Stuch88 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Hi all. I'm working on a Spitfire Mk VIII that is going to be displayed having nosed over on landing. If the pilot landed with the canopy open could it be locked open? If no lock then would it slide closed on being tilted downwards at 45 degrees? If so would pilot pull the red ball and eject canopy or slide it open? If slid up would it slide back with the door left open? In a nutshell. Open, closed or off altogether? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) The door has a "just barely open" position that keeps the hood open. I never really thought about what the pilot would do next in a situation such as you describe! Me, I'd probably fling the door open to get out and get whanged on the head by the hood. Here's a shot with hood still back and door open. Note how the tailwheel "falls" due to gravity. And another, but this time the tailwheel is still in trail. Edited November 16, 2020 by gingerbob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuch88 Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) That would be me.! I have read accounts of using the door to jam the canopy which would imply no lock. It seemed like simple question but there is a lot of variables. Could it, would it, slide forward with the door open? Were they that free running? If it did go forward with the door open, would it derail the other side? Edited November 16, 2020 by Stuch88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Both photos show that the canopy does stay locked open when slid back. Which doesn't answer the question of how the pilot treats it when landing - or landing badly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuch88 Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 Thanks. I have found a couple of pics showing a similar scenario and the canopy is back. I may have been over thinking it as I was pondering on it when I was woken by the dog in the middle of the night. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Did you look at the two that I provided links for? (Click on the underlined text, in case you didn't recognize them as links.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) My understanding is that it was common practice, especially if in any doubt, to lock the canopies open before landing to avoid being trapped. Standard too on all Navy aircraft landing on. That implies some sort of catch existed. In later aircraft like blown hood Mustangs, the emergency landing drill included canopy jettison because it was unlikely to remain open in a crash. Also many pilots switched off the radio before landing, possibly to ensure the headphone leads were free in case of a fast exit. That led to several accidents where late calls to the pilot were missed. Also, a canopy latch back is a safety thing - many pilots stuck their heads over the side to get a better view on landing, around that long nose. Last thing you want on a bumpy runway is a heavy canopy sliding forward on you as you manoeuvre! Edited November 16, 2020 by John B (Sc) additions 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuch88 Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, gingerbob said: Did you look at the two that I provided links for? (Click on the underlined text, in case you didn't recognize them as links.) Yes I have now. They don't show as links on my mobile but does on the laptop. They do seem to answer my question. Thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Having checked with some others, I am told the pilot's notes for the Spitfire Ia and II note that the canopy can be locked in either open or closed position, but not at any intermediate. I suspect the vertical bolts either side at mid span of the blown section fit into slots at either position. Caution, air pressure holds the canopy closed at high speed, making it hard to open then. It is also noted that on climb out 'at leisure' close the emergency door fully, then close the canopy. This to allow for folk using the door for better view on take-off. Have done the same in a Stampe to get a glimpse forrards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelh Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) From a Spitfire IX manual: "OTHER CONTROLS 30. Cockpit door.—The cockpit door is fitted with a two- position catch which allows it to be partly opened, thus preventing the sliding hood from coming forward in the event of a crash or forced landing. It will be found that the catch operates more easily when the aircraft is airborne than when on the ground. " It also notes that tear drop canopies are opened and closed with a crank. Releasing the crank locks the canopy at any position. Seems they sorted the issue with the later low back Spits. Edited November 16, 2020 by noelh 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglierating Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 On 11/16/2020 at 3:10 PM, John B (Sc) said: My understanding is that it was common practice, especially if in any doubt, to lock the canopies open before landing to avoid being trapped. Standard too on all Navy aircraft landing on. That implies some sort of catch existed. In later aircraft like blown hood Mustangs, the emergency landing drill included canopy jettison because it was unlikely to remain open in a crash. Also many pilots switched off the radio before landing, possibly to ensure the headphone leads were free in case of a fast exit. That led to several accidents where late calls to the pilot were missed. Also, a canopy latch back is a safety thing - many pilots stuck their heads over the side to get a better view on landing, around that long nose. Last thing you want on a bumpy runway is a heavy canopy sliding forward on you as you manoeuvre! I interestingly and I cant say for other a/c the spring mechanism for a sea harrier canopy was a bungee elastic....cant remember exactly how it was assembled....Grubber stuff but I remember a cab landing on and two knives were obtained from the galley and one wedged in each side to force the catches up to release canopy and the pilot.Obviously in an emergency he would detonate his mdc or bang out. Nuffin to do with Spitfire canopies but interesting how simple things are. Well I thought so 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Most interesting,'junglierating'. Simple is often best. The KISS principle works well in much of engineering - 'Keep it Simple, Stupid'. Or as Sir Sidney Camm (chief designer of the Harrier) famously said - 'simplify and add more lightness'. (It is claimed he actually said 'simplicate and add more lightness' which has more of a ring to it...) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 Well, I got it, Eric Brown in his book Seafire From The Cockpit So, he writes on page 60, about the approach, about limited forward vis, the hood was opened and held back by a notched door. But forget it, when you snapped wire, ther hood slid forward rapidly and you got a painful reminder.... Everything is said, now! Happy modelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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