1/600 What-if 16 gun HMS Belfast

[TallBlondJohn]

The machinery arrangement in Belfast and Edinburgh meant the funnels were further aft and so the forward superstructure could be made narrower, creating a deck walkway on each side of the hangars. This was desired as the hull-wide superstructure of earlier Towns was inconvenient for moving men and equipment up and down the ship, and if was feared severe damage could effectively cut off crew in the bows.

However this broader structure had also allowed room for quad pom-poms with good firing arcs, at the cost of top-weight. So Belfast and Edinburgh got midships octuple mounts as compensation - though I agree, if it was my ship I would want those forward guns, as Cunningham noted Towns seemed to attract dive-bombers. Note that 20mm Oerlikons appeared around the bridge and B turret on both Belfast and Edinburgh, although they were probably only effective as deterrents.

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday, thanks for your interest and comments. I agree, I've never seen cruisers with two breakwaters, and this just didn't look right. I've removed the aft set, despite it being in scribed planked area, for a couple of reasons. If I kept the aft set it would need a patch-up job. Plus I plan to put some rafts or paravanes etc over the plastic deck joins in front of 'A' turret, and I think such equipment stowed there would be behind the breakwater, to relieve some of the impact of flooding seas in heavy weather. My thoughts, anyway.

     Regarding the light AA outfit, I haven't thought that far ahead as yet. I guess quad pompoms on the hangars could be possible, although the kit has searchlights there. But you've given me an idea. I can make quads but never tried octo mounts yet. Maybe replace the two octo mounts with quads and add two more quads on the hangars. I could probably sponson them out a bit. This should be OK under the 'whiff clause', and as noted such an arrangement would give better coverage with the same firepower. Plus it gives me two of the three octo mounts I'll need for a HMS Hood 1941 build I'm planning early next year. "Good thinking, 99"

     Again, thank you all for your interest and responses. Stay safe, and regards, Jeff.

[Modelholic]

I'm not familiar with the "Good thinking, 99" phrase. Please enlighten me, kind sir!

FWIW. I found this:

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/138046-british-heavy-cruiser-design-notes/

Yes, I know it's WoW but there are some nice sketches and the author seems to have done some research.

Tom

Perhaps there should be dedicated a Maritime Whiff thread.

[Chewbacca]

6 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Gidday, thanks for your interest and comments. I agree, I've never seen cruisers with two breakwaters, and this just didn't look right. I've removed the aft set, despite it being in scribed planked area,

I think that's the right call Jeff.  The aft one on its own I sense would have been too far aft.  Making good progress with this.

[ArnoldAmbrose]

1 hour ago, Modelholic said:

I'm not familiar with the "Good thinking, 99" phrase.

Gidday Tom, this was a common comment by Max Smart (Agent 86) to his offsider, Agent 99 in the TV series "Get Smart". Admittedly it was a while ago now, but I used to think it was very funny in it's day.

That discussion on the World of Warships forum was interesting, and I agree, a host of whiffs possible there. Thanks for the info. Regards, Jeff.

[TallBlondJohn]

2 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

I think that's the right call Jeff.  The aft one on its own I sense would have been too far aft.  Making good progress with this.

 

Errr... I hope that works! Looking at plans, the breakwater is usually closer to A turret - no point in having it if waves go over the top. The perfect place for the breakwater would be at the join, will help to cover it up. When I did my Edinburgh I removed the breakwater and rebuilt it from thin plasticard and paper soaked in CA, it looked much better.

Of course you will lose more plank scribing, but maybe we are at the rescribe stage by now anyway. Personally I don't think deck planking would be visible below 1/350 anyway, So I usually remove it and just lightly score with the tip of a scalpel after painting so the lines are just there.

 

Anyway, its your ship! BTW forward pom-poms will need directors, they were usually sponsoned out of the bridge deck.

 

Very good WoWs link, seems my Dominion idea was on the right lines. Those Admirals would have been very nice ships. HMS Beatty can save some space by not bothering with signals!😉

 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

2 minutes ago, TallBlondJohn said:

Errr... I hope that works! Looking at plans, the breakwater is usually closer to A turret - no point in having it if waves go over the top.

Gidday, I hadn't thought of that. A rethink might be in order. I've got a bit of a time limit on this build, being a GB on another forum, with a couple more banked up behind this. But deck fittings can be added later so I might managed a rethink/rearrangement anyway. Thanks for your knowledge and input. Regards, Jeff.

[Modelholic]

I sorta remember 'Get Smart', but can't remember ever watching it!

Ho Hum, as they say...somewhere!

Tom

[beefy66]

Really taking shape there Jeff making some interesting notes that are coming out of these great discussions  

 

Stay Safe

beefy

 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday All, here's another progress report on the 16 gun HMS Belfast. I've painted the upper hull, some of the weather decks, the turrets and barbettes.

The upper hull is Revell Re matt 57 while the blue stripe is Re matt 56. The stbd side is similar, only the stripe is Hu79, with more Hu79 at each end of the ship. The upperworks will be Hu64, and I'm still planning on painting the underwater hull Hu31. Inside the hull you can see my paint trials.
     This build is becoming a lot more complex than I first thought. It is certainly no longer simply an OOB build with larger turrets plonked on it. I think I mentioned before that I've moved 'A' turret aft about 10mm. Because I've lengthened the turrets I now have had to move 'B' turret further aft again to gain clearance, and the bridge structure even further aft. Similar for the aft turrets. This has resulted in modifications to decks and deckhouses, removal of guide bits on the decks etc. I think I can still fit the catapult and aircraft but it's going to be a tight squeeze amidships.
     This kit is I think the only Airfix kit I do that hasn't a waterline marked on the outer hull, so I'll have to do that myself. There is a groove inside the hull, where you're supposed to cut if a waterline model is desired, but I prefer full hull model ships. I'll have to do the waterline soon, plus more plastic butchery.
     Speaking of which, the scribed deck planking has suffered terribly, particularly around 'A' turret. I pity the Buffer (Chief Bosun's Mate) because the First Lieutenant is going to go ballistic when he sees it! Still, if he can't take a joke he shouldn't have joined. (Do they still say that in the Navy?)

     Well, that's pretty much where I'm up to. Hopefully hull painting completed and weather decks fitted soon. So thank you for your interest. Stay safe and regards to all, Jeff.

[TallBlondJohn]

Is this the time to mention Airfix's paint guide is wrong too, and Belfast had planked turret decks? Never mind, its a what-if

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday TBJ, actually the instructions show that but I hadn't checked. Thanks. I'll see if I can redo them. Regards, Jeff.

[mdesaxe]

11 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Still, if he can't take a joke he shouldn't have joined.

That is what they said to me after SADF drafted me and before I spent large parts of the next four years hovering over Angola.

 

Maurice

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday All, the 16gun HMS Belfast now has her hull painted. There has been a bit of discussion recently on another part of the forum regarding the underwater colours of some RN ships. One notable ship mentioned is HMS Hood, a ship I wish to model early next year. It has been suggested that instead of the traditional brick-red her antifouling paint colour was more of a slate grey, but I think this has still to be confirmed. As this build is a whiff I've decided to experiment a little on the hull colours.
     I've painted the underwater hull of this build in Hu31. I've chosen this colour for two reasons - I had it in stock, and I wanted a colour that was different from most of the above-water greys I've used. This turned out a little bit greener than I planned but hey, put it down to verdigris. 

     I've said in the past that I like a bit of variety in the display cabinet and this is certainly - er - different. The jury is still out on whether I like it but I'm keeping it as it is. As you can see I still have to attach the shafts, screws and rudder. I find that masking the lower waterline is easier without them fitted.

     Well, that's it for now. Thank you for your interest. Stay safe, and regards to all, Jeff.

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday Guys, thanks for your comments and interest. I've got a quick progress update on the 16 gun HMS Belfast. I've finally glued the barbettes to their respective decks. Everything else in this photo is dry-fitted. The turrets can lock in or be removed.

    I think she's going to look reasonably balanced. The foc'sle deck will extend right back to the 'X' turret deck and I'll be doing that soon. I've simply placed the funnels in their approximate location to see what she'll look like. They're closer together than in the real ship. When I start doing the ship's waist I might be able to spread them a little more. And it's looking extremely like the ship will only carry four twin 4-inch mountings in the waist. I'm sure I'll be able to use the other two mountings elsewhere.
     The eagle-eyed among you may have noticed that 'B' and 'X' turret decks are now planked, as opposed to the dark grey non-slip steel that I've portrayed two photos up. TBJ above informed me of the planking, and when I checked the instructions I found that he was correct. His alert was very timely. Thanks.
     Anyway, that's it for now. The next planned tasks are extending the foc'sle deck (it becomes the catapult deck and then the 4-inch gun deck or boat deck) and to add the shafts, screws and rudder.

Oh, and BTW Maurice, I meant to ask - SADF?
     So 'bye for now. Stay safe, and regards to all, Jeff.

[mdesaxe]

3 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Oh, and BTW Maurice, I meant to ask - SADF?

South African Defence Force

 

Maurice

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Thanks Maurice, I wondered it that was the case.

 

Gidday All, when I build a model ship I have a couple of stages I call milestones, when reached. One is completing the hull painting, including the boot topping. The next is getting the weather decks painted and attached, and I reached this stage last night on my 16 gun HMS Belfast. Below is a photo.

     As you can see, I've added and painted the anchors, plus the shafts and rudder. These need their second coat of paint. In the background is my languishing HMS Jamaica. I've also done a bit more work on the superstructures. So now it's off to the 'fitting out basin', to use a ship building term.
     As I've said in an earlier post, this build has become much more complex than I first thought. Lengthening the main turrets and moving the fwd turrets and superstructure aft a bit has had a flow-on effect to just about everything else. Even the torpedo tubes (not in this photo). The tubes sit on the main weather deck midway between the pillars supporting the first and second 4-inch mounts. Moving the mounts aft meant I had to do the same with the tubes, and they now no longer have sufficient space to train outwards (note the cutaways in the deck-houses above to allow the space required). However, as I'll be fitting the tubes in their stowed position and the deck-houses won't be seen this will not be a problem. Just about everything in the waist of the ship has to be adjusted too. Oh well, I'll manage.
     While cutting the rudder from the sprue last night I forgot to hold said rudder down with a finger. Ping! It headed off rapidly in a westerly direction. I had to raid the spares box. You'd think I'd know better by now!
     Still much to do, most of it fiddly. Now that the weather decks are on I can (hopefully) proceed a little quicker with shuffling the funnels and remaining fittings. Oh, and I've been asked a little while back if I have a name for the beast? Right now, HMS Gordon is a strong contender, due to the large amounts of flash on the kit parts.
     Well, that's it for now. Got to shuffle and butcher more plastic. Thank you all for your interest. Stay safe and regards to all, Jeff.

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

On 12/14/2020 at 1:45 AM, mdesaxe said:

That is what they said to me after SADF drafted me and before I spent large parts of the next four years hovering over Angola.

 

Maurice

One of my coursemates got himself into minor hot water by responding to “if you can’t take a joke you shouldn’t have joined” (from his instructor, which tells you how sensible it was to respond...) with “if they can’t take a joke they shouldn’t have employed me”.   That cost him a few days’ leave, but we all (including him!) thought it was worth it.

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday All, this will probably be the final post of the 16 gun HMS Belfast before Christmas. The model is now screwed to it's building block. I've attached 'X' turret deck and the waist shelter deck (catapult deck, boat deck, 4-inch gun deck, whatever) plus I've been working on the superstructures.

     I now screw a model to a substantial block of wood at this stage and leave it attached for nearly the remainder of the build. At times it's like having a third hand, plus I now handle the build by the wood, thus preserving the paintwork. I screw through the wood via countersunk holes UP into the model. I screw to a set pattern and re-inforce the hull at these points very early. You can see this in the second photo of the build thread. I've done the same with my build of HMS Jamaica, and have included it here to demonstrate. That's her behind Belfast, the block on it's side to show the countersunk holes.
     I've been building up and modifying a little the forward superstructure, the fit around the forebridge is TERRIBLE. You may have noticed that I've added sponsons above the rear of the hangars for quad pompom AA guns. I've also fitted the torpedo tubes, not visible in the photo as they're inboard a bit and not right at the edge of the hull, like in most RN cruisers.
     The aft superstructure of the original kit had three levels - 'Y' turret deck, 'X' turret deck and the director deck. I've done away with the 'Y' turret deck and lowered the rest down one level. The director deck is to be moved forward a little and hence has been modified and a cut-out at it's forward end to accommodate the aft funnel. The funnel itself will sit on that white styrene rectangle you see in the photo, just aft of the dark grey midship deck. I've been painting some of the other deck-houses to go in this area and they can be fitted soon.
     That's just about it for now. I think I've done nearly all the structural modifications required except the aft pompom platform. I've got to add all the boats, light weapons, funnels, directors, masts etc. Still lots to do.
     Thank you for your interest. I wish you all the best for the season, whatever your beliefs. Stay safe in these times. Regards to all, Jeff.

[beefy66]

Cracking job so far Jeff  👍

 

Stay Safe and Best Wishes  🎄

beefy

[TallBlondJohn]

Hm, so your aft funnel is now over where the aft engine room would be - which is Ok if the funnel and engine rooms are switched, so the forward engine room is under the catapult. Getting the 6" and 4" aft directors onto the superstructure will be tight but should work. You could put the 6" director on top of X turret like the Colony class but it's not the prettiest solution (and was dropped from the Colonies in favour of more AA).

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday John, I'm going to invoke the 'Whiff Clause' and claim to those with more knowledge of ship's internal layout such as yourself that the funnels are trunked forwards under deck. 🙂 Yeah, I knew that the funnels are now a bit further aft than would be practical but short of scratch building the entire waist area I'm a bit limited in what I could do. I'm trying to use as much of the kit parts as I can to hurry the build along a bit as I've got another couple of GB's looming very soon, plus I want to get back to HMS Jamaica also. I have a deadline for all my WIPs - end of April for a model show here. And speaking of HMS Jamaica, I'm building her almost as built, with the director on 'X' turret as you mentioned.

     To have a practical arrangement of engine and boiler rooms, with the superstructure moved aft as I have, would probably have worked if the forward funnel was between the two hangars, as in the Town and Colony classes but, as I said, I wanted to use kit parts and didn't want to scratch build too much. Plus I wanted to retain the 'Belfast' look as much as possible, hence I have to sacrifice authenticity (as much as a whiff has it) and practicality a little. And yes, the aft superstructure is going to be cramped but I think both directors will still fit.

     I appreciate your observations and comments. You may have noticed that I acted on your advice regarding the planked decks of 'B' and 'X' turret decks. Thanks for that, it was very timely.

Regards, Jeff.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Well sir you have my attention... I like the idea of a heavy gunned ship like this. Maybe will need to try something like it myself. 

[Chewbacca]

14 hours ago, TallBlondJohn said:

Hm, so your aft funnel is now over where the aft engine room would be - which is Ok if the funnel and engine rooms are switched, so the forward engine room is under the catapult. Getting the 6" and 4" aft directors onto the superstructure will be tight but should work. You could put the 6" director on top of X turret like the Colony class but it's not the prettiest solution (and was dropped from the Colonies in favour of more AA).

I must confess that thought had crossed my mind as well but as Jeff says, it's a whiff and the intricacies of naval architecture can be ignored in whiffery 

[Modelholic]

Could you place the HA (4") directors port and starboard of the after structure, a deck down similar to the forward superstructure. Then the main director could move forward a bit.

Tom