Confused - Order of operations

[TrackHawk]

Hello all 

 

I'm somewhat new to modeling, I'm on my fifth AFV and still very confused on how to get to the next plateau.

 

Here's where I'm stuck. When watching almost any modeling video, everyone making more advanced looking models are leaving off different components out of the build so they can paint them separately. I understand why this is being done, and the outcome is much nicer than trying to paint the whole thing assembled. But, what none of these videos show is how are these then being glued together once they're painted? I get it that you can probably use CA to glue painted parts, or you can scrape some paint and use model cement, but what do most people actually do? What is the nest order to build / paint / build

 

For the tank I just built, because I lack the skills, I again put every piece on while building and had the bright idea to mask things while I painted the body. that didn't work so well. So now I'm back painting little tools and mufflers while they are already on the body and it's going to look like crap.

 

I want to be able to paint sub-assemblies and tools and mufflers and put hem all together after, but not sure how to get there.

 

Thanks!

Edited November 23, 2020 by TrackHawk

[Pete in Lincs]

@TrackHawk Welcome to the site. I can see why you are getting frustrated over this. Part of the answer is, take your time.

Pre-planning is a must. Study the parts and instructions over a coffee (or two) Which bits, such as tools, can be painted on the sprue?

Is there a sprue chart in the instructions? use that to note what you will need to cut off now or later.

Mark those later parts with a sharpie on the sprue so you don't lose track of them. You can paint them anytime.

When they are cut off near the end, there should be just a small bit to touch up with paint. Don't paint the surface to be glued, if at all possible. 

What main parts of the kit can be built and painted before main assembly? And which main parts can be left off until the end?

What glue are you using? have you tried Tamiya extra thin? Hold two pieces of plastic together, touch the glue brush to the joint. job done.

Yes, you can use CA, but usually only when sticking metal to plastic, for instance.

Do you brush or spray the paint? If using a brush, can you or do you need to, thin the paint? 

Mostly though, chill, it's not a race, and your skills will improve with each kit you build.

I hope this helps, Pete

 

 

 

[TrackHawk]

14 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said:

@TrackHawk Don't paint the surface to be glued, if at all possible. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks! I think this is the answer I was looking for. For me what's been confusing is I've actually watched many videos of people painting things like mufflers, tools, engines, and so on, and never once saw them leave anything unpainted nor did I see them glue those parts on. To me it's been a mystery. I guess my only question might still be, in those cases where they are painting an entire sub piece, do you think they're then scraping off some of the paint? so they can use thin cement?

[Pete in Lincs]

Try this, make a loop of masking tape and stick, say, a shovel onto it. 

Now, mostly, the parts of it that you can see will be the parts that need paint. The tape will hold it while you paint it. 

The mufflers, for instance, could be done the same way, or, stick tape onto the mating surface. That way the glue will work.

Scraping off the paint is usually only done when it's dripped or run onto the mating surface. Or haven't thought it through. 

When spraying primer, for instance, the areas to be glued must be masked off. Either tape or liquid mask. Or you're faced with scraping it!

Here's an idea, before you glue anything on, put it in position & see what touches what. Mark the area where the glue goes with a red sharpie.

Don't paint that bit! 

As I say, take your time, study the parts and instructions. Usually they show sub assemblies before the main assembly.

 

[TrackHawk]

1 hour ago, Pete in Lincs said:

Try this, make a loop of masking tape and stick, say, a shovel onto it. 

Now, mostly, the parts of it that you can see will be the parts that need paint. The tape will hold it while you paint it. 

The mufflers, for instance, could be done the same way, or, stick tape onto the mating surface. That way the glue will work.

Scraping off the paint is usually only done when it's dripped or run onto the mating surface. Or haven't thought it through. 

When spraying primer, for instance, the areas to be glued must be masked off. Either tape or liquid mask. Or you're faced with scraping it!

Here's an idea, before you glue anything on, put it in position & see what touches what. Mark the area where the glue goes with a red sharpie.

Don't paint that bit! 

As I say, take your time, study the parts and instructions. Usually they show sub assemblies before the main assembly.

 

That's extremely helpful, just what I needed to know!! Thanks!

[Ray_W]

On 11/23/2020 at 11:44 PM, TrackHawk said:

 

I want to be able to paint sub-assemblies and tools and mufflers and put hem all together after, but not sure how to get there.

Sorry a little late to the party.

 

I paint very little before hand. As Pete @Pete in Lincs has said planning is key. I find with all the detail and lots of PE in kits these days, you need your "on-kit" detail painting skills.

 

This is my current M3 Grant build. Still working on it, but getting very close to the painting stage. So many parts glued with CA and still not finished. In my view, best glued in place before the hull painting. You could of course glue the pioneer tool fixings in place then after painting come back and slide the tools in place, carefully do your tie straps and finish.  I just prefer to get that PE gluing out of the way. Easy at this stage to remove and reverse that rear tow rope retaining bracket that is around the wrong way.

 

 

I will end up with a few sub-assemblies to paint prior to final assembly. These being the hull (and its running gear), turret, return idlers (so I can adjust the track tension), tracks, exhaust system (easy to do separately on this kit) and some crew personal effects. Even the tow rope, about to be fitted, will be glued in place, painted with the hull and then detail painted in-situ.

 

My plan was to leave the side skirts off till after painting to ease the fitting of the tracks, but I changed my mind as they are fixed along a thin butt join. Extremely difficult to do after painting. So I have glued it in place ensuring the drive sprocket rotates so I can easily feed the track through. Note that any hatches to be posed open are just glued in place with PVA at this stage. I could of pre-painted the wheels. In this kit the access is good so I will do that later and they do rotate making the job easier.

 

There is still so much more PE to go on. Headlight protectors, gear baskets, side rails, tie brackets. Post detail painting will be necessary.

 

 

And yet, I have to admit, that since I went to the largely assemble before painting, I have come to enjoy the builds greatly. It is fantastic to rip into a build and get it done with a little planning so you do not block yourself into a corner. Persevere with the "on-kit" detail painting. It is a useful skill. 

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

[nheather]

I too have this dilemma, especially with tracks and wheels.

 

Do I assemble everything first, you will get a neater and stronger bond that way.

 

Or do I paint the wheels and tracks first as that will be easier and neater to paint.

 

And what if the tracks are half hidden fenders and skirts. Do I leave them off until the end, it’ll be a lot easier but then you have got a nasty glue jointed on your painted work to sort out.

 

The one saving grace with AFVs is weathering (mud, dirt and grime) which can hide a lot of sins.

 

By the way, I don’t have answers, I don’t think there are any, just personal preferences.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

 

 

[Modelholic]

Sometimes you can slip a thin piece of card between the Axe handle (e.g) and hull to mask the main body. With a little forethought you can shape the card with scissors to accommodate tie-downs and whatnots.

Tom

[TrackHawk]

On 11/28/2020 at 5:01 AM, Ray_W said:

Sorry a little late to the party.

 

I paint very little before hand. As Pete @Pete in Lincs has said planning is key. I find with all the detail and lots of PE in kits these days, you need your "on-kit" detail painting skills.

 

This is my current M3 Grant build. Still working on it, but getting very close to the painting stage. So many parts glued with CA and still not finished. In my view, best glued in place before the hull painting. You could of course glue the pioneer tool fixings in place then after painting come back and slide the tools in place, carefully do your tie straps and finish.  I just prefer to get that PE gluing out of the way. Easy at this stage to remove and reverse that rear tow rope retaining bracket that is around the wrong way.

 

 

I will end up with a few sub-assemblies to paint prior to final assembly. These being the hull (and its running gear), turret, return idlers (so I can adjust the track tension), tracks, exhaust system (easy to do separately on this kit) and some crew personal effects. Even the tow rope, about to be fitted, will be glued in place, painted with the hull and then detail painted in-situ.

 

My plan was to leave the side skirts off till after painting to ease the fitting of the tracks, but I changed my mind as they are fixed along a thin butt join. Extremely difficult to do after painting. So I have glued it in place ensuring the drive sprocket rotates so I can easily feed the track through. Note that any hatches to be posed open are just glued in place with PVA at this stage. I could of pre-painted the wheels. In this kit the access is good so I will do that later and they do rotate making the job easier.

 

There is still so much more PE to go on. Headlight protectors, gear baskets, side rails, tie brackets. Post detail painting will be necessary.

 

 

And yet, I have to admit, that since I went to the largely assemble before painting, I have come to enjoy the builds greatly. It is fantastic to rip into a build and get it done with a little planning so you do not block yourself into a corner. Persevere with the "on-kit" detail painting. It is a useful skill. 

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Ray! Very helpful. It's funny, I'm working on a new kit, a Flak 88mm gun from Tamiya, and really took my time studying and planning and found that even though I did paint a few small pieces first, I could have just as easily painted them after too. Some though it made sense to do before.  As Pete said, all about planning. 

[Ray_W]

29 minutes ago, TrackHawk said:

 

 

Thanks Ray! Very helpful. It's funny, I'm working on a new kit, a Flak 88mm gun from Tamiya, and really took my time studying and planning and found that even though I did paint a few small pieces first, I could have just as easily painted them after too. Some though it made sense to do before.  As Pete said, all about planning. 

 

If you have not seen his videos on YouTube, then it is worth watching Andy at Andy's Hobby Headquarters. His latest on the new Tamiya Marder 1 is very worthwhile for a number of reasons. It is a kit he just about fully builds before painting with the exception of a couple of tools (his separate video on his painting technique for tools is also worthwhile). It is worth seeing how he paints his wheels (or does not). No super fine paint work needed. With all our current post effects such as washes and pigments, and the list goes on, it is just not necessary for a great effect. Note that he builds and glues in place the very nicely detailed 7.5 cm PaK 40 before painting.

 

 

I am also back into my MiniArt M3 Grant and tomorrow will post the next stage in the MTO Group Build. A heap of brass in place and just about everything on the kit before painting. I plan to show my painting stages. If I can get an effect close to what Andy achieves then I will be very happy. 

 

Ray

 

 

[TrackHawk]

36 minutes ago, Ray_W said:

 

If you have not seen his videos on YouTube, then it is worth watching Andy at Andy's Hobby Headquarters. His latest on the new Tamiya Marder 1 is very worthwhile for a number of reasons. It is a kit he just about fully builds before painting with the exception of a couple of tools (his separate video on his painting technique for tools is also worthwhile). It is worth seeing how he paints his wheels (or does not). No super fine paint work needed. With all our current post effects such as washes and pigments, and the list goes on, it is just not necessary for a great effect. Note that he builds and glues in place the very nicely detailed 7.5 cm PaK 40 before painting.

 

 

I am also back into my MiniArt M3 Grant and tomorrow will post the next stage in the MTO Group Build. A heap of brass in place and just about everything on the kit before painting. I plan to show my painting stages. If I can get an effect close to what Andy achieves then I will be very happy. 

 

Ray

 

 

 

I'll take a look later, thanks!!