In The Wrong Hands GB. Close... but no cigar!

[TonyOD]

On 2/6/2021 at 2:31 PM, Black Knight said:

George Washington, the 1st President of the United States of America.

He was British, he was a British military officer.

 

British forebears but born in the very American state of Virginia. I believe he was a British subject but that doesn't quite make him British?

 

On 2/6/2021 at 2:31 PM, Black Knight said:

2. Nazi Germany had several Divisions made up of conscripts from occupied countries. From Danes to Romanians, from Norwegians to Iranians

 

That's an interesting one. There's a difference between foreign nationals fighting under duress following forcible conscription and willing combatants serving with German armed forces. Eligible if the former and backed up with historical evidence 😁.

[jackroadkill]

5 hours ago, TonyOD said:

That's an interesting one. There's a difference between foreign nationals fighting under duress following forcible conscription and willing combatants serving with German armed forces. Eligible if the former and backed up with historical evidence

 

How about this for something that we've not made a point of publicising?  British volunteers fighting for the Nazis in WWII.

 

 

[TonyOD]

18 hours ago, Black Knight said:

He was British in the same way as Gibraltarians are, the way Hong Kongese were/are.

 

Well it's an interesting interpretation, but I'm not sure the fact that Virginia (an American state, even if not yet a United one) being a British colony quite makes George Washington British, or that the people of Hong Kong historically would have been "British" either (Gibraltar's a funny one, what with the British passports, red phone boxes and all that). I'm pretty sure that when the British were running Ireland my forebears in Mayo and Kerry wouldn't have considered themselves British. Are you actually arguing a case for doing a model of George Washington, or is this a discussion for the sake of having a discussion?

 

16 hours ago, jackroadkill said:

How about this for something that we've not made a point of publicising?  British volunteers fighting for the Nazis in WWII.

 

 

Definitely not, they fought for the Nazis of their own free will. 

 

Have to be honest I feel we're getting a wee bit off-track, I mean when I suggested I imagined there might be a bit more to it than Spitfire with crosses on them, and I was right what with internments and so on (and thanks to everyone who's educated me in this regard) but aren't we stretching perceptions of eligibility until they squeak here?

 

Cheers 😁

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by TonyOD

[jackroadkill]

4 minutes ago, TonyOD said:

Have to be honest I feel we're getting a wee bit off-track here, I mean when I suggested I imagined there might be a bit more to it than Spitfire with crosses on them, and I was right what with internments and so on (and thanks to everyone who's educated me in this regard) but aren't we stretching perceptions of eligibility until they squeak here?

Ha, sorry Tony, I wasn't suggesting making a BFC entrant for the GB, just getting diverted by excitement!

[TonyOD]

Bit of armour for the GB poster girl today - Sherman Firefly borrowed on an indefinite basis by the Wehrmacht.

[badger]

Yep - I could find something to suit this in the stash.

 

Add me in please

 

Ben

[TonyOD]

13 hours ago, badger said:

Yep - I could find something to suit this in the stash.

 

Add me in please

 

 

Thank you, and welcome aboard!

[TonyOD]

The new poster girl for the GB is a Messerschmitt Bf 109 captured in North Africa and flown by 79th Fighter Group, USAAF.

 

We still have three to find  for the ticket to the bunfight, but there's plenty of time!

[exdraken]

I just finished a Panther tank in French colors... but would Iraqi plane in Iranian service count?

Su-24, Miage F1, Su-22, Su-25, pus some transports ar all operated by Iranian forces after they fled to refuge  there in 1991 Gulf war...

[TEMPESTMK5]

Good morning Tony

 Please add my name to the list in my satsh I have an Academy Storch kit that I would like to build as French Air Force operated aircraft ...

 

Cheers

Patrice

[alt-92]

Bump. 

I want this one. 

 

Sue me

 

[TonyOD]

On 4/9/2021 at 10:02 AM, TEMPESTMK5 said:

Please add my name to the list in my satsh I have an Academy Storch kit that I would like to build as French Air Force operated aircraft ...

 

Sorry Patrice this has been on the back burner for a bit. I'll add you to the list. We can't be far off 30 now.

 

On 3/29/2021 at 8:01 PM, exdraken said:

would Iraqi plane in Iranian service count?

 

Certainly if they were abandoned by the Iraqis and then captured and operated by the Iranians.

[exdraken]

33 minutes ago, TonyOD said:

 

 

Certainly if they were abandoned by the Iraqis and then captured and operated by the Iranians.

Not directly abandoned... more like delivered, but ok!

You could put me on the list of the interested

 

I also like the Spitfire battles over Egypt in this context....

 

 

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Hoping this one makes it, loads of great potential.

 

Just to add something slightly different to the pot again - one of my latest builds is a 109 at the point of capture by Soviet troops near Berlin in 1945. This is fictional, but I know there are lots of similar images in history books which would make for interesting vignettes.

 

 

 

[modelling minion]

Hi Tony, ( @TonyOD)

 

I believe you have forgotten to add Werner's ( @exdraken ) name from the list which would take your total to 29, seeing as that would leave you short of the required 30 by one name You can add me to the list.

I have quite a few options to choose from but topping the list are Russian aircraft used by Finland (an I-153 tops that list) or German aircraft supplied to Romania and then used against against them when Romania switched sides.

Edited June 19, 2021 by modelling minion

[TonyOD]

With apologies to @exdraken for the oversight, and thanks to @modelling minion for pointing it out an adding his name to the list, we're at 30!

 

We're going to the bunfight! 

[81-er]

Add me for this one please, I've been eyeing up a few sets of "aircraft in enemy hands" decals and this would be the excuse to buy some.

 

James

[TonyOD]

@81-er Thanks and welcome aboard James!

[TonyW]

Add me to the list please. I've had a long held fascination for the German aircraft on display in London after the war, this GB would be a gentle shove towards actually doing one or two.

 

Tony.

[TonyOD]

1 hour ago, TonyW said:

Add me to the list please.

 

You're in! Thanks!

[modelling minion]

I have a question for you @TonyOD, I fancy building a Hawker Hurricane in Romanian markings and wondered if that would qualify for the GB. Although they never used them against us they were used against out Russian allies during WWII, as were the Blenheims that we sold them. The same is true for both types (and a few others) in use by Finland and they are on my "to do" list too.

[Bertie McBoatface]

Turncoats and other cads? Just my cup of Tennessee sweet tea. please count me as interested.

[TonyOD]

On 7/5/2021 at 9:19 PM, modelling minion said:

I fancy building a Hawker Hurricane in Romanian markings and wondered if that would qualify for the GB. Although they never used them against us they were used against out Russian allies during WWII, as were the Blenheims that we sold them.

 

Sounds like a goer. The basic ethos is that the country that manufactured the machinery wasn't happy about it being where it is and would rather have it back, so I think it fits? I can't imagine that the British were happy to see kit sold in good faith used against an ally?

 

On 7/19/2021 at 12:28 PM, Bertie Psmith said:

Turncoats and other cads? Just my cup of Tennessee sweet tea. please count me as interested.

 

Thanks, I'll add you to the list!

[Bertie McBoatface]

I'm far from coming up with a definite plan for this GB. There are so many great stories that would fall into this category and I do love a good tale.

 

The Germans used a ton of captured Allied armour in both World Wars and of course, following Dunkirk British trucks, cars and so forth were repaired and incorporated into the Wehrmacht. Am I right in thinking that Rommel had a British truck based staff HQ in Africa?

 

In aircraft I'm considering the RAF Enemy Aircraft Flight which flew captured planes for training and testing purposes. And that thought brought me to the American aggressor squadrons some of which flew Russian aircraft acquired in various interesting ways.

 

In figures, I remember from Band of Brothers, a GI sharing a cigarette with a captured German soldier who turned out to be a German American who had chosen the 'wrong' side for his war. I wonder what would have happened to him.

 

Back to aeroplanes, I've heard a story of a B-17 being flown by the Luftwaffe, in American markings, in action against other B-17s. I think this one is a myth though. Didn't Churchill or Eisenhower have a Storch?

 

 

 

Here's one I made earlier...

 

 

It's a British MkIV tank, captured, repaired and resprayed by the German army for use against the British as a Beutepanzer (Booty Tank. Which term always makes me smile!). As it happened, the war ended and the tank was seized by one of the right wing Freikorps units and used in the streets of Leipzig against German communists instead. So that's a machine that's been in several wrong hands.

 

I think every turncoat comes with a fascinating back story and I'm looking forward to reading all of them in this GB.

 

[Incidentally, if you consider the background to my picture you see that it's a photograph I just took of this post, posted onto this post. It seems to fit the byzantine nature of these histories.]

[Johnson]

9 minutes ago, Bertie Psmith said:

Back to aeroplanes, I've heard a story of a B-17 being flown by the Luftwaffe, in American markings, in action against other B-17s. I think this one is a myth though.

I recall reading about a B-17 the Germans captured and flew. It’s mentioned in Roger Freeman’s book The Mighty Eighth. A B-17F, 360BS, 303BG, 41-24585. Used to develop fighter tactics. There’s a pic showing the markings underneath which I think was painted yellow.