1/32 Brit Phantom FG.1 XV571 conversion from Tamiya and Wild Hare set

[Anthony in NZ]

Quick pic of the subtle weathering and white IFR probe well, see the rear of it is squared off as per original and dosent have that half circle well in the back. 

 

Off to mix the JB Weld up...

Cheers Anthony

[Alan P]

You're really writing the book on this conversion Anthony...sadly your results are probably unreproducible for mere mortals 😂

[Anthony in NZ]

11 minutes ago, Alan P said:

You're really writing the book on this conversion Anthony...sadly your results are probably unreproducible for mere mortals 😂

You're too kind Alan, I have seen what you can do!  It's just a case of belligerence, nothing difficult once you know what needs doing. 

 

Besides, once this is done a kit will come out and my job will be done for you all....If an IM British Phantom comes out because of this then I should be made a 'life or gold member' of Britmodeller and LSP   LOL

 

[Alan P]

12 minutes ago, Anthony in NZ said:

Besides, once this is done a kit will come out and my job will be done for you all....If an IM British Phantom comes out because of this then I should be made a 'life or gold member' of Britmodeller and LSP   LOL

Ha ha! The law of sod will always prevail 😂 I'm looking forward to the new Italeri F3 which will be released just as the final varnish coat is dry on mine 😤

[Max Headroom]

Hong Kong Models announced one a few years ago and then.......square root of nowt!

 

Trevor

[Anthony in NZ]

7 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

Hong Kong Models announced one a few years ago and then.......square root of nowt!

 

Trevor

I know mate, I was as excited as anything on hearing about its release.  Surely there has already been enough time, research and money go into it not to abandon it?  In the meantime I shall take one for the team LOL  Surely someone will do it, or at least a Tamiya conversion, I mean reheat cans and vari ramps are done, perhaps there is an opportunity for a basic 'starter conversion' or something?

 

Intakes are all cured this morning,  Next issue to look at is dealing with the intake shoulder shapes....eeek!

[Max Headroom]

⬆️ No pressure then........

 

Trevor

[Antti_K]

I'm also waiting for that "promised" HK kit...

 

Anthony, here is an excellent photo for you showing the shape:

 

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Historical-Library/Royal-Air-Force/RAF-Yearbook-1981/Royal-Air-Force-Yearbook-1981_Page_05-960

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Anthony in NZ]

23 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

⬆️ No pressure then........

 

Trevor

LOL, no Trevor!

 

6 hours ago, Antti_K said:

I'm also waiting for that "promised" HK kit...

 

Anthony, here is an excellent photo for you showing the shape:

 

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Historical-Library/Royal-Air-Force/RAF-Yearbook-1981/Royal-Air-Force-Yearbook-1981_Page_05-960

 

Cheers,

Antti

Yes thats really good Antti, thank you!

 

Left intake is finally fine tuned on the side and I am happy with the result, except the tops/shoulders are a mess

 

Warning, ugly photo!

Now we have the corrected front 2/3rd's of the intake section added.  But where it attaches to the WH fuselage is all misshapen, quite a mess (this is where using the original Tamiya fuselage would have been easier whereby you could run a cut down the top of the intake shoulder and widen it yourself for a smoother transition.  This is due mostly because the WH intakes were far too big and the fuselage line came out too far.  Remember the cuts I made in the top to bring the width back down to the correct dimension?  Now I have to rebuild the shape.

 

This area is actually very complex and I have studied it for more hours than I dare think!  I will do a separate post to show you my findings with the help of a few others here.

 

Anyway, at the moment I am just 'filling the hole' so to speak and then I can get to contouring it all, so dont worry those of you who know the shapes.  The 'high point' you will see in this next pic is not where it will end up. As I say I am just trying to build the initial corner/shoulder up at the moment

 

I am really happy I cut the height of the intake down, as I can see now how this will help with the top contour later on

 

When I get closer to the shape I need I will try and explain the complexities of this area in an update

 

As always gents I appreciate your comments, knowledge and likes, you have no idea how much you are helping me slog through this!

 

Cheers Anthony

[Antti_K]

A small step for a modeller, one giant leap towards the correct shape😉

 

Those intakes sit far better than the original ones. Nice work! What is that weird looking filler called you are using there? I made a "prototype" of the Revell kit intake parts and cut down the height also (after staring at the parts and photographs for hours). I think you are very much on a correct track. The contour of the top side is more curved than in F-4J. There are also some very useful photos in Patrick Martin's book "British Phantoms" (Patrick is here on BM).

 

I used strips of polystyrene attached on top of the intake funnel to correct the shape. Everything was then blended in with Milliput. The side profile is very wrong if original kit parts are used straight out of the box: the top of the intake funnel should be parallel to the fuselage spine, not running downwards from mid fuselage toward the lip.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Anthony in NZ]

8 hours ago, Antti_K said:

A small step for a modeller, one giant leap towards the correct shape😉

 

Those intakes sit far better than the original ones. Nice work! What is that weird looking filler called you are using there? I made a "prototype" of the Revell kit intake parts and cut down the height also (after staring at the parts and photographs for hours). I think you are very much on a correct track. The contour of the top side is more curved than in F-4J. There are also some very useful photos in Patrick Martin's book "British Phantoms" (Patrick is here on BM).

 

I used strips of polystyrene attached on top of the intake funnel to correct the shape. Everything was then blended in with Milliput. The side profile is very wrong if original kit parts are used straight out of the box: the top of the intake funnel should be parallel to the fuselage spine, not running downwards from mid fuselage toward the lip.

 

Cheers,

Antti

LOL, thanks buddy, it is a giant leap towards the correct shape!

 

I sanded back the first application of JB Weld to take off the high spots and gave the area another application, I can see the shape slowly coming out of the kit.  Nothing to really photograph except a bigger blob of grey epoxy on the corner.

 

Here is an image of the product I use Antti, most automotive and hardware stores seem to sell it.  The guys on LSP put me onto it, great stuff and seems to scribe well on my tests

 

Hope that helps

 

I am trying to figure out how to explain the different shapes on the intake, I might need your input when I have done it to correct anything I missed etc.  It is hard to describe isnt it?

 

Cheers Anthony

Edited May 8, 2021 by Anthony in NZ

[Anthony in NZ]

Intake shoulder shapes....

 

Ok I will try and keep this as simple as I can so as not to confuse anyone like I confused myself.  Here are my conclusions with the help of Derek B Barry, Chek and scjh  on LSP as well as @Antti_K @canberra kid , and a few others I am sorry if I missed you.  I am going to use a few images here I am sorry in advance if I dont credit them properly, it's purely for illustrative purposes.

 

I always knew the Brit Phantom had wider intakes (not as wide as we all thought initially)  but had never noticed the appearance of a 'hump' along the intake shoulders until Barry pointed it out to me....oh dear, NO!  Ugh, I decided that if I am to do this properly I am going to need to sort it out...here is Barry's image

 

 

You can be forgiven for never noticing it before like me as at some angles it is not very obvious

 

But at other angles is clear to see, in fact the lower down you get the more pronounced it gets

 

 

My initial thought was 'where does it come from?  Initially I thought at the junction of where the intake top meets the cockpit side, but pics indicate as Derek B advised that no it dosent.

See here, that line is perfectly straight

(photo Derek Bradshaw)

 

So then it must 'bulge upwards', Derek said no it is flat.  At first I wasnt sure I believed him (sorry mate!) so I studied it more, and sure enough it is flat across the top, these illustrate

See how flat and rounded things are...

 

 

No upward bulging here...ugh!

 

Then I could see finally what was going on.  Because the intakes are wider and the sides at this point of the fuselage are physically wider the curve is deeper or wider too.  Not seen from up high but noticeable as you get down to and below the shoulder line

I wont go into the complexities of the internal trunking due to the fact the Spey has a different thrust line and bigger diameter

So as you can see, I am building up the corners now, not pretty I know but definitely a unique feature of these Phantoms and a 'must' if you are doing one..

 

And the journey begins!

 

 

One thing I think is important to mention.  Remember I cut the height out of the kit intakes, this is really important otherwise I worry you might not capture these odd shapes.

 

I hope this makes sense and not confusing, I tried to keep it simple and this will be a case of using templates, photos and fine tuning until I am satisfied I have it right.

Please I encourage others here to add their thoughts too, I may have overlooked explaining something.

 

Thanks for hanging in there team.

 

Cheers Anthony

 

 

[bigbadbadge]

Some cracking shots there, the JB weld looks interesting too, might see if my local car spares shop has some of that.  

I had no idea  re the shape complexity of the shoulders that is fascinating and looking forward to seeing each side develop.   It's a sort of forensic approach to decifer the photos and translate onto the model.  Great work 

Chris

[heloman1]

Anthony, a little late for this time but if you had masked off the area where the hump is to go and then applied the goop/epoxy. Then place and tape a piece of cling film or poly bag material over that. Then use a former or rule to drag/spread the epoxy almost to the contour you required, you could have save a lot of sanding. It's a trick sometimes used by car bodywork specialists, saves sanding time. JMTPW

Enjoying the build.

 

Colin

[Anthony in NZ]

1 hour ago, bigbadbadge said:

Some cracking shots there, the JB weld looks interesting too, might see if my local car spares shop has some of that.  

I had no idea  re the shape complexity of the shoulders that is fascinating and looking forward to seeing each side develop.   It's a sort of forensic approach to decifer the photos and translate onto the model.  Great work 

Chris

Thanks Chris, yep JB Weld is good stuff!

 

2 minutes ago, heloman1 said:

Anthony, a little late for this time but if you had masked off the area where the hump is to go and then applied the goop/epoxy. Then place and tape a piece of cling film or poly bag material over that. Then use a former or rule to drag/spread the epoxy almost to the contour you required, you could have save a lot of sanding. It's a trick sometimes used by car bodywork specialists, saves sanding time. JMTPW

Enjoying the build.

 

Colin

Aaah Colin, that's a great idea!  I will definitely use it for future projects, thank you!

[heloman1]

41 minutes ago, Anthony in NZ said:

Thanks Chris, yep JB Weld is good stuff!

 

Aaah Colin, that's a great idea!  I will definitely use it for future projects, thank you!

I don't no if you have got to sanding the epoxy yet or how it sands. Maybe car body filler would have been a better option, it would certainly blend better.

 

Colin

[Anthony in NZ]

9 minutes ago, heloman1 said:

I don't no if you have got to sanding the epoxy yet or how it sands. Maybe car body filler would have been a better option, it would certainly blend better.

 

Colin

Yes it sands really well. Once the basic shape is done, I will tweak and fine tune with CA like I did on the ‘hot area’ then hit it with Mr Surfacer.  Then I will fix any imperfections and rescribe and replace the surface details. 
 

But I’m really making it up as I go lol!

[heloman1]

Good news, why stick to a plan when you can make it up. Just like saying, never do today, that which you can safely put off until tomorrow!

I'm not a big fan of epoxy, we used to get Aradite here but now only get the local Pratley stuff. It never seems to quite harden 100%! There two part putty is quite good and has rapid set time.

Another product we can get is Epidermix again a two part epoxy good for making small moulds but takes an age to set!

I'm quite sure you are going to make an excellent job of it.

 

Colin

[Anthony in NZ]

14 minutes ago, heloman1 said:

Good news, why stick to a plan when you can make it up. Just like saying, never do today, that which you can safely put off until tomorrow!

I'm not a big fan of epoxy, we used to get Aradite here but now only get the local Pratley stuff. It never seems to quite harden 100%! There two part putty is quite good and has rapid set time.

Another product we can get is Epidermix again a two part epoxy good for making small moulds but takes an age to set!

I'm quite sure you are going to make an excellent job of it.

 

Colin

Thanks Colin

I’m always open to ideas, maybe automotive filler might be something to try too?  This JB Weld takes about 8 hours to cure to a strength easily sandible. I’ve just got to keep an eye on if it shrinks much. Hence I think the CA is good because of its stability 

 

Cheers Anthony 

[Antti_K]

Hello Anthony,

 

you have some very good photos to point out the complex shape. I think everyone who is genuinely interested in the subject will notice the "point". It is all about the curvature of the intake funnel's "corner".

 

 

The "corner" is more rounded at the point "curvature starts here" than at the point "highest point". I think the photo of Black Mike taken from the rear shows this well. There is another complex shape to deal with: the canopies and especially the area around them... But we'll discuss that later. Carry on your inspiring work.

 

I need to check if I can find that epoxy here in Finland.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Tailspin Turtle]

Forgive me if this has been posted before in this excellent build article but it provides some background on the Spey changes: https://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2012/05/spey-powered-phantom-changes.html

[heloman1]

Thanks for posting that Tommy. An interesting insight.

 

Colin

[Alan P]

4 hours ago, Tailspin Turtle said:

Forgive me if this has been posted before in this excellent build article but it provides some background on the Spey changes: https://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2012/05/spey-powered-phantom-changes.html

It's only when you read it all together like this you really ask, 'WHYYYYY????!!! did they do it?'

[Anthony in NZ]

On 5/10/2021 at 5:43 AM, Antti_K said:

Hello Anthony,

 

you have some very good photos to point out the complex shape. I think everyone who is genuinely interested in the subject will notice the "point". It is all about the curvature of the intake funnel's "corner".

 

 

The "corner" is more rounded at the point "curvature starts here" than at the point "highest point". I think the photo of Black Mike taken from the rear shows this well. There is another complex shape to deal with: the canopies and especially the area around them... But we'll discuss that later. Carry on your inspiring work.

 

I need to check if I can find that epoxy here in Finland.

 

Cheers,

Antti

 

Hi Antti

I didnt realise Patrick was a member here?  If you're reading this Patrick, thank you for such a great book and all your research, this has been most helpful.  I only have part 2 as I am doing my Phantom in her later service years, but I am sure Vol 1 is just as good, highly recommended!  Although if I must confess Kerry brought the book for himself and loaned it to me saying that I must see this!

 

Yes 'Black Mike' is a great study in shapes, so pleased she survives and is in that scheme, really helps identify shape issues etc

 

5 hours ago, Tailspin Turtle said:

Forgive me if this has been posted before in this excellent build article but it provides some background on the Spey changes: https://tailhooktopics.blogspot.com/2012/05/spey-powered-phantom-changes.html

Tommy, your website is one of my 'go to' resources... sorry I forgot to thank you earlier in my prev thread (dang I knew I would miss someone!) your information is a huge mine of information for me and a massive help as was your emails with Derek to me personally on the IFR probe, thank you soooo much!

 

59 minutes ago, Alan P said:

It's only when you read it all together like this you really ask, 'WHYYYYY????!!! did they do it?'

I think it started out political (introducing a new aircraft that included a large part manufactured in Britain?)  I suspect, what started out as a simple engine change quickly escalated into a virtually whole new airframe.  With probably a lot 'but if we do that then we need to do this...and if that gets done then it creates this issue and so on it went??)  Tommy knows best of all there, but the Brit Toom story sure is an interesting one!

 

Not much to update except I have got the left intake shapes 'pretty right' I think,  I am just doing some tidy up of edges and details and I can spray it with Mr Surfacer and see where I need to go after that.  It has taken 2 days solid fine tuning this shoulder area, to the point I am dreaming Phantom intakes LOL

 

Oh Kerry sent me a reprint of the 'tweaked' vari ramp, but when I get the protective masking off the intake I will test them.

 

Cheers and thanks everybody

Anthony

Edited May 10, 2021 by Anthony in NZ

[Anthony in NZ]

Might as well show you where I am at...not really much to look at