A MiG in different clothes -- MiG-23, East Germany, 1/72

[VT Red Sox Fan]

Opus, thank you for the run down.  2 quick questions--1) what do you use for a stencil (I might have you confused with someone who used a leaf) & 2) If you were doing a US Navy gloss blue aircraft, would this work (it seems multiple colors are key following the base coat).  I will be giving this a shot on my Typhoon--the results are spectacular.  Best, Erwin  

[opus999]

10 hours ago, Andwil said:

Now, I don’t want to cause any trouble, but would an East German Flogger have stencils in Russian?

 

AW

A fair point, and I'd thought of this earlier when I was researching prior to the build.  On close-ups of abandoned E. German MiG-23's (on display, but un-restored) there are a fair number of stencils in Russian.  There are a few in German too.  On restored aircraft, closeup photos reveal a mix of languages as well.  It turns out that the vast majority of the stencils on this sheet are so small and badly printed that they're just smudges instead of distinct characters.  I'd read recently that E. Germans were required to learn Russian in school, so I suppose that's one reason why the stencils are a mix of languages.

 

Besides, with the super-zoom of my camera it's easy to read, but with my eyes it's not so easy and on the shelf I wouldn't know if it was Russian, German or Swahili!   

[opus999]

4 hours ago, VT Red Sox Fan said:

Opus, thank you for the run down.  2 quick questions--1) what do you use for a stencil (I might have you confused with someone who used a leaf) & 2) If you were doing a US Navy gloss blue aircraft, would this work (it seems multiple colors are key following the base coat).  I will be giving this a shot on my Typhoon--the results are spectacular.  Best, Erwin  

1)  I ordered "Iwata-Medea Artool Freehand Airbrush Templates".  They are a bit spendy, but they are solvent resistant so I've been able to clean the paint off of them a few times now with no issues.  I think with proper care they could last for a long time.  Here's a handy link if you have nothing against Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00881ITL0/  One more thing to note about the stencils: on the P-51B build, I had the stencils pressed up against the plastic which gave the "spots" sharp edges.  I decided I didn't like that and since then I've held them 4-5 mm above the surface and sprayed through them, giving a softer edge which I think results in a more realistic finish.

 

2)  I used this technique on my F2H Banshee and it worked OK, but was very subtle.  My post (https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235058370-f2h-banshee-172-hobbycraft/&do=findComment&comment=3404888) states that I used Mr. Color Wood brown, Mr. Color Engine Gray, Testors Gunship gray and Testors Rust as the marbling colors.  I remember being very happy with the end result, color-wise, but wished I'd been brave enough to put the colors on thicker to exaggerate the contrast a little more.  So, doing test pieces in a case like this is definitely recommended.  This build also used salt weathering to emulate the pattern of weathering on these birds from sea spray (pictures of operational birds in this post: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235058370-f2h-banshee-172-hobbycraft/&do=findComment&comment=3404656). It worked well, but salt weathering is a mess, and if I were to do it today, I would just use the stencils and a highly thinned gray.  You can judge how well it turned out at the RFI: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235059278-f2h-3-4-banshee-red-rippers-172-hobbycraft/

 

 

So the short answer is "yes", but the hard part is making it subtle enough to not stand out like a sore thumb but not so subtle that its ineffective.  Which is hard.  

 

[opus999]

4 hours ago, VT Red Sox Fan said:

it seems multiple colors are key following the base coat

I just re-read my post from last night and I may not have been clear.  When I said "I find I do that better with post shading (post fading?)" I only meant the lighter sun-fading effects.  I still use a marble coat of different colors to create changes in tone in the final coat.  My usual plan of attack is to primer with Mr. Surfacer 1500 black, then do the marble coat, put the base color (camouflage) coat on and then do little faded bits (if appropriate) after the initial paint scheme is finished.

[VT Red Sox Fan]

Opus, from your builds awesome results the above is sound advice. I will be investing in the IWATA templates--maybe that could work for Japanese mottling which seems even more random than Luftwaffe mottling.  I really appreciate the thin coats you have produced--the cammo on my FW190's was close to the right consistency, but as you point out above it is a fine line walk between success and covering up the pre shading.  I am hoping to recover some of the details with a pin wash as I have seen you pull off well in the past.  BTW, wan to reiterate your MiG is coming out awesome.  Best, Erwin  

[opus999]

Just a quick update.  Before I put the last of the decals on Monday night, I found I had a little oops to fix.  It turns out the blue tak I was using to seal up the cockpit was squished and resulted in this:

 

 

I thought I'd checked it before painting, but I missed it.  So a little sanding and paint all was good again.

 

So, the last few decals went on, followed by a protective gloss coat.  Tonight I got weight in the nose and glued that on.

 

 

and now I'm down to all the little details....

 

 

kinda like being nibbled to death by frogs.... but the end is in sight!

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

12 minutes ago, opus999 said:

Just a quick update.  Before I put the last of the decals on Monday night, I found I had a little oops to fix.  It turns out the blue tak I was using to seal up the cockpit was squished and resulted in this:

 

 

I thought I'd checked it before painting, but I missed it.  So a little sanding and paint all was good again

Is that the side the pilot would mount up ? If so a good excuse to give it some scuffed paint along the sides and edge of cockpit sill. 

[The Spadgent]

Almost there. Excellent work. 👏👏👏

 

[billn53]

20 hours ago, opus999 said:

 

 

 

and now I'm down to all the little details....

 

 

kinda like being nibbled to death by frogs.... but the end is in sight!

Oh yes! It always seems that the “to do” list at the end of the builder is longer that at the beginning. 

[opus999]

20 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Is that the side the pilot would mount up ? If so a good excuse to give it some scuffed paint along the sides and edge of cockpit sill. 

I should've thought of that.  Well, I'll probably do it anyway!

 

2 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Almost there. Excellent work.

Thank you!  I see the light at the end of the tunnel and I don't think it's a train.

 

48 minutes ago, billn53 said:

Oh yes! It always seems that the “to do” list at the end of the builder is longer that at the beginning. 

Isn't that the truth?  When I was a kid, the last thing I did was apply decals.  Now applying decals seems to mark the halfway point!

[opus999]

Oil wash and dirt streaks finished and dull coat applied!

 

 

I also started penciling in the panel lines.  The bottom is finished, but I am waiting for the dull coat on the top to cure.  Here's a close up showing dirt streaking and panel lines.

 

 

and more...

 

 

and more...

 

 

I also got the small pieces painted and am starting to gloss coat them for weathering:

 

 

I noticed on the undersides of operational MiG-23s there are some interesting stains running along some of the panel lines.  I suspect these lines are the edges of access panels.  The staining could be oil leakage, or perhaps lubricant from the fasteners seeping into the paint (Which I've seen on F-4's up close).  There is a photo series of a couple of E. German MiG-23's that look like they were taken from another MiG-23 all over the internet.  These show the stains I am talking about quite well, but I am reluctant to include them here as I don't want to run afoul of copyright.  This photo shows the staining that I am talking about... it is on the underside toward the back:

 

MiG-23 underside
See page for author, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons

 

Here's a close up from that picture that shows what I am talking about:

 

 

This picture sort of shows it as well:

 

MiG-23 armament
See page for author, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons

 

So a little post shading is in order.  The challenge lies in the fact that the model didn't have those panel lines, so I will need to figure out where they go and put them in before I shade them.

 

With all the little tiny details that are still left, I don't think finishing tomorrow is feasible, but I am getting very close! 

[billn53]

Interesting set of photos showing the underside staining. That’s the best way to ensure authentic looking weathering, in my experience. 

[2996 Victor]

This is looking wonderful, @opus999

 

The pencil-line panel lines are once again amazingly realistic, and I think you've got the oil wash just right - too often it's a bit overdone, IMHO. If it were me, I think I would try to keep the staining to a minimum.

 

Looking forward to seeing the final details being added.

 

Kind regards,

 

Mark

[bigbadbadge]

Oh wow, the underside shot of your model showing your pencil panel lines is flippin amazing,  I have tried doing this before but could never hope to get those results.  I am I awe , wow. Great work 

Chris

[Nikolay Polyakov]

13 hours ago, opus999 said:

So a little post shading is in order.  The challenge lies in the fact that the model didn't have those panel lines, so I will need to figure out where they go and put them in before I shade them.

I saw some accurate representation of the panel lines on the underside of fuselage... Looks like you’re used a pencil for this job, isn’t it? If so, it went really good, I must say. 👍

[opus999]

A small update today.  Events conspired against me and I wasn't able to do as much as I wanted, but I'm still happy with what I got done.

 

I finished adding panel lines to the nose and then gave it an additional dull coat to seal those in.  Then I added those stains around the panel lines on the underside.  I used Tamiya pastels with a hairy-stick paintbrush for those.  Lastly, I took off all the masking.

 

 

 

 

I finally got to see the underside lights!  They've been masked since before the primer.  I think they look pretty darn good!

 

 

[opus999]

16 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

Oh wow, the underside shot of your model showing your pencil panel lines is flippin amazing,  I have tried doing this before but could never hope to get those results.  I am I awe , wow. Great work 

Chris

 

10 hours ago, Nikolay Polyakov said:

Looks like you’re used a pencil for this job, isn’t it? If so, it went really good, I must say. 👍

Thanks to you both! I have been working to perfect the penciled panel lines method and I like the look of them much better than anything else because they're very subtle.  I think the secret is to get the smallest mechanical pencil possible (mine is 0.2 mm, which I think is the smallest made).  Any other size at this scale doesn't look realistic.  The other thing that helps the realism is to go over the line gently with an eraser after drawing it on.  That dials back the darkness.  The nice thing is that I'm not afraid of raised panel line models (like this one) anymore.  I just sand 'em off and draw them back on at the end.

 

16 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

The pencil-line panel lines are once again amazingly realistic, and I think you've got the oil wash just right - too often it's a bit overdone, IMHO. If it were me, I think I would try to keep the staining to a minimum.

Thanks Mark!  I'm always afraid of making the oil stains too dark, and on this one I actually lightened them up after walking away for an hour and coming back.

[bigbadbadge]

They look fantastic,  thanks for the tips too.

Chris 

[Nikolay Polyakov]

16 hours ago, opus999 said:

The nice thing is that I'm not afraid of raised panel line models (like this one) anymore.  I just sand 'em off and draw them back on at the end.

And I like how it works. The sanded panel lines looks very old school - it’s definitely have its character. 👍 Fantastic work here.

[VT Red Sox Fan]

Incredible with what you have done with the weathering--the in flight photos really build the credibility.  Best, Erwin

[opus999]

First of all, I confirmed that the stained panel lines were edges and hinges to access doors.  You can see that quite clearly in this really great video that shows how the main gear folds into the body:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8l-UxIS1ts It's only about 30 seconds long, and it's worth watching -- there's some tricky engineering there.  

 

The last couple days were a bit of a rabbit hole.  I'd decided a while ago to "spruce up" the dashboard, which looked awfully plain.  The only real reference photos I could find were of other builds, mostly 1/48.  I had to wing it.  First, I used some wire from braided electrical wire and laid it on the dashboard, then bent some of my thinnest styrene to put along the side.

 

 

I then painted it based on the reference photos I had, and cut a little styrene piece to put in front of the HUD (which will be painted).  

 

 

When this is dry, I have a bit of silver wire I bent to put around the outside for the defroster (I think that's what it is).  I also brushed ocean gray on the wires to make them stand out a little.  Out in the open like this, I think it looks a little cheesy -- certainly not as nice as some of the resin cockpit/dashboard sets I saw in the bigger scales -- but when I dry fit the canopy it looks fine.  Can't see much detail anyway, especially on shelf, so I think it was a win.  It was hard to make it look good, or at least make it look like I'd pictured it.

 

Anyway, while I was at it, I decided I was not happy with how incredibly bare and plain the main gear wheel wells were.  The way they open, there is a pretty good chance that one can see into the wheel wells from the side, just sitting on the shelf, so I started gathering pictures!  Once I had some good pictures, I started using a couple gauges of wire to make all the different hydraulic (and other) lines seen in the pictures.  You can also see these lines quite clearly in the video linked to above.  There were some trunks of hydraulic lines running from top to (almost) bottom and I had to line 3 wires up side-by-side to glue together with super glue.  I found that putting them on Tamiya tape allowed me to move them with a toothpick so they would touch. 

 

 

I then put a thin layer of gel CA on them.  When that was dry, I peeled off the tape and then put the wires back on the tape, except with the glue side down this time.  I painted them black while on the tape.  When the paint was dry, I could cut them to size.  I used some of the silver colored wire from the braided electrical cord that I used on the dashboard for hydraulic lines.  On the starboard side there was a much bigger yellow tube and I used some of my thinnest diameter styrene for that.  The pictures I collected were from various aircraft from different nations.  I never found pictures of both wheel bays from the same aircraft.  So the colors don't really match from one side to the other, and I'm not sure if they should or not.  

 

 

 

Most importantly, they don't interfere with the landing gears!  I'm not super thrilled with the hydraulic lines because the silver wire was stiff and hard to work with in such a small space, so they ended up looking a bit sloppy compared to the photos.  In spite of that, though, it does look pretty neat and much better than it would've been without.  Besides, as long as no one brings a picture with them to compare to my model it should be fine. 

 

So, that was a time-consuming rabbit hole... but I think the build is better for it.  

 

[2996 Victor]

Excellent work on the cockpit and wheel bays, I'd say - that extra detail makes a huge difference especially with the added texture of the hydraulic lines etc and their contrasting colours. Using fine electrical wire is a great technique and one I'm going to squirrel away for future use!

 

Kind regards,

 

Mark

[opus999]

Still cleaning up minor details... and in the process added more minor details...

 

I'm not going to cover the minor touch-ups and gloss-coating of small bits.  I will note however that I re-painted the missiles because they were too dark.  I also added a couple more coats to the gravel shield on the front wheels for the same reason.

 

The interesting things I did this week included painting all the dielectric panels dark gray (Mr. Color's Dark Sea Gray) which included behind the cockpit:

 

 

This was a challenge because Hasegawa didn't provide any panel lines for me to copy before I sanded them off, so I had to scrutinize the photos I took at the museum (luckily I took some from a balcony overlooking the MiG). and photos of operational MiGs.  I also painted these:

 

 

Its hard to see, but there is dark gray on the dogtooth too.  These were tough for the same reason.  I had to really examine photos of operational MiGs, and I'm not sure I got these entirely right. Close enough will have to do.

 

Last night I only had the energy to paint the various metal bits, including the horizontal stabilizers:

 

 

 

Note in the picture above that there is some fuselage color on the forward panel.  This is because that panel is actually attached to the fuselage and remains fixed while the rest of the assembly moves.  i suppose those stabilizers can be removed and the fixed part gets painted with the fuselage, because... why not?  On a few operational MiGs, it looked like this forward panel was the underside color, which would've meant some masking.  This was only on a very few of the pictures I saw.

 

Also in my museum pictures I saw an (American) football shaped plate that the "Odd rods" were attached to.  I confirmed in all my other pics that the Odd rods are unpainted metal.  I think I was able to match my photo pretty well:

 

 

The range finder (I think) under the nose is usually metal, but sometimes underside color.  I went for metal.  Also notice the black, which I painted Monday night.  The Black is on the vast majority of Mig-23's, but a very few have underside color there instead.

 

 

As an added bonus I was dry fitting the pitot tube and it broke in half.  It happened so easily that I suspect there was a defect in the plastic.  Of course I lost the broken piece.  Luckily, the tapered part that fits in the nose was still there, so I cut the rest of the pitot tube off right at where it steps down and attached some styrene rod.  I still have to paint the front part of the tube silver.

 

 

I think I have all the little niggling details taken care of, so the major tasks to day are to add a wash to the landing gears, wheels and missiles, mask and paint the canopy (Ugh), dull coat the washed pieces, paint the missiles and final assembly.  will I finish it today????

[opus999]

Nope!!

[opus999]

It's not a big deal... just more little details than I expected.  All is well!  

 

I guess I should've said: " Nope  "

Edited January 30, 2021 by opus999