RAF Wedgetails to Lossiemouth

[Slater]

Presumably this is no surprise to anyone?

 

(Sorry ,can't get the link to work, but it's on the latest at Janes.com)

Edited December 19, 2020 by Slater

[junglierating]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-55351077

[Truro Model Builder]

I can understand the practicalities of basing the Wedgetails and the Poseidons at the same location in terms of maintenance and training, but with No.5 Squadron disbanding and No.51 Squadron likely to relocate to Mildenhall to take advantage of the USAF's Rivet Joint facilities (and be able to take off with a full fuel load), Waddington is going to become a very quiet place. And so much for the ISTAR centre of excellence.

[John B (Sc)]

Hmm, 

Those wedgetails may make for interesting handling in any strong crosswinds - lots of directional stability but imagine the sideways push when on the deck.

 

Could make for interesting viewing at Lossie - or perhaps they will have low crosswind limits specified and will just divert instead...

[Roland Pulfrew]

25 minutes ago, John B (Sc) said:

Hmm, 

Those wedgetails may make for interesting handling in any strong crosswinds - lots of directional stability but imagine the sideways push when on the deck.

 

Could make for interesting viewing at Lossie - or perhaps they will have low crosswind limits specified and will just divert instead...

Or maybe use the other runway??? 😉

[Adam Poultney]

With the wedgetails coming in and the E3s leaving service, I hope there are plans to have an E3 at the RAF Museum

[speedy]

I’m very out of touch nowadays. E3s’ leaving!, blimey I remember them turning up; where do the time go. So 51 Sqn what do they operate now then?

[jaw]

51 Sqdn operate the RC135W - the horribly named Rivet Joint (ugh!)

 

John

[Filler]

15 hours ago, Truro Model Builder said:

I can understand the practicalities of basing the Wedgetails and the Poseidons at the same location in terms of maintenance and training, but with No.5 Squadron disbanding and No.51 Squadron likely to relocate to Mildenhall to take advantage of the USAF's Rivet Joint facilities (and be able to take off with a full fuel load), Waddington is going to become a very quiet place. And so much for the ISTAR centre of excellence.

I’ve been a bit out of touch with what’s going on this year in the military aviation scene, but I thought the plan was for Mildenhall to close despite a stay of execution, and everything was off to Germany except the 135’s that we’re heading to Fairford to be joined by our 135’s due partly to Waddingtons newly resurfaced and flattened but too short runway.

 

Makes you wonder how much they spend on relocation plans that get binned. I’d seen some very detailed budgeting documents on Fairford getting new overruns, landing instruments and accommodation.

 

One thing does seem clear though, a desire to base our ever shrinking collection of aircraft at as few airfields as possible to allow sale of land and maximise savings. I could easily see Waddington being not closed as such, but reduced to a small non flying station with just the drone piloting done from offices, or is it shipping containers?

[Truro Model Builder]

No, the Mildenhall closure plan is now abandoned. The RC-135 detachment will remain there, and not move to Fairford, where it was anticipated that 51 would join it. I suspect a move to Mildenhall is now in the planning.

 

Meanwhile, I bet there's a lot of joy in the households of 8 Sqdn crewmembers at the thought of a move to the north of Scotland.

 

And if you though Rivet Joint is bad, it is preferable to Airseeker.

[Tiger331]

So............even more assets for the soon to be created RSAF (Republic of Scotland Air Force)

[canberraman]

49 minutes ago, Tiger331 said:

So............even more assets for the soon to be created RSAF (Republic of Scotland Air Force)

An interesting point.  By my reckoning RAF Lossiemouth will eventually house 4 Typhoons sqns, 2 x P8 Poseidon sqns and the Wedgetails of 8 Sqn.  Should Scotland become independent at some not too far off point, then having that many of the Royal Air Force's front line units stationed north of the border could become a problem.  I'm assuming an independent Scotland would retain a proportion of the current MOD assets as they have been partly funded by Scottish taxpayers, but clearly they could not expect to keep over half the Typhoon fleet and all the ASW and AEW platforms.  (And then of course there is the question of the independent nuclear deterrent at Faslane). 

 

Perhaps that is why Waddington and Leeming will maintain spare capacity in the event that they are to be expanded again in the future?

[Slater]

10 hours ago, jaw said:

51 Sqdn operate the RC135W - the horribly named Rivet Joint (ugh!)

 

John

The US has an unending series of odd code names. In the "Rivet" series there's Rivet Stand, Rivet Quick, Rivet Brass, Rivet Amber, Rivet Card, Rivet Ball, Rivet Dandy, etc, etc.

[XV107]

34 minutes ago, Slater said:

The US has an unending series of odd code names. In the "Rivet" series there's Rivet Stand, Rivet Quick, Rivet Brass, Rivet Amber, Rivet Card, Rivet Ball, Rivet Dandy, etc, etc.

 

Red Hebe, Red Dean, Blue Dolphin, Green Cheese, Red Beard, Violet Club, Scarlet Bunny, Green Garlic, Indigo Bracket.... I can't imagine where they might have picked this penchant up from...

 

(I have made one of those up. But only one...)

[Lord Riot]

That has to be Scarlet Bunny that's made up!? I'm sure an ex had one of those!

 

It's good news about the Wedgetail, despite the silly name and low number of airframes. I assume they're more use up there near the GIUK gap than in southern Britain, so it seems a sensible decision, albeit probably not one many of the families will welcome perhaps.

[Phone Phixer]

Well they will only be returning to the base 8 Sqn used with the old Shackleton's. The wheel keeps turning.

[XV107]

2 hours ago, Lord Riot said:

That has to be Scarlet Bunny that's made up!? I'm sure an ex had one of those!

 

It's good news about the Wedgetail, despite the silly name and low number of airframes. I assume they're more use up there near the GIUK gap than in southern Britain, so it seems a sensible decision, albeit probably not one many of the families will welcome perhaps.

 

Yes - Blue/Brown Bunny aka Blue Peacock was a nuclear mine based on Blue Danube. The made up bit was 'scarlet'...

Because the weapons were to be buried on the North German plain in times of tension where it looked as though WW3 was imminent, there was a need to prevent the electrics from getting too cold - so one of the suggestions was to put a chicken coop in the device (it was huge. The chickens would be provided with food and water, and their body heat would prevent the mechanism from freezing. The chickens' reward would be to be instantly cooked at Gas Mk 100,000 when the carefully-toasty electrics worked as advertised.

The idea was rejected as barking mad, but when it appeared in the archives, it was presumed to be an April Fool's joke until someone pointed out that, no, it was quite true.

Which has nothing to do with Wedgetail or Lossie, but hey-ho.

[Slater]

The RAF does seem to be quite invested in the 737 platform. 

[John B (Sc)]

On 12/19/2020 at 10:11 PM, Roland Pulfrew said:

Or maybe use the other runway??? 😉

I did wonder about that - the other runway (10/28) is quite a bit shorter so may only be available at low weights.  I am assuming that when the airfield was closed for runway refurbish/upgrade and (I think) added turning space for the P-8s  was added on the main 05/23 runway that the other runway was also worked on.  I don't recall seeing any signs of new manoeuvring areas being built for the alternate runway mind you ! 

[stevej60]

On 21/12/2020 at 01:30, Slater said:

The RAF does seem to be quite invested in the 737 platform. 

My thought's exactly Slater,yes I suppose the technology and engine efficiency means  smaller air frames can be used but if I were

out over the cold Atlantic and North sea I'd like to be in a bigger aircraft and maybe see an extra pair of engines out of the window

you don't think price had anything to do with it do you?

[Agent K]

30 minutes ago, stevej60 said:

My thought's exactly Slater,yes I suppose the technology and engine efficiency means  smaller air frames can be used but if I were

out over the cold Atlantic and North sea I'd like to be in a bigger aircraft and maybe see an extra pair of engines out of the window

you don't think price had anything to do with it do you?

30 years ago when ETOPS/EROPS started I felt the same, but engine technology, engineering and reliability and indeed power is so much better than for previous decades (as seen by.... until recently.... vast swathes of 330's, 350's, 767's, 777's, 787's etc transiting the pond and other such routes daily and safely) it's less of a concern.

[Team Aer Lingus]

I do hope their going to put at least one of the Sentries out to pasture @ Duxford or Dunsfold  logically but I get the feeling media  image is more important to the top brass sadly 

 

Eamonn

[Tiger331]

4 hours ago, Beermonster1958 said:

Should that happy eventuality become reality, the "Independent Nuclear  Deterrent" would no longer be an issue as it will be removed from Scotland.

It will be up to the UK government to find a base for it.

As far  as Lossiemouth is concerned, I see no reason why there should not still be an RAF presence there.

We have USAF bases in England after all. 

Subject to agreement with a post Independence government, I see no reason why "foreign" assets should not continue to be based there.

Besides, I already have 2 squadrons of RSAF F/A-18E Coinnspeach (Hornet) already based there!! 😉😂

 John

 

Interesting but somewhat flawed perspective. The USAF bases in England (and Scotland) are there under long-standing bilateral and NATO agreements. A newly independent Scotland would, I suspect, have some difficulty applying for NATO membership given the openly declared policy regarding the removal of Nuclear weapons from Scotland. NATO highly values the UK's Independent Nuclear Deterrent so any action that potentially risks the effectiveness of this asset will be viewed very dimly. This would, I dare say, have a 'knock on' with the negotiations between the rest of the UK and RoS over basing rights for the Royal Air Force, which is a UK asset. I will not enter into any political debate over any of this but merely state that the topic was a largely unresolved issue last time around (in 2014, during that other 'once in a lifetime' referendum).        

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

On 12/20/2020 at 12:18 PM, Truro Model Builder said:

Meanwhile, I bet there's a lot of joy in the households of 8 Sqdn crewmembers at the thought of a move to the north of Scotland.

 

It's not exactly my neck of the woods but it's not too far either and I know the area well. Whilst some undoubtedly will prefer the most densely populated bustle of the English midlands and south, the Moray area has a surprising number of English accents around belonging to people who apparently fell in love with the area and either never left or returned to settle back there after finishing their RAF careers. Much like west Wales and parts of Cornwall, some will hate the idea of being a long drive from urban areas and everything implied with that whilst others love it for exactly the same reasons. There probably aren't too many sold by "the brochure" as it were, but Moray seems to be a place which does a good job of selling itself once people have spent a bit of time there

[AliGauld]

45 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

It's not exactly my neck of the woods but it's not too far either and I know the area well. Whilst some undoubtedly will prefer the most densely populated bustle of the English midlands and south, the Moray area has a surprising number of English accents around belonging to people who apparently fell in love with the area and either never left or returned to settle back there after finishing their RAF careers. Much like west Wales and parts of Cornwall, some will hate the idea of being a long drive from urban areas and everything implied with that whilst others love it for exactly the same reasons. There probably aren't too many sold by "the brochure" as it were, but Moray seems to be a place which does a good job of selling itself once people have spent a bit of time there

As you say a lot of folk seem to stay once they've experienced it.

I know that the last time I was home I had never heard so many English accents on Dingwall High Street before.

 

Whilst Moray isn't Ross and Cromarty it's still a lovely part of the world. I spent a lot of time there in my youth either following Ross county in the Highland League, with the Cadets at Kinloss or Lossiemouth and Fencing training camps when we used to stay in Findhorn.