Tweener Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 Does anyone know how well the old FROG DH.60 Gypsy Moth builds, and would it be appropriate to mark it as a DH.60M with the included decals, or would other work have to be done to make that accurate? Thanks, Tweener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelldoc Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 The old FROG Gipsy Moth is not very accurate, and the RAF version is not correct. But I do it years earlier: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/16245198332/in/photolist-wMJGJg-qKwTuq https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/20208277075/in/photolist-wMJGJg-qKwTuq Conclusion: It's an old kit, out of the time. modelldoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweener Posted December 24, 2020 Author Share Posted December 24, 2020 7 hours ago, modelldoc said: The old FROG Gipsy Moth is not very accurate, and the RAF version is not correct. But I do it years earlier: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/16245198332/in/photolist-wMJGJg-qKwTuq https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/20208277075/in/photolist-wMJGJg-qKwTuq Conclusion: It's an old kit, out of the time. modelldoc How hard do you think it would be to correct the kit to represent a DH.60M? Great job modelling "Jason" by the way, I really should consider building more civilian aircraft when I get the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJP Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 I'm curious to know exactly what is wrong with the Frog kit. I'm sure many - even most - kits are imperfect in some respects but what specifically are we talking about here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelldoc Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 I can only quote from Lines & Hellstroem: FROG Model Aircraft - The complete history of the flying aircraft & the plastic kits, pg. 168: "1965... de Havilland DH 60G Gipsy Moth F 169 1965 - 1967 / 1966 - 1969 marking G-AAAH F 227F 1969 - 1971 / F 169 1974 - 1975 G-AAAH & RAF A trail blazer. The kit actually represented a fairly standard DH 60 G and not , as illustrated on the box art, the modified aircraft flown by Amy Johnson. Neither was it correct an RAF DH 60M" That's all. modelldoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrik Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 I do not think there is anything really wrong with the Frog kit. It is an old kit indeed, with all that belongs to it = very poor interior details, simplified exterior details, all struts, trailing edges etc. on the heavier side. Nevertheless, I think the shapes are quite accurate in general, and the kit is sound base for reasonable representation of the airplane. Especially, if you find one of the original early Frog boxings, when the moulds were still in their best shape. Of course, it is more or less standard DH.60G, so quite a long way to go to DH.60M. @Tweener I did the DH.60M half-conversion myself many years ago, see below. As it was in my pre-Britmodeller times, I kept no photographic evidence or any kind of build log from the build itself. So as far as I remember, one should: 1. add the upper wing slats 2. modify the (upper) front part of the fuselage in order to represent the DH.60M engine installation better 3. add the long exhaust pipe on the port side 4. modify the undercarriage - straight vs. cross axle 5. modify the tail skid The list does not have to necessarily complete, it's been too many years since I build the kit. I addition, I scratchbuild the interior, rescribed some panel lines, added some exterior details and replaced the kit propeller with an Aeroclub white metal one. And now, why I said half-conversion. I did not have the morale to modify the flat fuselage sides. At that time I concluded it was too much work for the purpose and I did not trust my skills would allow me to do it to my full satisfaction. The eventual extent of the necessary conversion can be seen clearly from the very last photo below, that compares the fuselages of A-model DH.60M (left) and DH.60X (right). So as a conclusion. If you want military Moth out of the Frog kit, I would recommend to go for one of the DH.60X in military service. If you want DH.60M, try the A-model kit, which is definitely on my build list. It is a short run kit, not the best one, I must say, however, in my opinion, still less laborious job than converting the Frog kit properly. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith in the uk Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 The A Model kit is the way to go , i built the 1.48th kit and was very pleased with the result . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orso Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 On 12/25/2020 at 11:30 AM, Patrik said: it is more or less standard DH.60G, so quite a long way to go to DH.60M. @Tweener I did the DH.60M half-conversion myself many years ago, see below. Thanks for the information. One week ago I had an idea for this conversion but never got around looking for the information needed. I know of the A-model kit but I want to do something with my old Frog kits in the stash. Now I have something to start with in my search for more .information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweener Posted January 13, 2021 Author Share Posted January 13, 2021 On 12/25/2020 at 5:30 AM, Patrik said: I do not think there is anything really wrong with the Frog kit. It is an old kit indeed, with all that belongs to it = very poor interior details, simplified exterior details, all struts, trailing edges etc. on the heavier side. Nevertheless, I think the shapes are quite accurate in general, and the kit is sound base for reasonable representation of the airplane. Especially, if you find one of the original early Frog boxings, when the moulds were still in their best shape. Of course, it is more or less standard DH.60G, so quite a long way to go to DH.60M. @Tweener I did the DH.60M half-conversion myself many years ago, see below. As it was in my pre-Britmodeller times, I kept no photographic evidence or any kind of build log from the build itself. So as far as I remember, one should: 1. add the upper wing slats 2. modify the (upper) front part of the fuselage in order to represent the DH.60M engine installation better 3. add the long exhaust pipe on the port side 4. modify the undercarriage - straight vs. cross axle 5. modify the tail skid The list does not have to necessarily complete, it's been too many years since I build the kit. I addition, I scratchbuild the interior, rescribed some panel lines, added some exterior details and replaced the kit propeller with an Aeroclub white metal one. And now, why I said half-conversion. I did not have the morale to modify the flat fuselage sides. At that time I concluded it was too much work for the purpose and I did not trust my skills would allow me to do it to my full satisfaction. The eventual extent of the necessary conversion can be seen clearly from the very last photo below, that compares the fuselages of A-model DH.60M (left) and DH.60X (right). So as a conclusion. If you want military Moth out of the Frog kit, I would recommend to go for one of the DH.60X in military service. If you want DH.60M, try the A-model kit, which is definitely on my build list. It is a short run kit, not the best one, I must say, however, in my opinion, still less laborious job than converting the Frog kit properly. Having just gotten the Frog kit for a price I couldn't say no to, I may try the conversion using some .020 inch Evergreen Strip to represent the fuselage stringers. I'll probably ignore the exhaust pipe and undercarriage issues, but the rest seems fairly achievable. Thanks for the notes on what needs to be fixed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr T Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Many years ago ( late 1978) I built the Frog/Novo kit as a DH60M. I thinned the wings down and added ribs from stretched sprue which was then sanded down. The fuselage had stringers added (again from stretched sprue). The exhaust and undercarriage were made up from Slaters micro rod. Was pleased with it at the time as it took my mind of the stress of martial breakdown. Got a photo of it somewhere which I will scan if anyone is interested. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icedtea Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 On 1/13/2021 at 10:42 AM, Tweener said: Having just gotten the Frog kit for a price I couldn't say no to, I may try the conversion using some .020 inch Evergreen Strip to represent the fuselage stringers. I'll probably ignore the exhaust pipe and undercarriage issues, but the rest seems fairly achievable. Thanks for the notes on what needs to be fixed! Since you already have the Frog kit...thats the one to go with but A Model produce a whole series DH60's including a genet (radial) engine version and the M' also Moths on floats etc. AVI model do a couple of versions too mainly antipodean I think. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Thompson Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 With a little practice, an easy way to do fuselage stringers is to make a copy of the surface with a piece of paper (the actual model will dictate whether or not you should do each surface separately or sides and top in one go) , cut a sheet of 5 or 10 thou plastic card to match, then emboss the stringers using a straight edge and an empty ballpoint pen. The 50+year old way to attach the new piece would be to carefully run liquid cement along one edge, wrap around and secure the other end, but you can do the same these days with superglue with less chance of melting anything. When done on the top decking you also have the advantage of flawlessly fixing any seam. If just doing the sides, or just the top, it isn't hard to neatly make an invisible join with the unmodified surface, and filler shouldn't be needed. Personally I find this method much easier than removing or filling, then reinstating, innacurate or overdone kit detail (think Revell Sopwith Triplane and Nieuport 28, for example). Just talking about fuselage stringers/longerons here. Wing ribs require a different approach. Paul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweener Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 On 1/16/2021 at 11:46 PM, Icedtea said: Since you already have the Frog kit...thats the one to go with but A Model produce a whole series DH60's including a genet (radial) engine version and the M' also Moths on floats etc. AVI model do a couple of versions too mainly antipodean I think. HTH In the end I ended up buying a set of decals for a Belgian DH.60G (naturally, for 50% more money than the kit itself) so now I don't have to do much in the way of modification for an accurate final result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matave Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) On 12/26/2020 at 3:07 PM, Orso said: Thanks for the information. One week ago I had an idea for this conversion but never got around looking for the information needed. I know of the A-model kit but I want to do something with my old Frog kits in the stash. Now I have something to start with in my search for more .information Björn, You may do the Swedish Sk 7 no. 51... Just add the long exhaust pipe, put some more details on the engine and modify the nose, or take one from Amodel. Edited February 2, 2021 by Matave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orso Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Yes that has been on my radar. I'm thinking of Jean Batten and her Australian flight. I have A-models DH60T that is the same kit as their DH60M so I might use it as a pattern for a conversion of the Frog kit. I have three Frog kits left so two Swedish and Jean Battens plane is probably what I will do. There are some things on the Batten plane I need to check up first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr T Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 After much delay, partly due to Mrs T having to work from home while some remedial work is done at the surgery, I have found the photo of my Frog DH60M that was finished in 1978. Hand painted and with decals made up from heavens knows where. It was rigged with stretched sprue held in place with PVA as superglues were only just becoming widely available. Today I would just use the Amodel kit, but in those days, men were men, women were women and modellers were real modellers who would go forth and boldly split infinitives (with apologies to the late and great Douglas Adams) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweener Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 On 2/4/2021 at 12:26 PM, Mr T said: After much delay, partly due to Mrs T having to work from home while some remedial work is done at the surgery, I have found the photo of my Frog DH60M that was finished in 1978. Hand painted and with decals made up from heavens knows where. It was rigged with stretched sprue held in place with PVA as superglues were only just becoming widely available. Today I would just use the Amodel kit, but in those days, men were men, women were women and modellers were real modellers who would go forth and boldly split infinitives (with apologies to the late and great Douglas Adams) A lovely looking conversion - especially with regards to the landing gear and rigging! Hopefully my second DH.60 (In Polish Markings) will come out looking as nice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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