1/48 - Państwowe Zakłady Lotnicze (PZL) P.11c by Arma Hobby - released

[Tbolt]

First test shot 

 

https://www.facebook.com/671807596182934/posts/3827024317327897/

 

 

 

 

[VMA131Marine]

On 12/19/2020 at 10:02 PM, zigster said:

Until we see the sprues done, we can only speculate on shown CAD. And the wing is a deal breaker. Flat with rivets / grooved part / flat with rivets... and so - on.

If you’re basing this on the photo of the half mold, you’re looking at the inside surfaces of the wing halves. You wouldn’t expect any detail there.

[zigster]

VMA - I think it was clear enough "until we see the sprues..." - why do you speculate about molds?

Wojtek2 - yes, I was talking about that "cone". Sections of it are not equal to each-other. Look for the photos on Net.

Troy - that above is (or should be) well known to somebody in this line of business.

If they decided to ignore it, then they've done it for the ease of production. No point of talking to Arma.

No deal breaker, or "unbuildable" kit.

Zig

 

[GrzeM]

On 12/20/2020 at 8:50 AM, zigster said:

Looking at CAD of the  ARMA engine covers - man-vegetables.

Draw one - then copy & paste. Do you say it is accurate?

I say - it's wrong. But only to those, who cares.

Please look again. With a bit of goodwill you will notice that these sections are not the same. No copy-paste here.
Picture from the kit instruction sheet (of course based on the 3D model used in creation of the kit parts):

 

And one of the renderings published on the Arma Hobby blog:

 

Are these sections different from each other enough to satisfy you?

[alt-92]

On 12/25/2020 at 7:00 AM, zigster said:

Wojtek2 - yes, I was talking about that "cone". Sections of it are not equal to each-other. Look for the photos on Net.

They managed to get that in the 1/72 kit. 
Do you expect it to be not there now?

[Tbolt]

3 hours ago, alt-92 said:

They managed to get that in the 1/72 kit. 
Do you expect it to be not there now?

I don't have the 1/72nd but looking at photos of it, it looks like the 1/72nd scale kit has this error.

 

[alt-92]

Those panel lines extend into the fuselage part, and those look to follow the pattern shown in the CAD. 
It's behind the engine 2 fuselage join they start to diverge.

Unless you mean the line between the 9 & 10 o'clock cylinder head?

[Tbolt]

23 minutes ago, alt-92 said:

Those panel lines extend into the fuselage part, and those look to follow the pattern shown in the CAD. 
It's behind the engine 2 fuselage join they start to diverge.

Unless you mean the line between the 9 & 10 o'clock cylinder head?

Yes it the panels between 10 to 11 o'clock and 1 to 2 o'clock either side that are wider panels than the rest ( except the 6 o'clock one which appears to be a double wide one ) on the real thing, whereas they appear all the same size on the kit.

 

[alt-92]

Ah Well, in that case, it would appear to have been dealt with in the 1/48 version if the schema and CAD are used in the kit.

[Wojtek2]

Here's a picture borrowed from Arma's blog (1/48 kit sprue render) with red lines added 😀, if that can help:

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Wojtek2

[zigster]

@GrzeM In your front drawing I can see it, not obvious in shown 3D renders.

There is photo on the Net, somewhere, with all those panels flat on the floor. Then it's really clear.

For those, not familiar with P11c - ends of those panels were unequal in width, also spread of openings varied.

@Wojtek2 So it's OK to replicate those "sticking-out" fixings bits in your photo, with (I presume) dents on the sprue?

Or are they marked position for some bits of sprue to glue in? 😉

And let see, if those long strips on fuselage will be reproduced as a "panel lines" (see 1:72 models).

See any close up photo of P11 fuselage.

Sure, it was a bit of thin alloy, but it was "just above" surface. In this days it can be reproduced.

As I've said, I'm DO NOT trying to downgrade ARMA's kit, I would like to be a 85% perfect.

Zig

 

[Wojtek2]

Zigster - I'm with you demanding from Arma as detailed surface as nowaday technology allows. 
It sems like executing the fixings / fasteners of removable panels used by PZL, without simplifying them, is above ability of any mould maker (too small and too complicated for 1/48 scale - hence the round bumps on fuselage and teardrop bubbles on engine's corps covers on Arma's 11 surface - forgivable IMHO;  I've tried once on Karas to replicate them as simplified by pressing them by injection needle with self made squared tip). 
Absence of rivets (at least on the renders) is a step back compared for example with their 1/72 Yak. 
Protruding panels on aircraft surface - for example longitudinal  fuselage strenthenings - executed as protruding panels on kit surface are mandatory nowadays (scale realism aside).  Trumpeter did them for IAR-80, Arma should as well.
I'm waiting with hope for my ordered Arma kits, newertheless without the above-mentioned details - rivets and protruding panels - Arma leaves the room for impovements for another manufacturer; maybe IBG would shrink their 1/32 marvel 😀.

[zigster]

@Wojtek2 I just hope, ARMA learned from their mistakes in 1:72, and this one will be much better. 

Guess @Wojtek Bulhak is reading our prayers 😊 I'm getting one regardless of what...

Zig

[exdraken]

ARMA is back in 48th!

Very promising

 

[Homebee]

Source: https://www.facebook.com/ArmaHobby/posts/3888147954548866

Quote

Yesterday tooling workshop performed second test shots (low pressure, do not worry with sink holes apparent) of the P.11c in 1/48 scale. There will be a small correction and early next week our fingers are crossed for final test shots and production sprues ready.

 

 

V.P.

[Homebee]

Soon - probably next week !

Sources: 

http://armahobbynews.pl/en/blog/2021/01/22/pzl-p-11c-expert-set-1-48-whats-in-the-box/

https://www.armahobby.com/40001-pzl-p-11c-expert-set-1-48.html

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3905134389516889&id=671807596182934

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

V.P.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Homebee

[dragonlanceHR]

Dear Arma,

to say that I'm dissapointed in the treatment of the upper wing surface is an understatement of the century. Do you plan to ship the Expert kit with a sheet of HGW rivets?

 

Vedran

[kopperhed]

What's the problem?

[MrB17]

41 minutes ago, dragonlanceHR said:

Dear Arma,

to say that I'm dissapointed in the treatment of the upper wing surface is an understatement of the century. Do you plan to ship the Expert kit with a sheet of HGW rivets?

 

Vedran

I think you might be referring to the wing sprue photo on Arma Hobby News

It looks like this is a low res image, and it certainly doesn’t do any justice to the kit. It freaked me out when I first saw it! 
I think Arma has forgone the raised riveting, which is seen all over the PZL P.11C. There is raised fastener detail, for screw heads etc. Compared with the Mirage kit, this is a marked improvement in any case. The lack of raised rivets is probably mould release related, and I certainly would have been disappointed if it had recessed rivets (drilled out rivet holes is what I think). 

I have one on preorder and am looking forward to its arrival.

Take care and stay safe 

Best regards 

Jeff

[dragonlanceHR]

8 hours ago, kopperhed said:

What's the problem?

Do you see any scribed panel lines on the wing in this photo?

Fuselage and interior are massive improvements over the Mirage kit, but the wing is just... words fail me.

[Tbolt]

3 hours ago, dragonlanceHR said:

Do you see any scribed panel lines on the wing in this photo?

Fuselage and interior are massive improvements over the Mirage kit, but the wing is just... words fail me.

 

 

They look like lap joints, like the underside of the wing and the fuselage which they haven't modelled them on either.

 

While there are a couple of kits that have portrayed lap joints ( I don't think they were completely accurately ) it would be nice to see more kits with I can't say I'm disappointed here with the lack of them.

[dragonlanceHR]

I did not expect them to portray the spanwise lap joints, but I did not expect the chordwise trenches either. It seems that my planned strategy for the Mirage kit will have to be used on the Arma kit also.

Well, this was the first and the last time I preorder anything. Lesson learned.

[HKR]

1 hour ago, dragonlanceHR said:

I did not expect them to portray the spanwise lap joints...

I expected. It is possible even in 1/72 but, apparently, not for this company.

 

1 hour ago, dragonlanceHR said:

Well, this was the first and the last time I preorder anything. Lesson learned.

So you got caught up in the propaganda that this model would be perfect. Or, rather, the wishful thinking of potential recipients.
It seems that AH focuses on ease of assembly, at the expense of details reproducing the original. In addition, (same as in their 1/72 kit), it can be seen that they do not want to make the wing so that it looks realistic. Instead they forcefully introduce their thoughts - like recessed lines instead of lap joints.
On the pictures above, I see a strange combination of a raised strip and a recessed line on the wing, instead of a flat strip between the corrugated sheet panels.

How it should be:

There are no strips at all on the tail, just deep lines?

Not to mention the other minor and major errors that you can already see from the photos - but I'll wait for the plastic parts to judge.

PS. Scribe the missing panel line here 🤣

[kopperhed]

That looks hard to replicate on the corrugated(?) skin. I wonder how one world fix it

[MrB17]

Being a B-17 aficionado, I can sympathize with you on the lack of scale lap joints and rivets. The only B-17 kit to even have lap joints and raised rivets, was the Lindberg 1/64 kit. While grossly inaccurate, the surface detail is pretty nice, even if it is overscaled.

Getting back on track here, the IBG 1/32 PZL P-11C does have a lot more surface detail, which one would expect in 1/32 scale, however we see again the recessed lines to portray the lap joints. There are other features on this aircraft that would have been difficult to reproduce in smaller scale, such as the perpendicular flanged joints on the wing, with the rivets running throughout their length. I’d like to see even an aftermarket company try to reproduce that feature. It looks like the best bet for a P-11C kit with enough surface detail to satisfy the P-11 aficionados would be the IBG 1/32 kit. Problem is the size, and it’s not a Spitfire or a Mustang, hahaha. I will probably attempt to add details to the Arma kit, perhaps a rivet set will be made for it, but I am not holding my breath on that. In 1/48 scale a 1/4” diameter rivet head is about .005” or about .13mm, wing skin approximately 2mm thick about 1/24 of a mm or .0416. So most 1/48 surface detail is probably overscale on most kits anyway.

My personal favourite kit in 1/48 for surface detail would be the Revell Ju-52, it is spectacular, right down to the end crimping of the corrugations!

Here’s a link to the IBG 1/32 P-11C for comparison, bearing in mind the scale is larger.

https://www.detailscaleview.com/2020/03/ibg-models-32-pzl-p11c-32001-review.html

 

Take care and stay safe 

Best regards 

Jeff