19-may-44 144Sqn NE740 codes

[brewerjerry]

Hi

   Trying to figure out if 144Sqn beaufighter NE740  would have carried code 1-E or PL-E 

    on the 19 may 1944

 

it was based at davidstow moor, and as 404Sqn used the number 2, i now wondered about the correct code for NE740

    cheers

      jerry

[gingerbob]

It was definitely PL on a Hampden I just found a photo of, so it seems unlikely that it would have been changed from 'PL' to 'P1'.  Ah, rereading the question makes me interpret differently.  "Coastal, Support, and Special Squadrons..." says this about 404:

Quote

From its inception until mid 1943 the Squadron carried the code letters 'EE'.  When such letters were dropped in Coastal Command the Squadron used the number '2' until the Spring of 1944 when code letters were again used, initially 'EE', then this was changed to 'EO'.

 

For 144 Sqn the book says, "...these letters were used again from the summer of 1944..." So I guess the question is exactly when the traditional squadron letters were re-instituted.

Edited December 12, 2020 by gingerbob

[Super Aereo]

According to Flintham & Thomas's "Combat Codes", 144 and 404 Squadrons switched back to letter codes in May 1944. Before that, at Wick, the codes would have been 1 for 144 and 2 for 404, so it stands to reason that the codes were changed after their arrival at Davidstow Moor on 8-10 May 1944.

 

It is interesting to note that the codes during Overlord were carried on the invasion stripes rather than further forward on the fuselage as it happened with other squadrons.

 

If they had already been changed by 19 May is anybody's guess, without a photo or a document, but it is entirely possible if not even likely.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Super Aereo

[rossm]

On May 19th circumstantial evidence suggests 404 Squadron was still carrying the number 2.

 

The ORB Summary of Events for May 19th says "P.R. Officers from Coastal Command are here to write and take pictures of the RPs in action."

 

There are a lot of photos of 404 Beaufighters with RPs and the 2 code so probably taken that day or the next as there is another note about photography of RPs in action for 20th May.

 

Also on the Aviaeology decal sheet there is a photo of LZ451 wearing the codes 2-M with D-Day stripes.

 

So it's likely 144 Squadron carried 1 on 19th May - I don't know if @Terry @ Aviaeology has photographic evidence?

 

 

[brewerjerry]

Hi All

         Many thanks for the reply

 

  So seems i should be going for using the codes 1-E 

   and not as PL-E, as i originally intended, for my winter project a beaufighter bellylanded at harrowbeer

     cheers

      Jerry 

[gingerbob]

I had a look at 144 and 404 Squadron ORBs, and neither (that I could spot) mentioned changing the squadron codes from before moving in May to D-Day.  Nor did they mention what codes WERE being used.  (404 did mention the stripes.)  I did not follow on very much further, and at least one source (Aviaeology?) suggested that the numbers were not changed until later (July/Aug?).  I did note the air-to-air photograph session, and Ross' deduction is persuasive, though I didn't (in quick search) turn up a photograph that is specifically recorded as being taken then.

 

This morning I found this, which may be of interest (or more likely you already knew): 131 Squadron ORB 19 May (Spitfire VII, based at Harrowbeer):

Quote

At 19.35 hours the whole Squadron (12 aircraft) took off to act as Escort Cover to 12 anti-flak Beaufighters and 12 rocket-projectile Beaufighters....  There was intense light flak from the ships but it was directed against the Beaus and nothing of interest occurred to our formation which landed back at base at 21.43 having had to circle the airfield for about 10 minutes owing to a Beaufighter which had to make a forced landing with wheels up, having been hit by flak over the target.

 

[rossm]

The 19th May operation was Roadstead 108 and I think Roadstead 109 followed on 20th May. There were several Beaufighter and Spitfire Squadrons involved - I have the ORBs but no time to correlate just now. However I'm sure Jerry has them as well. I'm aiming to build an aircraft from each squadron involved - so far two Spitfires (VII and IX) done, search RFI for Harrowbeer and Predannack to see them.

 

@brewerjerry What camo do you plan? 404 still had some a/c in the old EDSG/DSG/Sky scheme that show up in those RP photos. It's an undocumented (as far as I can see) variation on the original Coastal Special Duties EDSG/DSG/White and was picked up by @Terry @ Aviaeology and mentioned in my thread that I see you commented on. Sadly the photos were linked to the 404 Squadron site so have disappeared. I've never seen much on 144 from that period.

 

Some of the photos can be found with the links here

 

[gingerbob]

A bit of a tangent, but why the interest in this particular op?  Just curious, mind!  (That's for both of you.)

Edited December 13, 2020 by gingerbob

[rossm]

1 hour ago, gingerbob said:

A bit of a tangent, but why the interest in this particular op?  Just curious, mind!  (That's for both of you.)

I used to live very near to Harrowbeer and walked across the old airfield many times on my way to the pub. A long time ago I decided to start a project modelling at least one aircraft from every RAF base in Devon and Cornwall and Davidstow was one that took some pinning down as the Beaufighter strike wing wasn't there for long and it coincided with a change in codes and camouflage. When I spotted that 131 Squadron (Spitfire VII from Harrowbeer) took part in ops with 144/404 (Beaufighters from Davidstow) and 1/165 (Spitfire IXs from Predannack) it sort of took off. I think 235 Squadron Beaufighters (Portreath) were also involved in one of the two ops, I must check.

 

I'm easily diverted into researching the background to models and I've spotted a file reference in the National Archives for Roadstead ops, it would be good to see if there are any reports on 108 and/or 109 but it's a long way to go, by the time I got there it would be time to get the train home!

 

Check out my web page http://hrmtech.com/SIG/devcor.asp and the linked pages on airfields to see how far the obsession has got!

 

PS and off topic but If ayone can pin down a code/serial tie up for one of the 264 Squadron Mosquito detachment at Trebelzue I'd be delighted. I've started trawling the ORB for clues but there's nothing easy like entries giving both!

 

Jerry is the author of the Airfield Focus book on Harrowbeer so I guess he has some sort of link to it.

[brewerjerry]

Hi

   I mainly grew up in plymouth, although  i moved around quite a bit 

    ( dad was in the raf postwar ) 

   i got told lots of raf stories and about harrowbeer when i was young

  so i started researching harrowbeer and a few other things since about 1970

  the beaufighter will hopefully be a winter project for me when the snow arrives 

 

 thanks all again for the input 

 

   cheers

      jerry 

[dogsbody]

404 Squadron photos can be seen here:  https://web.archive.org/web/20160323191529/http://404squadron.com/gallery1.html

 

 

 

 

Chris

[rossm]

Just to muddy the waters regarding the colour scheme of 144 Squadron Beaufighters in late '43 to early '44 - have you seen the 'Colour Conundrum' article by Paul Lucas in Scale Aircraft Modelling October 2017?

 

I'd summarise it here but it's incomprehensible at a quick scan and I'm not sure even a thorough reading would help although there's lots of detail of documents as well as speculation. Let me know if you'd like a scan.

[brewerjerry]

On 12/18/2020 at 3:44 AM, rossm said:

Just to muddy the waters regarding the colour scheme of 144 Squadron Beaufighters in late '43 to early '44 - have you seen the 'Colour Conundrum' article by Paul Lucas in Scale Aircraft Modelling October 2017?

 

I'd summarise it here but it's incomprehensible at a quick scan and I'm not sure even a thorough reading would help although there's lots of detail of documents as well as speculation. Let me know if you'd like a scan.

Hi Ross

              if you send a scan it would be great

    pm'd my e mail address 

      cheers J