh you silly boy, so small. Just think what you could do in 1/35 Keep up the good work .... Stay safe Kev Who is that chap by the way? Rob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshanks Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Just now, robgizlu said: Who is that chap by the way? No idea 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefy66 Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, robgizlu said: Reaaly neat work Beefy - You are becoming quite the master at intricate PE. I am loving it!! Agree about scary Agree with Michal - the lattice tower makes them look very modern. Cheers Rob Not sure about the master thing I just try and copy the things I see other people are doing around here that is why I call BM my home schooling site don't we all. 14 minutes ago, robgizlu said: Who is that chap by the way? Rob 11 minutes ago, longshanks said: No idea It is like watching a great double act Morecombe and Wise spring to mind Right I have a bit of a dilemma about the colour of the ship I received the western approaches set from @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies that has 1941-1943 on the tins I know I should read the instructions better but the thing is after actually doing some reading up on her history I have noted that she was built and commissioned in late 1943 after what is said to be the record build time for this class good old Geordie grafters. Now would it be Possible that the ship would still have been painted in the early colours as looking at the tin it does seem quite a light shade so with reference to the early photo I posted which looks a darker shade would the later B55 or B30 have been used as the 1943 to 1945 set. This constant colour change by the RN is a total mine field Stay Safe beefy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Hi Keith, If commissioned that late in the Royal Navy (as opposed to Royal Canadian Navy who kept using the old paints well into 1944) then it's almost certain that we'd be talking about B55 instead. If you don't have B55, then you can approximate it by adding a teeny weeny dot of WA Light Green into the WA Light Blue which saves the buying of (and more adversely the posting of) more paint. I have attempted to write a short, graphical and probably grotesquely over-simplified guide to Royal Navy WWII camouflage paints here. It's definitely incomplete and there's clearly a lot more to it, but it's hopefully sufficient to allow most people to settle in their minds what the default position would be in which years: https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/pages/royal-navy-brief-history-paints 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgizlu Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Hi Beefy If you have it check out Jamie's/Sovereign C.B. 3098 "The Camouflage of Ships at Sea" 1943 I think you are looking at B55. Jamie/Dick may feel differently Check out my thread for dleiberations about HMS Meteor - interpreting Blues from B&W pics is a nightmare Jamie has suggested B30 for Meteor which I don't think is official by way of Wartime directions? Ern (With the short fat hairy legs!) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgizlu Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Jamie - Our threads crossed - as I said the other day your piece https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/pages/royal-navy-brief-history-paints is HUGELY helpful in distilling down and summarizing the chaos that was wartime Brit Camouflage paints and schemes Rob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, robgizlu said: Check out my thread for dleiberations about HMS Meteor - interpreting Blues from B&W pics is a nightmare Jamie has suggested B30 for Meteor which I don't think is official by way of Wartime directions? Ern (With the short fat hairy legs!) I've likely got that wrong Rob, given the time frame. I suppose what I had fixated in my mind is that whilst I agree it's a Western Approaches derivative, the contrasting paint on the hull is clearly darker than the official Western Approaches colours and it's more likely something in the 20-30% RF range there, to my eye. Some of your photos could give a 15-20% impression instead, but that's why it's always good to compare several! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacca Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 On 04/01/2021 at 18:50, beefy66 said: looks like Black Cat will be the best option for the Mortar and a couple of other bits needed. I've got one of those mortars on order from Black Cat for PUMA. I'll let you know what it's like when it arrives 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefy66 Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, Chewbacca said: I've got one of those mortars on order from Black Cat for PUMA. I'll let you know what it's like when it arrives As it happens Chewy so do I the other day received an e-mail from Mike of @Starling Models he was going to be taking a break during January but with Lockdown he decided to re-open as a key supplier to all us modellers with a 10% discount for existing customers I also ordered a couple of other bits. Stay Safe beefy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefy66 Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 28 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said: Hi Keith, If commissioned that late in the Royal Navy (as opposed to Royal Canadian Navy who kept using the old paints well into 1944) then it's almost certain that we'd be talking about B55 instead. If you don't have B55, then you can approximate it by adding a teeny weeny dot of WA Light Green into the WA Light Blue which saves the buying of (and more adversely the posting of) more paint. I have attempted to write a short, graphical and probably grotesquely over-simplified guide to Royal Navy WWII camouflage paints here. It's definitely incomplete and there's clearly a lot more to it, but it's hopefully sufficient to allow most people to settle in their minds what the default position would be in which years: https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/pages/royal-navy-brief-history-paints Thanks Jamie as always a wealth of information and help I do also have a tin of B55 it was while I was looking over and sorting out my tins(sad yes I know) that I noticed this and I started looking into it But I knew I would get a quicker answer on here. Mind you these response's and looking at the time frames you could all be classed as the rapid response paint unit. 👍 35 minutes ago, robgizlu said: Hi Beefy If you have it check out Jamie's/Sovereign C.B. 3098 "The Camouflage of Ships at Sea" 1943 I think you are looking at B55. Jamie/Dick may feel differently Check out my thread for dleiberations about HMS Meteor - interpreting Blues from B&W pics is a nightmare Cheers Rob I do need to get these documents people will think I am just to lazy to read things for myself. Stay Safe beefy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgizlu Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Okay.....this is starting to sound like a drinking game...."Ern, with the short fat hairy legs, from the rapid response pain unit" I think I'm getting it!! Ern 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socjo1 Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 27 minutes ago, Chewbacca said: I've got one of those mortars on order from Black Cat for PUMA. I'll let you know what it's like when it arrives Forgive me off-topic. Black Cat sells Limbo mortars too? Or Puma had squids? These two types of mortars differented much more than Bofors gun versions, I suppose... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefy66 Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 25 minutes ago, socjo1 said: Forgive me off-topic. Black Cat sells Limbo mortars too? Or Puma had squids? These two types of mortars differented much more than Bofors gun versions, I suppose... Michal i have defiantly ordered the Squid even though I am not a seafood fan Stay Safe beefy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socjo1 Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 28 minutes ago, beefy66 said: Michal i have defiantly ordered the Squid even though I am not a seafood fan Stay Safe beefy Sorry for misunderstanding, I asked Chewbacca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefy66 Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 Well this afternoons work was slow and very time consuming the main mast I took a different approach to previous builds choosing to build it up on the superstructure to try and keep it square most of my last attempts have ended up a bit skew whiff Folded mast square and glued to base point worked up gluing the joints to bring the top together Added yard arm Added platform and HD-DF antenna Made up radar lantern Stay Safe beefy 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshanks Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 How do you improve on perfection.... Stay Safe Kev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgizlu Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 I did say Master, didn't I Couldn't get you to do some for me as well Keith? Rob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnWS Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 3 hours ago, beefy66 said: Well this afternoons work was slow and very time consuming the main mast I took a different approach to previous builds choosing to build it up on the superstructure to try and keep it square most of my last attempts have ended up a bit skew whiff Folded mast square and glued to base point worked up gluing the joints to bring the top together ... Good tip beefy. I'll have to build one of those sometime in the future. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickrd Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) beefy66, (As noted above, it has to be B55 not WALB for a British new-build completed 8 November 1943.) One other thing re the paint colours for you to consider is the treatment of the bottom of the ship in your full hull model. If you have read my interim paper on ships' bottoms hosted by Jamie on his Sovereign Hobbies site at his Colour Schemes/Royal Navy Documents and Publications page you will have seen that in December 1941 boot-topping composition on minesweepers, corvettes, boom vessels, trawlers, gunboats, water vessels, salvage vessels, tank assault vessels, tugs and similar was discontinued. Bottom protective and AF compositions were to be taken up to the previous upper boot-topping line. I am researching so that I can update this paper as I would like to find the (probably post-war) AFO restoring boot topping on such lesser vessels. So the question is, were Castles regarded as corvettes? Essentially stretched Flowers in their design origin, their designation seems to have been "single screw corvette". The very few WW2 mages that I have so far found of Castle's showing their bottoms show no boot topping (but some may of course turn up). There is also a builder's model of Berkeley Castle in the National Maritime Museum collection again showing no boot topping (sorry, cannot post links for some reason but a quick Google image search will find a colour image of it for you). So what shows at the waterline in photos of Porchester Castle may well be the bottom composition not a boot topping. It looks very dark so my current suspicion is that the whole of Porchester Castle's bottom up to where it met the above-the waterline camouflage was black anti fouling. (Delighted if anyone else can shed light on this matter.) Edited January 10, 2021 by dickrd 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefy66 Posted January 10, 2021 Author Share Posted January 10, 2021 19 hours ago, longshanks said: How do you improve on perfection.... Stay Safe Kev More practice perhaps 19 hours ago, robgizlu said: I did say Master, didn't I Couldn't get you to do some for me as well Keith? Rob Well I would love to Rob but back to work from tomorrow after my isolation period had the the all clear yesterday 16 hours ago, JohnWS said: Good tip beefy. I'll have to build one of those sometime in the future. With all the help I get it is nice that anyone thinks it is a good idea. 4 hours ago, dickrd said: One other thing re the paint colours for you to consider is the treatment of the bottom of the ship in your full hull model. If you have read my interim paper on ships' bottoms hosted by Jamie on his Sovereign Hobbies site at his Colour Schemes/Royal Navy Documents and Publications page you will have seen that in December 1941 boot-topping composition on minesweepers, corvettes, boom vessels, trawlers, gunboats, water vessels, salvage vessels, tank assault vessels, tugs and similar was discontinued. Bottom protective and AF compositions were to be taken up to the previous upper boot-topping line. I am researching so that I can update this paper as I would like to find the (probably post-war) AFO restoring boot topping on such lesser vessels. So the question is, were Castles regarded as corvettes? Essentially stretched Flowers in their design origin, their designation seems to have been "single screw corvette". The very few WW2 mages that I have so far found of Castle's showing their bottoms show no boot topping (but some may of course turn up). There is also a builder's model of Berkeley Castle in the National Maritime Museum collection again showing no boot topping (sorry, cannot post links for some reason but a quick Google image search will find a colour image of it for you). So what shows at the waterline in photos of Porchester Castle may well be the bottom composition not a boot topping. It looks very dark so my current suspicion is that the whole of Porchester Castle's bottom up to where it met the above-the waterline camouflage was black anti fouling. (Delighted if anyone else can shed light on this matter.) Thank you @dickrd after reading a couple of the very informative articles on @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies I have a slightly better understanding but not as knowledgeable as you both. I have also been going back through some of the information past to me by @socjo1 and found some photos of the hulls which show a darker lower hull. Most of the text information also refers to the class as a Corvette being an improved version of the Flower class. Stay Safe beefy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshanks Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, beefy66 said: Oooops! A new style of building perhaps ? Perhaps they tip them on their sides in the NE to paint them Stay safe Kev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefy66 Posted January 10, 2021 Author Share Posted January 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, longshanks said: Perhaps they tip them on their sides in the NE to paint them Yes Kev they get the BIG lads to roll them over when they want to get the job done properly That Photo is of HMS Berkley Castle clip from Wiki. She suffered serious damage when she capsized in dock at Sheerness due to severe flooding in February 1953 but was refloated and repaired. She was in reserve at Sheerness until 1956. She arrived at Thos W Ward Grays in Essex on 29 February 1956 for scrapping. You can see she had no boot topping line it looks like the lower hull was all one colour just like dickrd had mentioned in the previous post. Stay Safe beefy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socjo1 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) Kew, once more forgive me small off top. Quote in December 1941 boot-topping composition on minesweepers, corvettes, boom vessels, trawlers, gunboats, water vessels, salvage vessels, tank assault vessels, tugs and similar was discontinued. Bottom protective and AF compositions were to be taken up to the previous upper boot-topping line. Dear @dickrd, have you any information about fregattes? I'm building River class ship "neighbourly" on Forum. I painted black boot-topping line and hull's under water part in red. Should I remove line and/or rapain hull's bottom? Thanks in advance and best regards to all, Michal. Edited January 10, 2021 by socjo1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courageous Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Liked the technique of building the mast and its details on the superstracture, must make things a little easier to handle. Stuart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefy66 Posted January 10, 2021 Author Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Courageous said: Liked the technique of building the mast and its details on the superstracture, must make things a little easier to handle. Yes Stuart it does make handling a bit easier by using the resin part as a base it means you have a natural weight to stand it on. Small update for today made the vents for the engine room I think that's what it is also added the two portholes to the bridge front noticeable in a lot of photos and the navigation lights for each side of the bridge, all from scrap PE and plastic rod I wont be making a replacement wind breaker around the bridge even I draw the line at what my skill level can achieve. Stupid Boy well maybe but I have a certificate to say I am not completely raving mad and I am on a time schedule I want this done for the end of the month (Famous Last Words I know) Otherwise I break the missus B rule of you can only get another model if you finish one I think I might get away with it by saying the rule was for in the same month. And primed using Halfords Grey Auto Primer my go to never fails to get a good even smooth finish. Stay Safe beefy 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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