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WW2 Vickers Valentia data needed


JWM

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Ah, but to see the Virginia, Victoria, and Valentia in injection-moulded plastic! I would pay good money for that!

 

Regards,

 

Jason

Edited by Learstang
Small change.
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The only company I was (or still I am) counting on is Valom - with series of stuff like Bombay, Harrow, Albatros, Albacore and recently C46. The Virginia will feel herself comfortable in that company :)

Regards

J-W

 

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I've thought the same, J-W! And I'm hopeful they'll bring out a post-war British transport such as the Hastings, in 1/72nd scale. Who knows - they did the SARO Cloud, maybe they'll tackle some more pre-war British flying boats.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

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56 minutes ago, Learstang said:

SARO Cloud,

Indeed, however a  the case of Cloud is specific. As you know a single Saro Cloude was in Czechoslovakia before WW2 (OK-BAK) - so it was favorable in some way (documents, interest)  for a Czech company comparing with others rare types. The fuselage is in Kbely museum in Prague!

 

But we can still have hope for Short Singapore (as well as Valentia), for example!

Regards

J-W

Edited by JWM
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I would do Cloud with pleasure if I would found any of this machine (both UK or maybe German, ex-Czechoslovak?) from WW2 period. BTW - I know that well after WW2 the Czechoslovak Cloud was converted into a motorboat (later went to Kbely museum and was back convertedto airplane fuselage), but what was her fate during WW2?

Regards

J-W

 

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9 hours ago, JWM said:

But we can still have hope for Short Singapore (as well as Valentia), for example!

Regards

J-W

 

If Mr. Lomitzki just came out with those two, I would be thrilled, and a bit poorer!

 

Regards,

 

Jason

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On 4/15/2021 at 5:32 PM, JWM said:

Those both companies are from my home town Kraków, like also Choroszy, Ardpol (currently closed) and Karaya and few more less known. It looks that it is real basin of  resin models. I think I met each of the owners at least once in person...

You should also mention the owner of Mars Studio (figures 1:15 and AFV 1:72) - we were both frequent visitors to his house in the 1970s.

 

On 4/15/2021 at 5:32 PM, JWM said:

During my schools years (so 1970s) I visited one of them in his flat and I was astonished by the collection of British interwar machines in 1:100, all scratch  build, as far as I remember. And there was a Valentia/Victoria among them.  I have to ask my brother (@KRK4m) to help my memory - was it father of current owner of Luckgraph?

As you can see, after 50 years, memory often plays tricks. The collection of RAF silver biplanes (but in 1:72, not 1: 100) was indeed the work of Jacek, whose younger son, Lukasz, owns the LukGraph company. But you saw them only in the mid-1980s, you were already graduated from college and military, and the collection of your models was in the display cases at my house, because you (with two small children) were constantly moving from flat to flat. Jacek is an active modeller to this day (in his 70s) and still creates masters of forms for LukGraph models.

 

On 4/15/2021 at 5:32 PM, JWM said:

He had also a collection of scratched war ships in 1/1000 (?) - the waterline models as far as I remember...

And so it was at the end of the 70s, when you were still in high school, when you saw (in a completely different place) a collection of 1:1000 waterline ships built from scratch (aircraft carriers and battleships from the Pacific war). Their creator was Janusz Skulski, known today as the author of books on Japanese battleships and cruisers published by Conway.

Cheers

Michael

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Since I am  close to start work on Valentia - the critical  question to experts: do you think that the K3160 "SJ" of 70 Squadron RAF in 1940 was in light earth/dark earth with alu dope bottom (this is what I think about it).  This is a serious question. This recall me the most striking serious children question, which my older daughter asked me when she was in age of 5 pr less (for sure she was not alder because I remember when I was telling this story to colleges in army, when I had to be in  in 1985-6 and it was when she was five and half  till she was six and half..) So the question was:  "Dad, but I am asking you seriously, is the God exists or not?"... So it looks how desperate we need truth... And people with knowledge...

Regards

Jerzy-Wojtek

 

 

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Judging from this photo, it certainly couldn't have been Dark Earth plus Light Earth as the contrast is way too strong.

Since the Middle Stone did not yet exist in August 1940, it must be Light Earth and Dark Green.

Cheers

Michael

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10 minutes ago, KRK4m said:

Judging from this photo, it certainly couldn't have been Dark Earth plus Light Earth as the contrast is way too strong.

Since the Middle Stone did not yet exist in August 1940, it must be Light Earth and Dark Green.

Cheers

Michael

Do you have an idea of the exact colour they used for lettering? In this and in others it seems a grey, but in some it seems quite bright. Could it be a red?

 

49945053131_8b8e51d151_o.jpg

neg000 by Sandeha Lynch, on Flickr

Edited by Sandeha Lynch
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In this photo, the lower end of the "S" is darker than the light camo color (presumably Light Earth), which in turn is darker than the yellow outline of the RAF roundel.

Therefore, IMHO the Sea Gray Medium is the best candidate. Certainly not any red - look at the red dot in the roundel centre.

Cheers

Michael

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11 minutes ago, Sandeha Lynch said:

Do you have an idea of the exact colour they used for lettering? In this and in others it seems a grey, but in some it seems quite bright. Could it be a red?

 

49945053131_8b8e51d151_o.jpg

The shade of gray for red is in middle of roundel - so it is definitely different from the color of "SJ", moreover following the rules it should be gray.  The blue on insignia is very light, so either it is ortho film or its is pre-war bright shade. 

 

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4 minutes ago, KRK4m said:

In this photo, the lower end of the "S" is darker than the light camo color (presumably Light Earth), which in turn is darker than the yellow outline of the RAF roundel.

Therefore, IMHO the Sea Gray Medium is the best candidate. Certainly not any red - look at the red dot in the roundel centre.

Cheers

Michael

I'd spotted a painting with red lettering, which is why I mentioned it, though yes it's wholly different from the roundel. I suspect the darkening below the midline is down to less sunlight being reflected towards the lens.

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5 minutes ago, JWM said:

The shade of gray for red is in middle of roundel - so it is definitely different from the color of "SJ", moreover following the rules it should be gray.  The blue on insignia is very light, so either it is ortho film or its is pre-war bright shade. 

 

All of the negatives with Selassie are 35mm Panatomic X.

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7 minutes ago, Sandeha Lynch said:

All of the negatives with Selassie are 35mm Panatomic X.

I did sime fast googling to learn more on this film - it is still available and "Pana" sugggests panchromatic... 

Interesting is different shape of camo pattern here: 

49945053131_8b8e51d151_o.jpg

and here:

50735721036_781a3162d8_o.jpg

 

I hoped that since light earth replaced dark green the lihjt/dark patches can point if it is dark greek, fk earth or light earth/dark earths... But it does not work here. 

But the pattern on fuselage in "SJ" looks similar to this Bombay

RAF-officers-haul-their-luggage-from-a-B

And this Bombay is is TLS or Desert? Because the TLS looks like that

Aircraft_of_the_Royal_Air_Force,_1939-19

So for me both Bombay SH-O and Valentia "SJ" are in desert scheme rather... 

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44 minutes ago, Sandeha Lynch said:

I'd spotted a painting with red lettering, which is why I mentioned it, though yes it's wholly different from the roundel. I suspect the darkening below the midline is down to less sunlight being reflected towards the lens.

Maybe that one (with red lettering):

page_3.jpg

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I ma not sure about credibility of those profiles - the Battle with "33" which for me seem to be a pre war machine from 33 Squadron is described differently...

The VT code on Valentia is said to be  the 70 Squadron machine...

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The pre-war VT code is usually associated with 216 Sqn. Valentia K3612 has been quoted as VT-D.

As per post above 70 Sqn  used DU pre-war.

Given the tonal similarity to the roundel yellow in B&W pictures, Medium Sea Grey would seem reasonable for codes.

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  • 4 months later...

I am still searching photos of Valentia.

Today I have found on web page https://www.key.aero/article/way-we-were-raf-31-squadron

This photo: 

img_37-3_8.jpg

 

It is described " Douglas DC-2K DG473 (VT-AOV) with two Valentias after flying reinforcements into Habbaniya, Iraq, in May 1941. 31 "

There are code letters on Valentia around roundel (? - difficult to read), no serial...

Some text:

By the end of the month the rebellion had collapsed so the detachment moved into Habbaniya to support the occupation of Vichy French Syria. Wg Cdr Sydney Ubee took over as CO and under him the unit also supported the occupation of Iran, though not without incident. On August 25, six Valentias flew troops into Hafti-Khel in a bid to seize the oilfield, but both K1312 and K3611 overshot the strip and were wrecked. Fighting ceased on the 28th, and 31 Squadron returned to Lahore.

 

And perhaps the most interesting: 

The unit had two DC-2Ks at Mingaladon near Rangoon, Burma (today’s Myanmar), one of which – DG474 – was destroyed in a Japanese air raid on January 5, 1942. Evacuation flights from the city began the following month, and on March 7, Valentia JR8328/EE-B flew Hawker Hurricane pilots into Akyab (now Sittwe) on the coast. A few days later a DC-2 evacuated 67 Squadron from Magwe, followed by personnel from Akyab from the 25th. A Valentia and a DC-2 were lost there to Japanese strafing. During April some ex-civil DC-3s arrived and Wg Cdr Jenkins flew their first sortie, airlifting 28 casualties out of Shwebo in LR233. Evacuation flights from Burmese airfields continued through May, often under fire. On May 6, a DC-3 was destroyed and another damaged as they took off during a raid on Myitkyina.

 

It is difficult to see on above photo any code letters like EE... Anyway - It seems to be  prove that 31 Sq Valentia were in desert camo that time, and EE-Q/JR8328 is a full code for one Valentia... But EE code is not a 31 squadron code (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RAF_squadron_codes )

 

Regards

J-W
 

 

 

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  • 8 months later...

Sorry for exhumation of this thread but I started work on kit and have more doubts, questions, observations or speculation to be confirmed...

For instance there is a photo of SAAF Valentia descrobed as done as late as in May 1942(!) in (East?) Africa. The photo is done likely during a sunset (or sunrise) - sun light goes parallel to ground, so it is in horizon line...

46-3.jpg

 

Despite this strong sun light (look at the shadows of struts on fuselage) the bottom is very dark - a black? No insignia on bottom side.  But the gear is alu. The top look like a desert camo. 

The descriptions is "South African Air Force Vickers Valentia troop carrier 265 was photographed in May 1942. This was one of seven ex-RAF Valentias serialled 264 to 270, and 633 was another of these primitive inter-war military transports. Basically Victorias with 635 h.p. Bristol Pegasus IIM3 radial engines in place of the Napier Lions, 28 Valentias were built, and 54 Victorias were converted to Valentia standard. The tailwheel that distinguished the Valentia from the Victoria Mk VI is clearly visible here." 

It came from Aeroplane Monthly 1979-04 via Russian web page http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Arts/Art35760.htm

Here is photo secribed that done in 1941 in New Delhi, India

i11.jpg?itok=jBt1dZFx

Here another new photo:

https://waralbum.ru/298075/

Any more thought/infos/photos available?

Regards

J-W

 

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