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Stuck in a 3d rut..


Bangseat

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For comparison, Mars build plate = 120 x 68 x 155mm,  Mars 2 Pro = 129 x 80 x 160 mm, Saturn = 192 x 120 x 200 mm) and X10 = 216 x 135 x 250 mm so the Saturn shapes up pretty well, plate wise.

 

Regarding the clear resin, I've had limited success, need to play around with it some more, it's a bit of a palaver. For clear parts, I'll stick with traditional resin casting and vac-forming for now, hopefully things will progress in the future...it's a must for me too.

 

Apologies for drifting off topic, Bangseat, back to you.

 

 

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@general melchett, not at all, it is good to have a wider discussion about 3d printing problems. Reddit is full of advice about how to print gnarly monsters but I can't help feeling we are trying to achieve something trickier in terms of finish.

 

Pleased to say I had a successful full print last night. My settings haven't changed, but the print was arranged more centrally and with more supports. The printer was again heated:

 

2020-11-30_03-49-47

 

I am concluding for now that my problems are mainly temperature related for now, but there have been many excellent points for consideration!

 

@LorenSharp I have harped on about clear printing in another thread:

 For my money, with the right post print processing, and a 2k clear coat, you can get a reasonable part although you'll never be Tamiya. In 1:48 it maybe tricky, but I reckon a basic canopy shape - no frame - sanded, polished and 2k coated would give you good clarity. My parts have framework so in 1:72 I am not doing this, this is where I am up to:

 

2020-11-30_03-49-27

 

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11 minutes ago, Bangseat said:

@general melchett, not at all, it is good to have a wider discussion about 3d printing problems. Reddit is full of advice about how to print gnarly monsters but I can't help feeling we are trying to achieve something trickier in terms of finish.

 

Pleased to say I had a successful full print last night. My settings haven't changed, but the print was arranged more centrally and with more supports. The printer was again heated:

 

 

I am concluding for now that my problems are mainly temperature related for now, but there have been many excellent points for consideration!

 

@LorenSharp I have harped on about clear printing in another thread:

 For my money, with the right post print processing, and a 2k clear coat, you can get a reasonable part although you'll never be Tamiya. In 1:48 it maybe tricky, but I reckon a basic canopy shape - no frame - sanded, polished and 2k coated would give you good clarity. My parts have framework so in 1:72 I am not doing this, this is where I am up to:

 

 

 

Thanks Bangseat for the link. It answered a lot of initial questions and gives me a good place to start.  Is the canopy on your printed aircraft poured resin or printed? Either way all is excellent.

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2 hours ago, Bangseat said:

Hi Loren, its printed :)

 

I've had a go at clear resin casting, its definately wizardry...

Good job on the printing. I understand the wizardry bit. kinda like trying to getting Photo etch to work properly. Both are part of the Dark Arts.

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22 hours ago, Bangseat said:

Sanded, polished and 2k coated would give you good clarity


Sorry to slightly derail the thread but the 2k clear coat stage really seems to bring out the 'transparency' of the part. Where do you buy this 2k coat from? is it a specific manufacturer, and whats the approx cost?

Im also doing some canopies as well as some things i would like to have a glass/crystal finish, but at present just come out almost frosted. 
 

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5 hours ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

Where do you buy this 2k coat from? is it a specific manufacturer, and whats the approx cost?
 

2k clear is standard professional car painter's clear lacquer. It comes as a 2 part system, a tin of lacquer and a tin of hardener. Mixed 2:1, once mixed it needs to be sprayed straight away as it hardens quickly.

 

It should be used very carefully in accordance with the safety sheet, getting it anywhere near your lungs is to be absolutely avoided which is why car painters wear full suits and respirators. Although I am not spraying anywhere near the volume, I wear gloves, glasses and a respirator and spray in a booth. 

 

I hope that doesn't sound too off putting, it is the ultimate wet gloss as it has great build and self levelling properties and car modellers love it. You can buy many brands on ebay such as Osccar for about 20 quid a set. 

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More hiccups..I had a partial print last night with bits stuck on the fep and after cleaning I set the printer going and stopped after 3 layers to check all was well. But alas...

2020-12-01_10-14-48

 

So what was different? The only thing I can think is that last night I topped up the resin - cold, ambient attic temp from the bottle - and although I gave it 20 mins to warm up it may not have been enough. Tonight, i was using resin which had been out of the warmed chamber for a while (while I was cleaning). Could that be it?

 

Also wondered, do build plates become worn at all - lose some of their adhesive powers perhaps, such that the resin will prefer to stick to the fep? 

 

Also - why would the partial failure affect the middle, rather than the edge where the uv is weaker? 

 

All very head scratchy!

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Only  two or three things I can refer to from experiance would be Is this model larger(heavier) than normal? How long was your exposure time? or not enough supports. Cold could have a effect, But I've only had that happen if the room is at 10-15 C (50-60 F) I've never heard of a build plate wearing out, Warping yes, but now wearing out.

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On 12/1/2020 at 4:32 PM, Bangseat said:

Also wondered, do build plates become worn at all - lose some of their adhesive powers perhaps, such that the resin will prefer to stick to the fep? 

Might I recommend this for you:

 

https://whambamsystems.com/fbs-for-resin

 

A buddy of mine and I recently got into this whole resin printing thing and been learning a lot on the fly very quickly with a Photon Mono... and until we added one of these magnetic flex plates, we were getting a lot of failed prints not wanting to stick to the plate. 

Edited by J.C. Bahr
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For those of you with cold temps related issues -that´s not my case- there is a simple trick for pre-heating the resing that you may want to give it a try.

 

Shake your resin well -no matter in the bootle or the VAT-. 

 

Pour it into a plastic disposable cup.

 

Put the cup into a jar with some hot water and leave it for a few minutes. This warms the resin up with the big plus that helps a lot for releasing any air bubbles quickly.

 

Pour the resin back into the VAT and you are good to go.

 

Regards!

Alvaro

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2 hours ago, J.C. Bahr said:

and until we added one of these magnetic flex plates, we were getting a lot of failed prints not wanting to stick to the plate. 

 

I find this rather counterintuitive. While I have no doubt that if works for you then the better please note the purpose of these flex plates is for making easier releasing the parts after the print run and not for ensuring those stick to the build plate.

 

If you ask me, I suspect there were another causes preventing your print runs.  BTW, I have an AC Mono and I have had no single failed print yet and zero issues related to adhesion or release of the prints so in my experience those flex plates are a fix in the search of a problem but others opinions may vary, of course. 🙂

 

Regards!

Alvaro

 

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So many ideas, thanks again guys. 

 

Alvaro, that is simple and genius. I warmed some resin out of the cold bottle in a hot water bath and it was amazing how much the viscosity changed. It changed from something like custard to more like olive oil! I'll see how tonight's print turns out.

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14 hours ago, Alvaro Rodriguez said:

 

I find this rather counterintuitive... not for ensuring those stick to the build plate.

 

Well, with the flex plate scuffed up with sandpaper (which I believe is recommended by Wham Bam), we have not had any more issues with adhesion to the build plate or removal of parts.

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On 11/27/2020 at 4:52 PM, Kushan_Farsight said:


Can you tell me what color/make of resin your using?

I am using a Plant based Clear resin by anycubic on my standard Photon, but your timings are quite a bit different to mine (65s bottom exposures, 8.5s layer exposures, 0.5s light off) However i AM still getting some failures. seeing the large difference between our exposure times, perhaps i need to be giving it a bit more time to cure and a little longer light off time. 

I use the Anycubic grey resin. 

 

My exposure times are high and I'm probably prematurely burning out my screen - I'm on my second since May,  I work on the basis that a screen cost £35, calculate the cost of the failed resin (and screen life and general wear on the printer) and you are probably not far off the cost of your screen - if you are doing large prints.

 

I've just made 2 x 1/100 scale Boeing 737s that would have cost me at least £50 each to buy, not as accurate and with less detail, and a 1/72 Atlas/Gemini rocket - god knows how much a kit of that would have cost  so I'm happy to spread the cost of the screen over those models alone.

 

The setting I listed are what I use for the large prints, the 737 wings are 160mm, for smaller items I reduce the exposure times down to 65 secs on the bottom layers and 12 secs on the layers but I haven't always had a 100% success rate at those settings.

 

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On 05/12/2020 at 02:01, J.C. Bahr said:

with the flex plate scuffed up with sandpaper we have not had any more issues with adhesion

 

That makes sense but I suspect you may have had the same result if you sanded the buildplate in the first place.

 

Having some light scrachtes in the surface of the build plate increases the prints adhesion, that´s granted. But I have had no need to do that in my original AC Photon -that has an stock anodized build plate with some grainy finish already- or in the AC Mono that has a brushed and polished buildplate either. 

 

Unless your build plate is not completely flat -there are cases of users reporting such issues- I would say build plate adhesion issues are related to builplate leveling as the first and most common cause followed to bottom layer exposure times many often.

 

Regards!

Alvaro

 

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