Group Build policy discussion

[klr]

Re the Bunfight Byes poll thread:

 

There are two very similar options, namely "5 below the cut-off" and "5 votes below the cut-off". That's at least going by the final votes for 2021. These will effectively split the "limited byes" vote, making it almost certain that one of the other two "extreme"* options in the poll will win. And going by the voting so far, it's quite clear which that will be. If the current votes for the two "limited byes" votes were combined, they would still be less than those for the current leading option. But they would at least present a credible alternative.

 

*As in "start all over again", or "keep the status quo" (couldn't resist that!)

 

Also, 6 of the 7 polls (basically, all bar the last) will potentially have a significant effect on the GB landscape. The matrix of possible combinations is huge: 3 x 3 x 3 x 3 x 4 x 3, or 972. Some of those may have unforeseen consequences. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[JOCKNEY]

Apologies for the very late arrival of any comments.

 

What I love about GB's is the diversity of builds, the more broad the topic the better. The Classic GB's allows anything produced by that manufacturer within the period of time set. This range of build topics is further enhanced by shamelessly posting in the various sections on BM to encourage wider participation from those areas usually underrepresented in the GBs ie Armour, Maritime and Vehicles.  My success rate is poor, but I refuse to be put off.

 

I suppose this flys in the face of the principal of STGBs, but if they are going to be supported by enough members votes then that's democracy in action.

 

Finally, numbers and duration of GBs 

 

I am always struggling to finish builds in the time allowed and split between too many topics I want to participate in. If there were less to choose from and they were longer in duration my chances of finishing them must therefore increase  !

 

Finally and completely biased, the Classic GB could be allowed to run for either 6 months or a year and rotate them between manufacturers.

 

Cheers Pat

 

[Angus Tura]

I pretty much agree with what Pat just said.

 

GBs. I think the selection is pretty good: of the nine "winners" next year seven would allow air, sea, land and civilian subjects. I'd like to see fewer builds which might last for longer? I know I'm a chronic non-finisher, but I don't think I'm alone. I think seven sounds like a good number.

 

STGBs. I think these are largely OK too.  They are always going to be slanted towards aircraft I suspect. I wonder whether it would be better if all of them started six months, or some other set time, after they achieve the right number of votes. I suspect that the group of people building for one STGBs might vary quite a lot from the group building for another. In that case, multiple STGBs going on contemporaneously would not be much of a problem.

 

I would say that I'm pretty new here and have thought that Group Builds is the most accessible bit of Britmodeller. So, to a degree anyway, I'd say it isn't very broken and doesn't need much fixing. 

 

Thanks to all those running this show,

 

Alan

[gingerbob]

Some comments:

 

I definitely wish for STGBs to be kept separate from "GBs", except that the "Single Type" should perhaps be a bit elastic, such as "Lockheed Twins" including 10, 12, 14, Hudson, 18, PV-1, PV-2 - but NOT P-38, because while a twin by Lockheed, it is clearly not in the same design "family".  Likewise P2V, and the P-3 is right out because that's a twin-twin!

 

I'm really not a big fan of the "GBs" as we've been seeing them- for example when I looked at the vote choices for the next year I kinda shrugged and figured once they were scheduled I'd see if something caught my fancy when the time came.  Often they are so diverse that they don't really even seem like a GROUP build to me, just a group of modellers building stuff.  I don't really see why these should have a longer window than STGBs, either, because in either case you're building a model (or in some cases, more than one).

 

One suggestion I would make, however, and this could be done regardless of how STGBs are scheduled, is to avoid having "similar" types too close.  For example, if there's a Corsair STGB and the next one to clear the hurdle is a Hellcat STGB, keep it in abeyance until something more different, like say "MiG-25 STGB" can be inserted in between.  I may want to build all three (not likely!), but a bit of diversity might help to keep the enthusiasm going.  I suppose we should also then try to avoid having "Corsair STGB", "Carriers in the Pacific", and "Things named after pirates for $500 please, Alex" running atop each other or in close sequence.

 

I do agree that you don't want things pushing too far into the future- it is hard to get very excited about participating in a theme that you really like... two years from now.  Heck, half the time I see a discussion about some possible future GB, I feel the urge to get X kit out of the stash right now and start pawing at it!

[Enzo the Magnificent]

The BM GB Massive has spoken!   

 

The rules for future GBs will be as follows.

 

There will be seven each of GBs and STGBs anually.  In addition there will be three Blitzbuilds and one Classic GB.  However, the GB moderator reserves the right to chuck in something historically significant depending on the circumstances.

 

The qualification criteria will remain as current.  30 for GBs and 25 for STGBs.

 

Once a GB or STGB has been run, there will be a period of three years before the GB can be run again.  This means that lobbying an occur after two years.

 

GBs and STGBs will compete for a place in seperate annual bunfights.    Those STGBs already nominated for 2022 will stand.

 

Those GBs and STGBs which do not make the cut in the respective bunfights will have to start from scratch in the following year.  There will be no byes.

 

Each member of the GB massive will get 4 votes for each bunfight.

 

Each of the bunfights will last for two weeks, commencing on 1 November.

 

 

 

[Chrisj2003]

36 minutes ago, Enzo Matrix said:

something historically significant

 Would 18 September 1947 count? Leading to a 75th anniv in 2022? 🛫

 

Chris

[Enzo the Magnificent]

15 minutes ago, Chrisj2003 said:

 Would 18 September 1947 count? Leading to a 75th anniv in 2022? 🛫

 

I don't see how Russ Abbott's birthday is historically significant...   

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, Enzo Matrix said:

The qualification criteria will remain as current.  35 for GBs and 25 for STGBs.

I thought the current numbers were 30 & 25 respectively ? Though if we want 35 thats not an issue just confused. 

[Chrisj2003]

More 🇺🇸

 

Chris

[Enzo the Magnificent]

1 minute ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I thought the current numbers were 30 & 25 respectively ? Though if we want 35 thats not an issue just confused. 

 

I'm now going to do my best Captain Mainwaring impression and say "Yes, I wondered who would be the first to notice that".    

 

 

The correct number for GBs is of course 30. 

[jackroadkill]

2 hours ago, Enzo Matrix said:

 

I don't see how Russ Abbott's birthday is historically significant...   

You would if you were Russ Abbott.

[Robert Stuart]

Both bun fights in November?
Thought there was some discussion of having the STGB bun fight six months off the GB?

OK, no matter, which ever dates suit the GB Moderator

[vppelt68]

I like the results and the fine tuning that´ll take place. The GBverse didn´t tremble, not even shake or got stirred, but a twist was added to it 🙂. Thanks Enzo! V-P

[JohnT]

Can I maybe pose a question?

I build in 1/32 mostly and find that projects nearly always come third or fourth to life so if I try and participate in a GB I’m lucky to get the cockpit done before time is called. It’s still an incentive to make a start though. 
 

So I got wondering might there be scope for a slow burn GB every now and then for projects that require more time. I’ve not thought this through in any detail but maybe qualification requirements are large scale for subject matter eg 1/200 for ships etc

 

Just wondering if there is any appetite for this and if it could be done without messing with the present arrangements 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

47 minutes ago, JohnT said:

Can I maybe pose a question?

I build in 1/32 mostly and find that projects nearly always come third or fourth to life so if I try and participate in a GB I’m lucky to get the cockpit done before time is called. It’s still an incentive to make a start though. 
 

So I got wondering might there be scope for a slow burn GB every now and then for projects that require more time. I’ve not thought this through in any detail but maybe qualification requirements are large scale for subject matter eg 1/200 for ships etc

 

Just wondering if there is any appetite for this and if it could be done without messing with the present arrangements 

Well as you say you can make a start, no honestly my philosophy is this. Start your build, have fun, and if you finish great. If not as long as the time spent was enjoyable then its worth it. Now I have zero problems with doing a large scale build. I would love to go to town super detailing a 1/200 or 1/350 ship. That or a 1/24 Typhoon or P-47D over a length of time. Can it be done in a group build time frame/structure remains to be seen ? Maybe if enough people showed interest we could petition Enzo Natrix to give us a one off large scale build for say 6 months or even a year ? But it would require a definite number of interested parties and commitment. 
 

Dennis

[Tim R-T-C]

I have found, due to life and work committments, that I have managed to start but not finish several projects in GBs in the past few months.

 

Perhaps some more flexibility could be made in the group galleries, allowing projects started during the 3 month period to be entered even after the GB has closed, this would allow people to make longer and more complex projects.

[JohnT]

3 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Well as you say you can make a start, no honestly my philosophy is this. Start your build, have fun, and if you finish great. If not as long as the time spent was enjoyable then its worth it. Now I have zero problems with doing a large scale build. I would love to go to town super detailing a 1/200 or 1/350 ship. That or a 1/24 Typhoon or P-47D over a length of time. Can it be done in a group build time frame/structure remains to be seen ? Maybe if enough people showed interest we could petition Enzo Natrix to give us a one off large scale build for say 6 months or even a year ? But it would require a definite number of interested parties and commitment. 
 

Dennis

 

 

Thanks Dennis - good points and worth thinking over.  My thoughts are pretty open, random and not thought through so all comment is welcome here.  There are probably reasons why its not a good idea or how it may cause other issues  that I've not thought of at all

 

49 minutes ago, Tim R-T-C said:

I have found, due to life and work committments, that I have managed to start but not finish several projects in GBs in the past few months.

 

Perhaps some more flexibility could be made in the group galleries, allowing projects started during the 3 month period to be entered even after the GB has closed, this would allow people to make longer and more complex projects.

 

Tim - Same problem as me.  I think we cant expect GB's to be left open after the closing date though as thats unfair on entrants who get finished in the time allotted.  That was why I thought of the slow burn concept for maybe one to allow bigger longer term projects to participate.

 

I tried to do the Stuka GB with a Trumpy 1/32 B and a shed load of aftermarket and got the cockpit started and almost finished but that was it.  Not even enough to post up something under construction far less RFI

 

Come to think on it we have Blitzbuilds at the other end of the time scale.

 

Id like to know what other folks think

 

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

8 hours ago, JohnT said:

I think we cant expect GB's to be left open after the closing date though as thats unfair on entrants who get finished in the time allotted. 

To be fair the group build itself is left open for a couple of reason's. One for people to keep working on projects and two theyre open for leaving comments if someone us looking for answers or sees it while searching for something. To be fair to those that finish on or before closing of the build the Gallery is locked so they cant enter it after the date. 

[Enzo the Magnificent]

On 08/11/2021 at 11:54, Tim R-T-C said:

I have found, due to life and work committments, that I have managed to start but not finish several projects in GBs in the past few months.

 

Perhaps some more flexibility could be made in the group galleries, allowing projects started during the 3 month period to be entered even after the GB has closed, this would allow people to make longer and more complex projects.

 

Now that is a very good idea!    The gallery closes at the end of the GB for poll reasons, but there is no reason it cannot reopen after the end of the poll. 

 

As @Corsairfoxfouruncle has pointed out, the GB forum stays open so that people can continue their builds.

 

Anothe option is to email me at the end of the GB and I can move the build thread into the WIP area, if that's what you wish.

 

 

[theplasticsurgeon]

12 hours ago, Enzo Matrix said:

 

Now that is a very good idea!    The gallery closes at the end of the GB for poll reasons, but there is no reason it cannot reopen after the end of the poll. 

 

Or even as soon as the Host has set up the poll.  The list of poll candidates if frozen at that point in time.

[Chrisj2003]

15 hours ago, Enzo Matrix said:

the GB forum stays open so that people can continue their builds

 suits me... almost every time. 😀

 

Chris

[Toryu]

Why is their no poll option yet on either of this (2021) year's groupbuilds - will they be opened at the end of the year or is this just my browser?

[PlaStix]

33 minutes ago, Toryu said:

Why is their no poll option yet on either of this (2021) year's groupbuilds - will they be opened at the end of the year or is this just my browser?

Oh dear.......I'm afraid you missed the voting then! It was only for two weeks this year - the first two weeks of November.

You can find the thread and results of the voting here:

Kind regards,

Stix

[Toryu]

1 hour ago, PlaStix said:

Oh dear.......I'm afraid you missed the voting then!

 

Thanks Stix. Not the bunfight voting - I took that. I meant the poll for your favourite model of the various groupbuilds that took place this year.

[Enzo the Magnificent]

19 minutes ago, Toryu said:

 

Thanks Stix. Not the bunfight voting - I took that. I meant the poll for your favourite model of the various groupbuilds that took place this year.

 

I don't think we've ever done that.  There are individual polls in each GB forum but we couldn't do a single poll for the whole year as the forum software could not handle that volume of entries.