Russian green colours

[Spitfire 123]

Hi all, I need some help finding the right colours for a 1/72 la 5. I prefer to use to vallejo, tamiya and gunze paints. The colours I need are the vvs green and black.

Cheers,

Riley

[Troy Smith]

34 minutes ago, Spitfire 123 said:

Hi all, I need some help finding the right colours for a 1/72 la 5. I prefer to use to vallejo, tamiya and gunze paints. The colours I need are the vvs green and black.

Cheers,

Riley

you need AMT-4 Green, AMT-6 Black and AMT-7 Blue.

 

see here 

http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/

 

specifically

http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/colors/color-table.html

has closest FS595 "matches" if you have access to FS595 fandeck.

and

http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/la5/la5.html

 

For Tamiya, the AMT-6 is ,  black, you might want to use NATO Black or Rubber Black, as straight black maybe too stark in 72nd. 

Tamiya XF-5 green is the closest without mixing I believe. 

AMT-7 blue you need to mix. 

 

Hmm, @John Thompson, @Learstang @Massimo Tessitori  maybe able to add more.

 

HTH

[Learstang]

I like Model Master Enamel Interior Green for AMT-4, but it looks like the MM enamel series is going to be history. It's why I've ordered a bunch of jars of the stuff to last me awhile. But it's what I use right now for Soviet GPW aircraft.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

[dogsbody]

Some Tamiya mixes:

 

WWII Soviet colors
Underside Blue – X14:4 + X15:1 + XF2:12
Topside Tan -- XF59:6 + XF64:2 + XF2:1
Topside Green – XF67
Interior Grey – XF25
Topside Light Grey – XF19
Topside Dark Grey – XF75:1 +XF54:1
Topside Blue Grey – XF23:2 + XF18:1
Topside Black Grey – XF69
Armor Green – XF49:2 + XF5:1 + XF3:1

 

 

 

 

Chris

[John Thompson]

Thanks for the mention, Troy. I've built up a stockpile of Akan aqueous acrylics and a few of their lacquers, plus a bit of Humbrol, but unfortunately none of the brands the OP is asking about. Your suggestion of NATO Black or rubber black sounds reasonable - basically a very, very dark neutral grey. I have only online samples to look at for approximate matches to AMT-4; Tamiya XF5 looks awfully light to me. I'm more inclined toward Chris's XF67 (NATO Green), or even XF58 (Olive Green). I'm sorry I can't be more specific or authoritative!

 

Lacking an FS595 fan deck, there are several FS sites online which might be helpful - here's one where you could enter the FS number suggested on Sovietwarplanes.com and compare that with an online image of the suggested colour, for example:

 

http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=24102

https://www.sunwardhobbies.ca/tamiya-acrylic-paints-xf67-xf-67-81767-nato-green/

https://www.sunwardhobbies.ca/tamiya-acrylic-paints-xf58-xf-58-81758-olive-green/

 

Yes, I know of all the technical flaws associated with that line of reasoning, but it'll get you into the ballpark!

 

John

[Seawinder]

I think Gunze's Mr. Color 126 Mitsubishi Cockpit Green is very close to AMT-4; it's certainly close to AKAN's rendition. it doesn't seem to be available in Gunze's aqueous line, so if the OP isn't comfortable with acrylic lacquers, this won't be helpful.

[Nick Nichols]

On 12/17/2020 at 6:03 AM, Seawinder said:

I think Gunze's Mr. Color 126 Mitsubishi Cockpit Green is very close to AMT-4; it's certainly close to AKAN's rendition.

The problem with Akan paints is that in different batches of paints with the same name, different shades of paint. 

Here AMT-4 and A-19 from different parties: http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_80952.html

Here Is AMT-7: http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_p_1631040.html#1631040

 

Here is the British BS450 Dark Earth: http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_p_1629650.html#1629650

 

Unfortunately, there are many such examples

[Shorty84]

Hi,

 

if using Gunze colours I use Gunze H303 (Green FS34102) for AMT-4 and H77 (Tire black) for AMT-6 (pure black would be too stark). They look quite good to my eye, especially if you modulate them further.

 

Cheers

Markus

Edited December 21, 2020 by Shorty84

[John Thompson]

12 hours ago, Nick Nichols said:

The problem with Akan paints is that in different batches of paints with the same name, different shades of paint. 

Here AMT-4 and A-19 from different parties: http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_80952.html

Here Is AMT-7: http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_p_1631040.html#1631040

 

Here is the British BS450 Dark Earth: http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_p_1629650.html#1629650

 

Unfortunately, there are many such examples

 

Ouch - well, that's bad news. I always believed that Akan paints were the end of the end for accuracy; then I got a bottle of AMT-11 which didn't match the previous one, and it kind of shook that belief. I have a bit of a stockpile, so that's concerning. OTOH, I paint so few models these days, it might never become a real problem! 

 

John

[Seawinder]

2 hours ago, John Thompson said:

 

Ouch - well, that's bad news. I always believed that Akan paints were the end of the end for accuracy; then I got a bottle of AMT-11 which didn't match the previous one, and it kind of shook that belief. I have a bit of a stockpile, so that's concerning. OTOH, I paint so few models these days, it might never become a real problem! 

 

John

Hi John. Yes, that's not good to hear. Do you use the aqueous acrylics or the acrylic lacquers?

[John Thompson]

4 hours ago, Seawinder said:

Hi John. Yes, that's not good to hear. Do you use the aqueous acrylics or the acrylic lacquers?

 

Aqueous acrylics, although I do have some of the lacquers as well. I've had good results brushing the aqueous acrylics with suitable dilution (water or isopropyl alcohol), but 2 or 3 coats are needed to get good coverage if you want to avoid brush marks. No significant experience with the lacquers yet, though - I got them from Linden Hill because he was out of stock of the aqueous acrylics on a couple of colours I wanted, as was ModelsUA. To make a short story long...

 

John

[Seawinder]

I've only used the acrylic lacquers and liked them very much although they're perhaps a little fragile.

[spitfire]

On 12/16/2020 at 10:16 PM, Learstang said:

I like Model Master Enamel Interior Green for AMT-4, but it looks like the MM enamel series is going to be history. It's why I've ordered a bunch of jars of the stuff to last me awhile. But it's what I use right now for Soviet GPW aircraft.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

I use the same for AMT 4, luckily I build up a stock before they vanished from UK sources, though the AKAN AMT-4 is darker.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[Seawinder]

5 hours ago, spitfire said:

I use the same for AMT 4, luckily I build up a stock before they vanished from UK sources, though the AKAN AMT-4 is darker.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

As I mentioned above, I like Mr. Color 126, which is similar to but darker than Model Master Interior Green. I like the AKAN acrylic lacquer best of all.

[Learstang]

6 hours ago, spitfire said:

I use the same for AMT 4, luckily I build up a stock before they vanished from UK sources, though the AKAN AMT-4 is darker.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

It seems like all the AKAN paints are rather dark, at least darker than I would like. But they do seem to be well-researched so it's difficult to question their accuracy. I may end up using their lacquers if/when my stock of MM paints finally runs out.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

[Graham Boak]

As I recall, there is some legitimate suspicion that the surviving colour chart has changed from its original state.  The darkness matched by AKAN faithfully reflects the information, but certainly the two greys together appear much darker and with less contrast than the b&w photos suggest.  The rare colour photos (for example showing Normandie-Niemen on their way home) would support this.  Beyond this I do not care to go.

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi, 

I've tried to put together some acrylic paints that are potential candidates for AMT-4. I utilized only the paints I had at home. This work hasn't the pretence to be scientific.

I made the work twice, both on the back of trasparent plastic disk and on white card. It didn't turn out well, so I had to edit some parts with Photoshop to render what I see and delete defects. So, take this as indicative only.

The candidate colors I have at home are:

Hobby Color H303 (fs-34102)  theorically, the closest to Orlov's indications on his first work on M-Hobby

Hobby color H340 (fs-34097) a bit too light and saturate, maybe a candidate for A-19F or for aged AMT-4?

Tamiya XF-89 dark green 2   too greyish, maybe for the shade pre-1937?

Tamiya XF-67 NATO green    a bit too green, in my idea.

Tamiya XF-58 olive green  a bit too dark in my idea, maybe for AII green?

AK RC-315 AMT-4    theoretically an AMT-4, but it seems a bit brownish

Italeri 4807AP flat Russian armour green (aqueous paint)   a bit dark, maybe for AII green?

 

My guess is in favour of the H 303 for airbrush use, but other candidates are in a likely range. For an eventual brush painting, Italeri are better than Tamiya or Gunze. 

 

[Seawinder]

On 12/22/2020 at 11:51 AM, Graham Boak said:

As I recall, there is some legitimate suspicion that the surviving colour chart has changed from its original state.  The darkness matched by AKAN faithfully reflects the information, but certainly the two greys together appear much darker and with less contrast than the b&w photos suggest.  The rare colour photos (for example showing Normandie-Niemen on their way home) would support this.  Beyond this I do not care to go.

In my experience and opinion the AKAN colors look dark in the bottle, but end up fine once they're on the plane and flatcoated. FWIW, here are two models that I painted using AKAN acrylic lacquers. The paints were not lightened.

[John Thompson]

Wow - good-looking builds, Seawinder! And I agree completely with your assessment of the Akan paints in general.

 

John