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1/32 Brit Phantom FG.1 XV571 conversion from Tamiya and Wild Hare set


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My apologies if this has already been covered by other posters here. I haven't read through every page of this thread. 

 

From what I've read, the Hong Kong British Phantom has run in to a major set-back in the last two years. The fella who was producing the CAD work had to withdraw from the project for personal reasons. I believe he had been working on it for 3-4 years. For undisclosed reasons, HK Models was then unable to make any use of his work and have had to start the whole thing over again. 

 

The short version seems to be that HK will bring out a British Rhino, but it might not be for several years more. I can understand that this is not much consolation to anyone who eagerly awaiting the new model. It should be released but, when I just don't know.

 

Chris.     

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22 minutes ago, spruecutter96 said:

 

 

From what I've read, the Hong Kong British Phantom has run in to a major set-back in the last two years. The fella who was producing the CAD work had to withdraw from the project for personal reasons. I believe he had been working on it for 3-4 years. For undisclosed reasons, HK Models was then unable to make any use of his work and have had to start the whole thing over again. 

 

The short version seems to be that HK will bring out a British Rhino, but it might not be for several years more. I can understand that this is not much consolation to anyone who eagerly awaiting the new model. It should be released but, when I just don't know.

 

Chris.     


That’s what I had heard too. I’m thinking that possibly the HK model is more of a possibly maybe rather than a certainty. If that’s the top and bottom of it I am wondering if there isn’t a market for an admittedly expensive but limited run quality conversion. I don’t mean to detract or depart from the core of this topic but given the expertise seen here by Anthony and indeed others coupled with the perceived demand from larger scale hobby modellers you would have thought it marketable to enough of us desperate for a UK phantom 

 

Meantime I drop in here and drool at Anthony’s work and wish I’d half his skill set. :worthy:

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43 minutes ago, spruecutter96 said:

My apologies if this has already been covered by other posters here. I haven't read through every page of this thread. 

 

From what I've read, the Hong Kong British Phantom has run in to a major set-back in the last two years. The fella who was producing the CAD work had to withdraw from the project for personal reasons. I believe he had been working on it for 3-4 years. For undisclosed reasons, HK Models was then unable to make any use of his work and have had to start the whole thing over again. 

 

The short version seems to be that HK will bring out a British Rhino, but it might not be for several years more. I can understand that this is not much consolation to anyone who eagerly awaiting the new model. It should be released but, when I just don't know.

 

Chris.     

There's always the @Icelandic Fine Art version 😌

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14 hours ago, JohnT said:

if there isn’t a market for an admittedly expensive but limited run quality conversion

Legend has it that the Wild Hare conversion set has sold for nearly £1,000, on the rare occasions it has appeared on E-Bay. My mind is genuinely boggled by that...

 

Chris. 

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Hello Anthony,

 

by heart I would say that you are correct about the serials: both FG.1s and FGR.2s were equipped with flight controls in the front office only (XV...) and with dual controls (XT...). There were some exceptions to this rule, but I can't remember the details. I think that there is a listing in FG.1 Pilot's Notes about the control arrangements. I just need to find the manual... Poor Navs who had to operate the radar in its stowed position...

 

Tamiya clearly meant the canopies to be in the open position and it takes some work to make them look good if closed. There is also an error in the clear parts. The aluminium coloured strip with screws on it and the camouflaged strip had swapped places (fill the holes and drill new ones).

 

Lovely work with the rear fuselage!

 

Cheers,

Antti

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33 minutes ago, Antti_K said:

Hello Anthony,

 

by heart I would say that you are correct about the serials: both FG.1s and FGR.2s were equipped with flight controls in the front office only (XV...) and with dual controls (XT...). There were some exceptions to this rule, but I can't remember the details. I think that there is a listing in FG.1 Pilot's Notes about the control arrangements. I just need to find the manual... Poor Navs who had to operate the radar in its stowed position...

 

Tamiya clearly meant the canopies to be in the open position and it takes some work to make them look good if closed. There is also an error in the clear parts. The aluminium coloured strip with screws on it and the camouflaged strip had swapped places (fill the holes and drill new ones).

 

Lovely work with the rear fuselage!

 

Cheers,

Antti

Hi Anthony

In the aircrew manual I gave you in the cockpit layout section it shows in fig 12 the rear seat cockpit layout for dual aircraft

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4 hours ago, spruecutter96 said:

Legend has it that the Wild Hare conversion set has sold for nearly £1,000, on the rare occasions it has appeared on E-Bay. My mind is genuinely boggled by that...

 

Chris. 

Not legend. I’ve watched them go there. You can’t beat the law of supply and demand. 

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12 hours ago, spruecutter96 said:

Legend has it that the Wild Hare conversion set has sold for nearly £1,000, on the rare occasions it has appeared on E-Bay.

Ironic, considering how trying to retain that resale value for the OEM is what brought down Meteor Products in the end 🤔

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I have to ask is this going to be an RN or RAF Phantom? I have to say I'd really like to do a project like this but if the set is going for as much as is mentioned above I've no chance lol.

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On 9/8/2021 at 2:29 AM, Tailspin Turtle said:

Trivia: Rear cockpit controls were evaluated by the Navy very early on in the F4H program. It basically consisted of the flight controls and an extra instrument or two, that enabled the airplane to be flown from the back but without some critical capability, like brakes if I remember correctly (it's in my F4H-1/F4H-1F/F-4A monograph but I'm away from home). The Navy decided dual controls weren't required (it was considered an easy airplane to fly and there weren't enough instruments in the back seat for instrument proficiency or visibility from the back seat for a safety pilot) but the provisions for them and drawings were used by the Air Force for its F-4s. XT-595 and 6 had throttles in the aft cockpit but no stick or pedals, basically so a pilot or flight test engineer could independently operate the Speys as required for inflight testing.

Thank you so very much, that is really interesting info.  Just goes to show that you shouldnt just presume aye?

 

Thanks again for sharing your depth of knowledge here, very much appreciated!

Cheers Anthony

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On 9/8/2021 at 6:30 AM, bigbadbadge said:

The fuselage looks superb Anthony, I love the wash in the panel lines as is, lovely. Great work. 

Chris

Thanks Chris, I quite like that photo too....it inspires me to get on with the cockpit!

 

On 9/8/2021 at 6:44 AM, spruecutter96 said:

My apologies if this has already been covered by other posters here. I haven't read through every page of this thread. 

 

From what I've read, the Hong Kong British Phantom has run in to a major set-back in the last two years. The fella who was producing the CAD work had to withdraw from the project for personal reasons. I believe he had been working on it for 3-4 years. For undisclosed reasons, HK Models was then unable to make any use of his work and have had to start the whole thing over again. 

 

The short version seems to be that HK will bring out a British Rhino, but it might not be for several years more. I can understand that this is not much consolation to anyone who eagerly awaiting the new model. It should be released but, when I just don't know.

 

Chris.     

I think you have pretty much summed it up, that's how I kinda understand it too.

 

On 9/8/2021 at 9:47 PM, spruecutter96 said:

Legend has it that the Wild Hare conversion set has sold for nearly £1,000, on the rare occasions it has appeared on E-Bay. My mind is genuinely boggled by that...

 

Chris. 

Sheesh...me too!  I wonder how many actually made it out to customers?

But in all reality, you really dont need that conversion set to do this now.  The intakes were wrong as was the tapering back to the mid fuse (I had to reverse/undo the conversion there) the ramps were incorrect and the rear engine cans very basic.  If you could modify the intakes like I did (you have to anyway as the WH ones are way too wide) and make a lower engine and 'hot' section and flanks, then with Ali's bits you have most of the hard work done IMHO.

 

On 9/8/2021 at 11:43 PM, Antti_K said:

Tamiya clearly meant the canopies to be in the open position and it takes some work to make them look good if closed. There is also an error in the clear parts. The aluminium coloured strip with screws on it and the camouflaged strip had swapped places (fill the holes and drill new ones).

 

Lovely work with the rear fuselage!

Yes Thanks Antti, I remember you explaining that early on in this conversion, I can fix that easily enough...dont let me forget closer to the time though!

 

On 9/9/2021 at 12:17 AM, Tony G said:

Hi Anthony

In the aircrew manual I gave you in the cockpit layout section it shows in fig 12 the rear seat cockpit layout for dual aircraft

Aaah thank buddy, I didnt realise, I shall go back and check, although mine is an XV so I will need to see the differences!  Much appreciated

 

On 9/9/2021 at 6:46 AM, Tornado 01 said:

I might be a tad out of touch, but from memory the Phantom FGR.2s XV393 - 398 were also twin stick

 

 

Aaah ok that wouldnt surprise me now....thanks

 

22 hours ago, Alan P said:

Ironic, considering how trying to retain that resale value for the OEM is what brought down Meteor Products in the end 🤔

Ironic alright.....

 

20 hours ago, Deano353 said:

I have to ask is this going to be an RN or RAF Phantom? I have to say I'd really like to do a project like this but if the set is going for as much as is mentioned above I've no chance lol.

RAF 43sqn FG.1, cheers

 

Thanks for your interest and info guys, very interesting indeed!

 

Cheers Anthony

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  • 5 weeks later...

OK, now this is a lesson in Phantom intake geometry/shapes that I have studied at great length and these are my findings.  This may be dry and uninteresting to most, but this is for those of you wanting to perhaps know....a bit of a rivet-counting exercise if you will.

 

Aside from the basics we have established on the Brit Toom intakes is that:

A. The shoulder line is slightly higher on the Brit Tooms than the J-79 ones

B. The intake is shorter from the leading edge to the front lip

C. The intakes are wider through the vent sections

D. The opening is shorter on the vertical axis

E. There is an unusual 'hump' shape when viewed at certain angles

 

Now whilst trying to make all these things happen on the kit a few things became manifest. 

First, Because the sides of the fuse on Brit Tooms are wider and more rounded, this flatter curve across the shoulder translates into a different shape at the opening.  I will try and explain with photo's 

and not confuse you....hopefully!

 

See here how flat the sides of the J-79 intakes are  

7x41pD.jpg

 

YtCLDL.jpg

 

Now look at the Brit Toom

MIM6o7.jpg

 

Notice how the wider flatter (green) curve on the top/side of the intake translates across the top corner down the to a more fatter and curved front section at the intake opening?

xnq0eR.jpg

 

I know my way of explaining this is a bit crude, and I am sorry for that.  The orange lines are to give you a basic idea of that is going on.

The top line is how the 'hump is formed. By the higher shoulder, more rounded and wider intake translating down to the intake front which is shorter in height to the std J-79 engined ones. All these things give us that characteristic shape (I believe from my experience forever building up and sanding CA). The lower orange line shows the characteristic shape of all Phantoms, however this seems more exxagerated by the fach the front section of the intake is fatter, shorter and more rounded.

 

I bet this makes no sense...

 

Take a look at these pics and see if you can see what I mean

8UzMRE.jpg

 

dXKIac.jpg

 

zDjFZK.jpg

 

RtPZR2.jpg

In this pic above you can almost see where the intake bulges just in front of the black and white checks

 

Now, lets look back at a US Phantom intake....see what I mean?? Much flatter, sharper intake lip etc

SiUguX.jpg

 

I'm going mad, I know I can feel my OCD getting away on me LOL

 

My next post will be to show you how I fixed it on the kit and to prove I have been working on it still!

 

But in all honesty, this was an area that was really bugging me and I tried ignoring it, I really did!  At certain angles things just did not add up!  I needed to find the issue, and now I found it, it makes perfect sense and now my intakes look so much better.

 

I need a cuppa, I will show you how I did it in my next post

 

Cheers Anthony 

 

 

 

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My word Anthony,  that is a lesson indeed,  I wonder if my 72nd Fujimi FG.1 reflects this or did they just use the same moulds for both types? 

I am glad you've been able to overcome the issues , the work you have done on the intakes is fantastic so looking forward to seeing photos of them even more improved.

Chris

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Ok, so because I didnt want to do this after I had all my lovely surface detail done I didnt take many photos of the first (left) side being done.  But with a buffed shiny surface the issue just glared at me even more.  I tried telling myself that with a flat finish no one will ever notice....but it was an issue for me mentally.  This is where I started, by fixing the upper curve of the intake section through to the intake opening. This is just the beginning as I went further back from here. 

 

ER2e22.jpg

 

But I have taken more of the other side in progress.  Once the top profile was 'tweaked' I then had to build up the front section with CA as seen here. This was part of the way through the building up process

twU6iu.jpg

 

The left side finished as best I can, notice how much thicker the forward section now is.  Also of note is the lower intake lip being modified

hyaZCH.jpg

I think the 'hump' looks better now too

 

More rounded and far more accurate across the top too

5W6xMR.jpg

 

Lower lip looking better now too....

62BYp8.jpg

 

All the time this was going on I continued to finish off surface details on the right hand side

bQsW4E.jpg

 

iyHfBz.jpg

 

And a bit of an overall shot, to make me feel like I am making progress......

fnAFVV.jpg

 

So there we go, I am making progress but it is slow, thanks for tuning in and I hope this was of interest to some

 

Cheers Anthony

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I admire your efforts and perseverance to get an accurate model.  Looks very nice indeed Anthony your efforts will be rewarded when the paint goes on .  Mind you I love the in progress photos with you very neat panel lines highlighted as is, as they look wonderful.

Great work 

Chris

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Excellent informative post Anthony as usual. Looking forward to when you tackle the cockpits.

Be careful though, modellers and engineers fully appreciate and understand your attention to detail, others may consider sending in the men in white coats with straitjacket and an invitation to a padded room.  Keeps the doors locked. and carry on,  Ha Ha

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11 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

The word ‘Epic’ seems inadequate for the magnificence that is going on here. 
 

Trevor

Awww thanks mate, but I am not so sure about that... I am just bungling my way along making it up as I go 

 

11 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

I admire your efforts and perseverance to get an accurate model.  Looks very nice indeed Anthony your efforts will be rewarded when the paint goes on .  Mind you I love the in progress photos with you very neat panel lines highlighted as is, as they look wonderful.

Great work 

Chris

Thanks again Chris, I always appreciate your feedback and encouragement.  Yeah the panel lines really make the shapes 'pop' out from an otherwise grey surface.

 

10 hours ago, Alan P said:

There are two kinds of people in this world, my friend.

Clint

Those who do, and those who watch.

 

I'm happy just watching 👍

LOL Alan....you are a do'er mate.  I have seen what you are capable of!  Thanks again for the encouragement.  I am enjoying your F-4E on the GB, that is motivating me for sure.  When you got your wings on I REALLY wanted to get to that point too

 

9 hours ago, Tony G said:

Excellent informative post Anthony as usual. Looking forward to when you tackle the cockpits.

Be careful though, modellers and engineers fully appreciate and understand your attention to detail, others may consider sending in the men in white coats with straitjacket and an invitation to a padded room.  Keeps the doors locked. and carry on,  Ha Ha

Haha, well I am pleased about that!  I will keep my doors locked all the same :D.  Nice to know from you and others, the work going in is not being missed

 

I have started basic geometry work on the cockpit and have the Aires pit trimmed to fit and chopped in a couple of places.  Nothing much to look at though right now.  Lots of little parts are broken off unfortunately, most I can fix but the coaming piece has not survived the box packing very well, I am not sure if I can fix it, I could try Aires customer service and see if they can help me?

 

I have also contacted the British Phantom Aviation Preservation Society in the hope they can help with rear cockpit photos, the front cockpit pretty much is like a 'J' in the Fg.1.

 

Cheers guys

Anthony

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30 minutes ago, Covjets13 said:

Anthony, your attention to detail, and tenacity are inspirational, let alone your modelling skills. You are an inspiration to my current Phantom build. Can’t wait till the next instalment..

 

thanks for sharing Si 

Awww thanks buddy!  I will be emailing you for tips on your NMF you did on the back end of your gorgeous 'J' build you are doing by the way

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