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Thailand NA Harvards – standard camo colours WW2?


Juanita

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Hi all

Wondering what camo colours were used on the Thai North American NA-68 and NA-69 (Harvard family).

The colors are normally depicted as a olive drab type colour and a mid brown.

However I have heard the colours were in fact two tones of brown.

 

Here are photos of the Thai examples after they were redirected to US training schools.
https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/north-american-a-27.53755/


If the dark colour is dark green then it must be one of the light shades of something like Olive Drab

 

If the 'two tones of brown' is correct then could it be something like the RAF desert scheme (which might also better match the tonal quality of the photos):

https://military.wikia.org/wiki/North_American_T-6_Texan?file=North_American_Harvard_II_restored_in_desert_camouflage.jpg  (maybe a touch toned down from this)

 

Juanita
 

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There is a colour photo in one of Jeff Ethell's books, but I don't have it to hand at the moment.  Memory says that it was a dark green/OD and a reddish mid brown.  Certainly  nothing like RAF Desert colours.  Other Thai aircraft are also regularly portrayed in these colours, which seem much more appropriate to the Thai environment.  

 

It is possible that the b&w photos show faded examples.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for the reply Graham (and sorry for my slow response)

 

The researcher I'm working with is sure that the colours were two tone brown. Certainly nothing like the colours of the restored example.

 

I'll have a hunt through Ethell's images on line. Suspect the photos you're talking about won't appear, but its worth a try.

 

Juanita

 

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If not already seen, there is a colour photo on this page: http://www.wings-aviation.ch/53-Military-Aircraft-in-Detail/NorthAmerican-Texan/Trainer.htm

(the URL for the picture is: http://www.wings-aviation.ch/53-Military-Aircraft-in-Detail/NorthAmerican-Texan/Bild-01.jpg); however, there is no information regarding the date of the photo.

 

 

A bit less helpful is this photo (taken from: http://rach1968.blogspot.com/2017/05/blog-post.html)

 

spacer.png

 

 

The Thais had their own designation system, so you may want to use the Thai designation บ.ฝ.๘ (B.F.8) when searching for T-6 info.

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Blimpyboy
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Thank you very much for those, and for the suggestion to search with the designation บ.ฝ.๘ (B.F.8)

 

It is interesting to see the line up of Harvards...the closest one has dark camouflage colours, but two of the ones behind it have a much lighter colour in the camouflage pattern. The Hawk 75 that I am drawing has dark camouflage colours...much like the nearest Harvard.

 

I will have more of a look through the blog website - it looks very interesting. Perhaps I might find other aircraft with colours that might be a clue for the Hawk 75. Looking closely at the Hawk photo it seems the aircraft underside was natural metal, which suggests it was not a factory paint scheme, but that it was camouflage in Thialand.

 

I am having trouble with the tail code.
This is the photo compared with my artworks - is it correct?

spacer.png

Juanita

 

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There was a Thai H-75 thread on Britmodeller a few years ago, but I'm not sure any accurate colour info was forthcoming.

 

There is some more T-6 info on this page: https://www.thaifighterclub.org/webboard/13583/RTAF-AIRCRAFT-STORY.html (scroll down or do a screen search for "Texan Story"), plus some more black-and-white photos. Sadly, only one photo shows a camouflaged aircraft and I think it's a post-WWII bird.

 

A02138418120501110352.jpg

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To be honest, you've forced me back to my books regarding Thai script and the varieties thereof!

 

As to your representation, I think it's very close to the original. My only observation is that perhaps the original is slightly more rounded - not as a cursive script, but just not as square-edged, if that makes sense.

Mind you, it is a blurry original and my eyes aren't what they used to be, so you may not want to rely on my judgement...

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It's quite possibly an old-fashioned 'font' (for want of a better word) - like any script, styles do change over time, and even the styles and meanings of some combinations can become obsolete (just look at the King's English...😉).

 

I'll put some feelers out, if you like, to see if I can find some contemporaneous examples of the script - it may take a little time, 'though, what with my rusty skills and COVID shenanigans making travel and correspondence difficult for us all! Still, it'll be something to curl up over a hot drink with over the chilly nights.

 

Also, I dug up the old Britmodeller thread regarding the Hawk 75N (or the ข.บ.๑๑/ข.บ.11 {B.Kh. 11}, as the Thais also called it): 

 

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Thank you Blimpyboy.

 

Sydney has just gone into a Covid semi-volentary soft lockdown...so I've got more time on my hands than expect. 😞

 

It is interesting to see how German lettering changed during WW2. 1930s aircraft manual are very difficult to deciper.

 

Thank you for digging up that old discussion thread. I will look at it now.

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No sweat, it’s a pleasure.

 

 I have just managed to return home to Japan, after being ‘stuck’ in Australia (NSW south coast) since January!

Sorry to hear about Sydney. Still, Australia is one of a few places that is actually managing COVID successfully - I couldn’t think of too many alternatives I’d rather deal with!

 

Keep your chin up!

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Ah, there are worst places to be stuck than the South Coast…providing you’re not a ‘bustling cities’ type person.😊

Just sad to not see family (its been a while), otherwise I have nothing to complain about.

Juanita

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