Bristol Belvedere HC1 - Airfix 1/72

[Fritag]

Good skills Ced.

 

1 hour ago, perdu said:

Only warm the plastic for a few seconds, I watch for the deforming signs of rippling a bit, not the complete softened 'come and get me' of the ready to cook film.

We only need warmed up a little

 

I’m with Bill on this Ced.  He knows a thing or two does Bill - but don’t tell him I said so 

 

I try to heat the PETg as far from from the heating element as commensurate with it actually heating up! And then try to heat it to the minimum necessary.  I think a few failures on the way to success are simply inevitable.  For a klutz like me anyways 

 

 

 

 

 

[hendie]

Ced, PETG is hygroscopic, which means it will actively absorb moisture from the air. 

You could try drying it in the oven first, maybe an hour or two around 60 - 80C?

 

[keefr22]

Hmmmm. 7 days and 5 pages late. Must be a personal best! Dunno how I missed the start Ced and I've only managed to get to the end of page 2 & my eyes are closing (nothing to do with your modelling!!) so I'll play catch up in the morning!

 

Keith

[CedB]

16 hours ago, perdu said:

Listen very carefully, I shall say this only...   ' til you get the method

 

PETg

 

I only use the thinner stuff anyway and remember you need to fit it into a specific place on the model.

 

Thick might not be your friend.

 

Only warm the plastic for a few seconds, I watch for the deforming signs of rippling a bit, not the complete softened 'come and get me' of the ready to cook film.

We only need warmed up a little

 

Then a slight pause

 

Then let technology and art rip

 

As some guy in that very useful link says it is an artform.

 

Practice makes    canopies.

Warm up, pause, SLAM - got it, thanks Bill  

Art? I don't know much about art but I know what I like…

Clear canopies!

 

15 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

Be careful what you do in the bath?

 

I'll have my fingers crossed for you. 

 Thanks Pete

 

15 hours ago, giemme said:

Just adding my  to the  valuable advice you've already received: I use a thinner plastic, 0.3 or 0.4, I don't have it at hand now. I try to heat it up very gently, to the point when it starts  going wavy. But on top of that, the stuff I use is very clear in its flat state; a bath in Aqua Gloss once vacformed is also recommended, to sort all the minor blemishes. HTH

 

Ciao 

Thanks Giorgio

Wavy, gentle, SLAM! Got it.

 

14 hours ago, Tomoshenko said:

They're looking much better Ced.

 

That said, given that my experience of vac-forming is extremely limited, I have taken to sitting behind Bill in the classroom, peeking over his shoulder and copying everything he writes. So do everything Bill says... except the bit about putting your life savings on that 200/1 outsider at Newmarket.

Thanks Tomo - me too, learn from the Masters I say

 

14 hours ago, Fritag said:

Good skills Ced.

 

 

I’m with Bill on this Ced.  He knows a thing or two does Bill - but don’t tell him I said so 

 

I try to heat the PETg as far from from the heating element as commensurate with it actually heating up! And then try to heat it to the minimum necessary.  I think a few failures on the way to success are simply inevitable.  For a klutz like me anyways 

 

Thanks Steve, appreciated!

Far away, minimum heat, SLAM! Got it.

 

12 hours ago, hendie said:

Ced, PETG is hygroscopic, which means it will actively absorb moisture from the air. 

You could try drying it in the oven first, maybe an hour or two around 60 - 80C?

 

Thanks hendie - good to know.

IF I ever use the thicker 0.7mm stuff I think I'll have to do that  

 

11 hours ago, keefr22 said:

Hmmmm. 7 days and 5 pages late. Must be a personal best! Dunno how I missed the start Ced and I've only managed to get to the end of page 2 & my eyes are closing (nothing to do with your modelling!!) so I'll play catch up in the morning!

 

Keith

Hi Keith - nice to see you.

Have a nap, always works for me… oh, wait, late night eh? Sleep well matey  

 

 

Good morning this morning, eventually.

First an apology to the PETg suppliers. There ARE two protective sheets, but one is clear:

 

 

I noticed that when it peeled off of one of the failed pulls:

 

 

The one back left I think, it certainly looks shinier.

Both of those were me badly estimating what' warm' means but I got it right in the end.

 

The Plasticine didn't work by the way. It melted:

 

 

… so, to overcome the 'lip grip' I cut the base into quarters with my newly inherited snips, cut around the top of the lip and pulled the sections away:

 

 

Eventually, with some very gentle prising over the windows, it was off.

I am a happy bunny:

 

 

 

 

Safely stored away - it's the one with the tape on:

 

 

 

Now, next nasty, the grills:

 

 

Seven at the back but how many at the front?

Nine? That's good because I can start in the middle.

Hard to find a good reference shot.

[perdu]

Nice bubble Ced.

 

 

 

[giemme]

28 minutes ago, perdu said:

Nice bubble Ced.

 

 

 

Agreed Don't forget the Aqua Gloss bath

 

Ciao 

[hendie]

and the polish 

[Pete in Lincs]

🎵 We're forever blowing bubbles....etc Well, I'm not. I've never tried this business. But it looks like @CedB has cracked it. Yay!

[CedB]

Thanks Bill, Giorgio, hendie and Pete  

I think I've got the hang of it now. Of course I'll have forgotten it all next time I need to vac form  

The canopy will be cleaned, polished and dipped once I've cut it to fit, later.

 

This afternoon I started the grills.

But wait, what's that big hole in front of the lump on the top of the fuselage?

My reference shots and Bill's build show that there's a… lump just inside.

Rats, I wished I'd noticed that before close up.

Nothing for it but to splodge some filler in there and shape the inside with the end of a suitably sized drill bit:

 

 

First lump of filler in. You'll see more in later pics. Maybe.

 

Grill one done:

 

 

You can see, just in front of the blade, that I've cut a few more vanes.

All I need now is the patience, and steady hands, to glue them in.

 

What about this though?

 

 

I did think about drilling the windows and using clear stuff to fill. Maybe.

BUT it should be level in the middle with no ejector mark eh?

With no massive gaps.

Later.

[Tomoshenko]

Ced if it's any help, there is a piccie on Airliners.net:

 

https://www.airliners.net/photo/UK-Air-Force/Bristol-192-Belvedere-HC1/1963271

 

 

 

 

[CedB]

Thanks Tomo

I think that's one of the pics Bill posted earlier but a helpful reminder. It looks like two separate window surrounds eh?

 

After sanding the bottom (titter) this is better:

 

 

…but I think I need to 'separate' the surrounds a bit more. Hmmm.

 

I did manage to fill 'the hole' and get another couple of vanes in:

 

 

All I need to do now (a ha ha ha) is fill in the gaps with four more.

Gulp.

 

Lousy weather here today so I got the S.A.D. lamp out:

 

 

Crikey, it's bright.

I've had it for some years but keep forgetting to use it. According to the Lumie people, 20 minutes 'light in your eyes' "is proven to improve energy, put you in a better mood and make you feel more awake."

We shall see!

[perdu]

Those not windows underfoot Ced they are lamps, probably landing, early Belvedere for the use of.

Not seen on general service machines. The inlet on the back of the fuselage upper works just in front of the tail fin pylon thingy is an oil cooler which sits back in the dark of the tunnel slightly. I think you could just put something down the hole just to block it up. At the front is an impeller fan.

 

If I was as clever as our friend from the helo-museum I could send you lots of AP pictures to confuse yourself with what's going on in there do you want me to try to work it all out?

 

Yours is looking fine, makes me wonder...

 

Get another?

For silver and white?

 

Nah I have you and Tom busy making the rest of a tiny Belvedere fleet after all.

 

 

 

[The Spadgent]

Mighty progress there dear boy! 🏋️‍♀️
Everyone seems to know so much about moulding plastic, I’m feeling rather left out. Your work on the subject is exemplary. 🧐 Why on earth they decided to glue it up the middle is beyond me. 😱

Those vanes too. Very neat. 🤗 As for the S.A.D lamp. I bought Gemma one about ten years ago as she hates the dark mornings. She was a grumpy sausage in those days. This made her loads better in the mornings.  I can highly recommend. 🌞 Happy wife and all that. 😉

 

Please sir can we have some more. 😀

 

Johnny 

[CedB]

10 hours ago, perdu said:

Those not windows underfoot Ced they are lamps, probably landing, early Belvedere for the use of.

Ah, thanks Bill

 

Now separated with a scriber and microsaw:

 

 

 

Chiselled and filled:

 

 

 

Needs a clean up but better?

 

Quote

Not seen on general service machines. The inlet on the back of the fuselage upper works just in front of the tail fin pylon thingy is an oil cooler which sits back in the dark of the tunnel slightly. I think you could just put something down the hole just to block it up. At the front is an impeller fan.

 

If I was as clever as our friend from the helo-museum I could send you lots of AP pictures to confuse yourself with what's going on in there do you want me to try to work it all out?

Hole now blocked and rear vanes fitted:

 

 

Quote

Yours is looking fine, makes me wonder...

 

Get another?

For silver and white?

 

Nah I have you and Tom busy making the rest of a tiny Belvedere fleet after all.

Well Bill we shall see - hopefully the end result might tempt you  

 

1 hour ago, The Spadgent said:

Mighty progress there dear boy! 🏋️‍♀️
Everyone seems to know so much about moulding plastic, I’m feeling rather left out. Your work on the subject is exemplary. 🧐 Why on earth they decided to glue it up the middle is beyond me. 😱

Those vanes too. Very neat. 🤗 As for the S.A.D lamp. I bought Gemma one about ten years ago as she hates the dark mornings. She was a grumpy sausage in those days. This made her loads better in the mornings.  I can highly recommend. 🌞 Happy wife and all that. 😉

 

Please sir can we have some more. 😀

 

Johnny 

Thanks Johnny, very kind 

I would give moulding a try - good fun and you get to play with chemicals and Lego!

 

Pleased to hear that the SAD lamps work.

 

Some more? Well, I fitted one in the front:

 

 

But then decided there are ten vanes.

10mm gap to fill.

That's NOT one every 1mm is it.

I hated those school questions like 'how many posts to you need to make a 10' fence with the posts 1' apart?'

Still can't do it  

[stevehnz]

You'll need nine vanes to fill a 10mm gap at 1mm spacings, the sides of the gap count as the outside ones. The fence answer is 11, 'cause that does need to include the outside ones. 

Nice progress Ced.

Steve.

[giemme]

Nice progress  Ced

 

Definitely too early in the morning for me to think of highly advanced maths ....

 

Ciao 

[Hamden]

 

Coming together now Ced. Superb result with the nose glazing

 

  Stay safe        Roger

[CedB]

8 hours ago, stevehnz said:

You'll need nine vanes to fill a 10mm gap at 1mm spacings, the sides of the gap count as the outside ones. The fence answer is 11, 'cause that does need to include the outside ones. 

Nice progress Ced.

Steve.

Thanks Steve - great stuff!  

I need 10 'posts' though in the gap…

Still too hard for me - I get a brain freeze about it - so I resorted to (software) tools, as usual. See below

 

2 hours ago, giemme said:

Nice progress  Ced

 

Definitely too early in the morning for me to think of highly advanced maths ....

 

Ciao 

Always too early for me Giorgio  

 

33 minutes ago, Hamden said:

 

Coming together now Ced. Superb result with the nose glazing

 

  Stay safe        Roger

Thanks Roger  

 

 

So doing it 'by eye' won't work. Although I can roughly gauge a gap, I can't spread 10 vanes at the same time and I'm worried I'll get to the edges and think 'Rats, the last ones don't fit.

How about 'physical modelling':

 

 

That doesn't work either.

These things are tiny.

A sense of perspective:

 

 

See?

Bottom middle.

There may be 10 vanes there still, although I may have brushed / sneezed / got one stuck on my hand, again.

 

Silhouette Studio I can cope with:

 

 

Right hole, vanes correct 0.2mm thickness. Gap measured at 0.6mm.

Now I have the numbers, how do I implement them (as the mathematician said to the actress. Never)

 

Aha!

 

 

First one stuck in the middle:

 

 

Now I just need to wait for steady hands.

I may be some time…

 

I've also been thinking about masking the nose.

Giorgio will be pleased to see this:

 

[stevehnz]

You're better man than I Ced, I'd be happy with 9 & anyone caught stooping to count them might get a visit from Maxwell's Silver Hammer, figureatively of course.

Steve.

[perdu]

I used fine wire, straightened for my vanes

 

And this shows the coupled gearbox oil cooler intake.

 

Complex innit.

 

 

Luckily because the Productiovedere has an oil cooler in front of the front rotor gearbox I only needed two each side, dodged a speeding bullet there.

 

 

Looking fab Ced 👍

[giemme]

19 minutes ago, CedB said:

Giorgio will be pleased to see this:

 

 Cool!

 

Ciao

[Marklo]

10 hours ago, CedB said:

Everyone seems to know so much about moulding plastic, I’m feeling rather left out

 

12 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Everyone seems to know so much about moulding plastic, I’m feeling rather left out.

Ah but it all depends on needs. I only mold if I have to as although it can be very satisfying it can also be extremely frustrating.

[CedB]

1 hour ago, stevehnz said:

You're better man than I Ced, I'd be happy with 9 & anyone caught stooping to count them might get a visit from Maxwell's Silver Hammer, figureatively of course.

Steve.

Thanks Steve  

Hammer at the ready…

Thanks for your maths help  

 

1 hour ago, perdu said:

I used fine wire, straightened for my vanes

 

And this shows the coupled gearbox oil cooler intake.

 

Complex innit.

 

 

Luckily because the Productiovedere has an oil cooler in front of the front rotor gearbox I only needed two each side, dodged a speeding bullet there.

 

 

Looking fab Ced 👍

Thanks Bill

I've been using your build as a reference, of course, with the bar lowered so that I can reach it.

I saw the wire but a ) I don't have any like that and b ) I'm happier with plastic and c ) I thought the wire would be even fiddlier!

 

1 hour ago, giemme said:

 Cool!

 

Ciao

You're welcome  

 

55 minutes ago, Marklo said:

 

Ah but it all depends on needs. I only mold if I have to as although it can be very satisfying it can also be extremely frustrating.

True Mark, true.

I had a period of molding pilots and may need another session - sometimes it's the only way.

You're right though - pulling a nasty result from the mould is as frustrating as pulling a nice one is rewarding (fnaar!)

 

 

'tis done:

 

 

But wait, what's this:

 

 

Two spare vanes?

After all that measuring what could possibly have gone wrong?

Plans, that's what.

Best laid and all that.

Punch in the mouth too (Mike Tyson quote)

 

So, the answer? Steve has it:

 

 

You're not counting, are you?

 

Desperate for something simple for relaxation I looked at the instructions.

Tailplane next.

This tab isn't going to fit is it?

 

 

Slice the slot and dry fit.

Up a bit.

Back a bit.

The Lego was brought out to form a jig:

 

 

… but I don't have enough hands, so it was time to 'trust the Airfix struts':

 

 

Look OK?

I still have the hammer…

 

Of course I could have left those off to make painting easier, but where's the fun in that?

[Spookytooth]

So many vanes Ced, sounds like Carly Simon`s version.

 

Nice work on bashing this kit into submission.

 

Simon.

[hendie]

Lovely job on those vanes Ced.