Spitfire & Seafire Camouflage Schemes

[fishplanebeer]

I've almost completed my first model in over 25 years, the SH Kittyhawk 1a (just need to add the final pre-painted bits and pieces and open canopy) and my next project will be either a Spitfire (Eduard VIII) or Seafire (Sword IIc) so looking for some help please.

 

I have raised this question in the Modelling Tips section previously but with limited response so hopefully this may have more joy as the main area I struggled with after all these years was the application of the camouflage scheme. This took for ever to do using thin rolled pieces of blu tak to mark out the scheme and then filling in the areas not to be sprayed using a myriad pieces of masking tape! It worked quite well but at this rate I'll be lucky to make 2-3 kits a year!

 

I know that there are masking scheme products/masks available from a variety of manufacturers but having never used them I'm wondering if they would be a simpler and faster method for applying either the 'a' or 'b' scheme to my Spitfire/Seafire  or are they also fraught with difficulties?

 

Regards

Colin.

 

 

[Giorgio N]

In my experience a good set of masks is a great help in getting a good camo scheme. There are of course a few things to consider..

Masks may lift the paint if this does not stick well enough or if the adhesive of the mask is too strong. Should not happen with good quality masks and if the paint is applied properly but the risk is higher than with blu-tak. 

Masks generally reproduce a generic pattern that may or not be exactly the one used by your subject. With RAF fighters the differences will generally be small but existed. How important this is, it's up to you. Personally I cut masks myself, I have a generic pattern and I tweak it to fit my subject if I have a picture.. if not, I just use the generic one.

Of course you can modify an existing mask by cutting pieces and adding others with tape or blu-tak.

A similar problem is that masks are generally made for a specific kit, if you have a different kit that mask set may work or not depending on how different the two kits are... and there are kits of the same aircraft that differ much more than we could expect. So better check if the masks you find arr sized for the kit you have

 

In general it is important that the masks are flexible enough to wrap around the fuselage and have the right adhesion to stay in place while not lifting the paint. Not using commercial ones I can't say which brand is best but I'm sure others will share their experience 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Giorgio N

[Graham Boak]

Alternatively, go back to brush painting for this kind of camouflage? 

[Fifer54]

I just freehand it, but then I use a hairy stick for painting!

I'll have to get used to masking though, I'm hoping that next year, I'll get to grips with the airbrush and compressor I've owned for about 5 years . . .

 

I do mask canopies, I don't have the skill to freehand those, hands aren't steady enough!

You can get the yellow Tamiya masking tape material (it's called Kabuki tape) as sheets of masking, Tamiya and a firm called Decalcas make them- big squares of masking!

Maketar supplies paint masks in this material, and several firms make masks in a vinyl foil. These commercial masks tend to be tailored, as Giorgio said, to specific kits.

[Chuck1945]

Mixed thoughts. I tried an Eduard camouflage mask on a 1/72 and was frustrated. The masking sections were large enough that it was difficult to get one part in the exact position without at least part of it touching and sticking prematurely. I gave up and went back to blu-tak. If you are careful spraying, I haven’t had any need to fill in the open spaces between the ‘worms’. Subsequently I discovered that touching a wet finger tip on the sticky side of Eduard canopy masks just before application allows a little adjustment during the process. Don’t know if this works larger masks.

[fishplanebeer]

Many thanks for the advice which is really helpful.

 

I think I'll buy one of the proprietary masks and see how well, or otherwise, they work as although I'm quite OK using my airbrush after all these years I don't think my skills are quite up to speed as yet to allow me to try and spray between the blu tak worms without some degree of overspray resulting. I can't blame the airbrush as it's a newly acquired Iwata Eclipse HP-CS which is easy to handle and pretty robust compared with my old Testor's Aztec which refused to work anymore, albeit it had spent 20 odd years in the garage gathering dust.

 

The tip about the Eduard canopy masks is also really useful as I did find that precisely locating the small canopy masking pieces was quite a trial as well, just wish I was 20 years younger with better eyesight and steadier hands!

 

Regards

Colin.

[GRK]

7 minutes ago, fishplanebeer said:

blu tak worms without some degree of overspray resulting.

I use masking putty for the worms but then also mask around the worms to catch the inevitable overspray. It’s a bit faffy but saves time in the end 

[alt-92]

Glasswork masks make life way easier (in general - unless you use those Montex vinyl canopy sets). So kabuki/Tamiya tape preferred

As far as camo goes, I do use AML vinyl mask sets for Spits when airbrushing when the patterns match - it's just less messy as tack worms and more constant.
Of course, they don't always fit perfectly around tight curves, or don't suit the small deviations that occur, but that's when I use them as template for manual cutting tape.
And the masks will be good for 4-5 models (or more, depending on the tackiness of the glue).

[FinnAndersen]

For Spitfires, I have designed a pattern for my Silhuette cutte, which cuts a set of masks on Tamiya paper. It's only to be recommended if you intend to make a multitude of the same model.

 

Before that, I cut masks out of Frisket sheet, but gave up as it pulled too much paint off when removing. Pity, as the Frisket was transparent, allowing the proposed mask to be laid over the model to check for fit.

 

Have tried some commercial ones, but not really been satisfied.

 

My conclusion is that the typical RAF camouflage is not a trivial task and need to be taken dead seriously. You should NOT try to cut corners here; you are so near completion and have invested so much time in the model at this point that a sloppy job will ruin all the previous work. Do whatever practise you can dream of and only commit yourself and the model when you know precisely what you should do. 

 

It seems that the blue-tac approach may be the quick and easy way, so give it a go.

 

/Finn

[fishplanebeer]

What is the issue with the Montex canopy masks as I have some of them along with others from Peewit, Pmask and Eduard for the kits I have in my mini stash?

 

I just buy the ones that are recommended for each kit and Montex are the only ones who currently do a mask for a Sword Spitfire IX (Seafire II/III) but I'm now worried that it will not be that satisfactory when I do my Seafire.

 

Sadly but not surprisingly Eduard don't seem to do any masks for Sword, KP and AZ kits.

[alt-92]

It's just that their vinyl masks are a bit less than optimal when dealing with tight curves (especially in 1/72).

They work fine for larger or flatter surfaces though, and it's mostly a matter of preference. 
 

[Ed Russell]

This should probably be in the Techniques section but just a warning about Blu Tack. I have used this Blu Tack and paper technique for years without problems but just this week masked and sprayed two Spitfires with poor results. The Blu Tack seems to be strongly adhered to the surface and turns into mush when I try to remove it.

I have tried citrus-based stain remover - works really well but removes paint and primer too - and freezing - works sort of okay but will take well into 2021 to do the job. Any ideas?

I suspect it's the age of the packet of Blu Tack that has caused this. I used a probably decades-old packet for this. As I say, have not had this problem before with genuine Blu Tack or generic equivalents which often do not stick as well as real Blu Tack.

 

[Peter Roberts]

Ed, I have had similar problems with blu tak and found using another ‘blob’ of blu tak pressed continually onto the residual blu tank will lift it, usually bit by bit, but eventually all.

 

HTH
 

Edited for bl**dy auto correct! Tak, not tank auto correct! 🙃

Edited December 6, 2020 by Peter Roberts

[alt-92]

1 hour ago, Ed Russell said:

Any ideas?

There is a slight oily residue left with fresh BT.

One of the reasons I use it sparingly is that it tends to pick up paint residue and overspray - and I suspect that alters the chemical balance of the stuff to make it more grainy and less easy to clean off. 

 

Quote

Edited for bl**dy auto correct! Tak, not tank auto correct! 🙃

autocorrupt strokes again 

[Giorgio N]

1 hour ago, Ed Russell said:

This should probably be in the Techniques section but just a warning about Blu Tack. I have used this Blu Tack and paper technique for years without problems but just this week masked and sprayed two Spitfires with poor results. The Blu Tack seems to be strongly adhered to the surface and turns into mush when I try to remove it.

I have tried citrus-based stain remover - works really well but removes paint and primer too - and freezing - works sort of okay but will take well into 2021 to do the job. Any ideas?

I suspect it's the age of the packet of Blu Tack that has caused this. I used a probably decades-old packet for this. As I say, have not had this problem before with genuine Blu Tack or generic equivalents which often do not stick as well as real Blu Tack.

 

 

 

You may try with WD40. I use this to remove traces of adhesive tape, I know that blu-tak is very different stuff but maybe works the same? WD40 does not damage the paint even on Vallejo and similar acrylics

[fishplanebeer]

I agree that this topic should probably be elsewhere but at the outset I confirmed that I originally posted in the Modelling Tips area but got very little response so hoped, as this is specific to WW2 camo application, that here would be a better place to garner tips and accumulated wisdom.

 

My only other thought is that there is elastic masking putty out there, made by AK and Mig, which may be an alternative although at £16-ish for the Mig product it is rather pricey and may be no better than blu tak anyway. The ad's show it working really well but there again it's bound to so has anyone actually used this stuff I wonder?

 

Regards

Colin.

[Chuck1945]

4 minutes ago, fishplanebeer said:

I agree that this topic should probably be elsewhere but at the outset I confirmed that I originally posted in the Modelling Tips area but got very little response so hoped, as this is specific to WW2 camo application, that here would be a better place to garner tips and accumulated wisdom.

 

My only other thought is that there is elastic masking putty out there, made by AK and Mig, which may be an alternative although at £16-ish for the Mig product it is rather pricey and may be no better than blu tak anyway. The ad's show it working really well but there again it's bound to so has anyone actually used this stuff I wonder?

 

Regards

Colin.

 I have some and it works rather well for what it does. Perhaps the two major drawbacks are cost and it’s ability to return to its original shape - meaning it shouldn’t be put on a model tonight that will not be painted until morning. Bends and shapes you have molded into your pattern will slowly reshape into a blob. It isn’t a quick process but even waiting 30-45 minutes you can see the shape shifting. On the plus side I can make a more intricate pattern with it than I can easily do with blu-tak and it appears to absorb paint overspray after sitting for couple of hours.  In the last 2-3 years I’ve done 3-4 RAF type schemes using this, a couple more using blu-tak, and one attempting to use 1.5” painters tape to make masks. This last technique was the least satisfactory.

[Seawinder]

I cut new masks for each model. I use Tamiya yellow tape. I start by laying one or more connected pieces of tape (as necessary) on the model to completely cover what will be the demarcation. Then I freehand the demarcation line on the tape, remove it from the model, lay it on a glass cutting sheet, and cut along the line with an X-acto knife. Then I take some thread and attach it to the tape parallel and 2-3mm from the edge. This will raise the edge of the tape slightly for a very slightly softer paint edge. Finally, I lay the mask back on the model and airbrush. I make sure to keep the airbrush perpendicular to the model surface to minimize creep under the raised mask.

 

I think the finished effect is similar to that achieved using Blu Tack, which I haven't ever tried, but probably will sometime. I do like being able to draw and cut the line.

[J Sherratt]

I've used AML pre cut vinyl masks (bought from Hannants) for several Spitfire and Hurricane kits and been very pleased with them.

 

No problems with paint lifting and if you are careful, you can use them several times too. 

 

John

[Giorgio N]

13 hours ago, FinnAndersen said:

For Spitfires, I have designed a pattern for my Silhuette cutte, which cuts a set of masks on Tamiya paper. It's only to be recommended if you intend to make a multitude of the same model.

 

Before that, I cut masks out of Frisket sheet, but gave up as it pulled too much paint off when removing. Pity, as the Frisket was transparent, allowing the proposed mask to be laid over the model to check for fit.

 

Have tried some commercial ones, but not really been satisfied.

 

My conclusion is that the typical RAF camouflage is not a trivial task and need to be taken dead seriously. You should NOT try to cut corners here; you are so near completion and have invested so much time in the model at this point that a sloppy job will ruin all the previous work. Do whatever practise you can dream of and only commit yourself and the model when you know precisely what you should do. 

 

It seems that the blue-tac approach may be the quick and easy way, so give it a go.

 

/Finn

 

Have you tried the Oracal products ? I use their Oracal 810 for many masks and it's translucent enough to allow seeing all the details on the model (panel lines and so on) and at the same time the adhesive is not too strong to lift paint. It is not as flexible as Tamiya paper of course, but is flexible enough to work on a 1/72 Spitfire fuselage. While I also use paper masking material, that for some uses is still IMHO the best solution, I'm now using this product more and more for my home-made masks. It's also quite cheap here, at around € 1 per A4 sheet, that is never a bad thing...

[FinnAndersen]

1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

 

Have you tried the Oracal products ? I use their Oracal 810 for many masks and it's translucent enough to allow seeing all the details on the model (panel lines and so on) and at the same time the adhesive is not too strong to lift paint. It is not as flexible as Tamiya paper of course, but is flexible enough to work on a 1/72 Spitfire fuselage. While I also use paper masking material, that for some uses is still IMHO the best solution, I'm now using this product more and more for my home-made masks. It's also quite cheap here, at around € 1 per A4 sheet, that is never a bad thing...

No, but I'm very interested, as the Silhuette way is not cost and time effective for single models, of which I have a lot.

 

 

[Tail-Dragon]

Here's an alternative - First, paint the base color, then, download the camo scheme and print out to size. cut out the pattern, hold in place with tape over holes cut in the pattern and spray. Touch up as required, and your done.  With the pattern stored on you computer, it's always available when needed.

 

 

 

This pattern was originally available here from a BritModeler member - Vanroon.  Many thanks to him!

 

 

Here's another one to try ...

 

 

Colin

Edited December 7, 2020 by Tail-Dragon
more details

[FinnAndersen]

33 minutes ago, Tail-Dragon said:

... The pattern was originally available here from a BritModeler member - Vanroon.  Many thanks to him!

Colin

I'll definitely give it a go.

 

I have two Typhoon's that will have the honour. I will try to do my own pattern (have done that quite a number of times, so why bother someone else) and maybe give the masks a few more holes, if this is deemed necessary.

 

/Finn

[Chuck1945]

Colin, many thanks for the reminder about those pdf mask patterns. I had completely forgotten about those and fortunately was able to find them on my hard drive. I’m working on an early Spitfire I pictured in the Wing Leader book so will try them when at the camouflage painting stage. Years ago I had read an article about using them as a pattern to cut your own from newsprint, the idea being newsprint is quite thin and bendable and if dampened, will stick to a surface so wet the pieces and stick them on the model, no tape required. As I recall in my experiment, the paper didn’t adhere all that well so I only tried it once.

[Grey Beema]

I use the same technique as Colin, for my Seafires (below) I used the ‘A’ scheme diagram printed to size attached to the model with WhiteTac sausages - any gaps filled in with WhiteTac.  Bit of a touch up round the edges after as I hand spray the first colour in the appropriate pattern..

 

I was trying to make sure both Seafires had a matching basic pattern..

 

 

Hope that helps..