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Group Build policy discussion


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This year's Groupbuild bunfight has had the most number of entries ever!   It just goes to show how popular groupbuilds are.

 

During the bunfight poll itself there have been a number of questions raised.  They all boiled down to "Why do we do it that way?"   In each case I have considered the answer, which in most cases is "Because that's the way we've always done it."

 

That may have been a valid answer when groupbuilds first started and were a niche area on Britmodeller. However, that is no longer the case and therefore the answer is no longer a valid one. 

 

With that in mind, I would like to poll the opinions of the BM GB massive and come up with an accepted policy or maybe a constitution.

 

I have a number of proposals to make.  Once I have got them all up in this thread, I'll open the thread to discussion.  My proposals are not set in stone.  Please make suggestions for changes as you see fit. 

 

We'll have until the end of the year for discussion (unless we all agree to go to the polls early).  Polling will be throughout January.

 

After we have come up with a widely accepted constitution, I don't envisage that we would make amendments to it in the foreseeable future - but we can even discuss what that period would be.  :D 

 

 

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Topic 1  -  Annual number of groupbuilds

 

The calendar for next year is pretty full.  I have attenmpted to make sure that we get all GBs completed pretty much within the year.  This has led to a fairly busy period mid-year with up to 8 GBs and STGBs running concurrently.  This could lead to GB burnout amongst the BM massive.  There are 9 each of GBs and STGBs planned for next year.  We really need some breathing space to allow in special GBs like next year's Gulf War GB. 

 

So, the proposals are:

  • Have 7 each of GBs and STGBs
  • Maintain the status quo

Please feel free to make your own proposals.

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Topic 2 - GB and STGB thresholds

 

Currently, a GB requires 30 people to show interest before it goes into the bunfight.   STGBs require 25.   Even so, we ended up with 26 GBs in the bunfight this year.

 

Do we raise the thresholds for the bunfight or keep them the same?   Do we have the same threshold for GBs and STGBs?

 

The proposals are

  • Raise both thresholds by 10
  • Raise both thresholds to 40
  • Rockin' All Over The World
  • Haha 4
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Topic 3 - GB repeats

 

Some subjects are perennially popular.  We currently have a policy of at least one year must pass before a GB can be run again.   I know that the NATO v Warsaw Pact GBs seemingly break that policy, but if you look at them as a whole they are a popular GB theme that lasted for four years - maybe five.  If we ever have an extended theme proposal that looks like it could be as popular, then we can discuss it again.

 

Proposals are:

  • Three years between nominations
  • Two years between nominations
  • Caroline

 

 

 

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Topic 4 - STGB allocations

 

The current method of allocation for STGBs is to add them to the calendar as soon as they reach the threshold.  There is no bunfight for STGBs.  Why do we do it that way?  Well, because we've always done it that way.  :shrug: 

 

Unfortunately it means that the STGB calender gets filled up years in advance.  When it goes too far, I have to put a moratorium on STGB proposals for a year.  We may be reaching that stage again as all the 2021 STGB slots are taken, together with two of the 2022 slots.

 

Proposals from the dialogue are shown in red.

 

Proposals are:

  • Move the STGBs in line with GBs.  There will be an STGB bunfight for 2022, However, the currently nominated STGBs will stand.
  • Continue with the current plan untill all slots are filled for 2022.  There will be an STGB bunfight for 2023.
  • Scrap STGBs.  GBs for single types will be allowed but theyu take their chances in a bunfight just like every other GB
  • Mean Girl

 

 

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Topic 5 - Bunfight byes

 

Currently a GB proposal that hasn't made the grade in the bunfight gets an automatic bye into the next year's bunfight (unless it was on a bye already in which case it has to start from scratch).

 

That worked well for this year, with just 7 byes.  Under the same policy, next year we would have 13 byes, which is enough for a whole bunfight on its own!

 

Proposals are:

  • No byes.  Any GB that doesn't make the grade starts from scratch in the next year.
  • The five GBs below the cutoff point get a bye into the next year
  • All GBs which are within ten *** open for discussion *** votes of the cutoff get a bye
  • Paper Plane

 

 

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Topic 6 - Bunfight vote allocations

 

Currently, we all get the same number of votes are there are available slots.  Do you still want this?

 

Proposals are:

  • 75% of the available slots
  • 60% of the available slots
  • Down The Dustpipe

 

 

 

Topic 7 - Bunfight durations

 

How long should the bunfight last?  Currently it is one calendar month, throughout November.  

 

Proposals are:

  • Two weeks
  • One week
  • In The Army Now

 

 

 

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So...  those are the topics.  We aren't restricted to those topics however.  If you want to raise a burning issue, please do.  Likewise, please let me have your comments on whether we should modify or add proposals.

 

Let the chaos commence!  :lol:  

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Personally I would like to see a third category of group build added: a category for wide appeal, small project group builds. Example for this would be the Less Than a Tenner GB, KUTA GBs, blitzbuilds (these are a fun forum tradition which should be automatically through but are a good example of that I'd put in this category). These are great fun and many will participate but I would rather not see them taking so many slots from more specific interest ones. 

So under this system you'd have:

  • STGBs (eg lancaster, spitfire, bf109, b17 etc)
  • Specific interest GBs (high wing GB, V Force, Falklands, Bristol Aeroplane Company GB etc
  • Wide Appeal GBs (less than a tenner, kit you built as a kid, blitzbuilds, etc)
Edited by Adam Poultney
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5 minutes ago, Adam Poultney said:

Personally I would like to see a third category of group build added: a category for wide appeal, small project group builds. Example for this would be the Less Than a Tenner GB, KUTA GBs, blitzbuilds (these are a fun forum tradition which should be automatically through but are a good example of that I'd put in this category). These are great fun and many will participate but I would rather not see them taking so many slots from more specific interest ones. 

 

That's a good point, and one that I had just thought to address with a further topic.

 

Should we have a reserved slot each year for a Classic GB?  This would certainly have a wide appeal.   Recently we have had GBs devoted to Airfix, Matchbox and Obsolete Kits.  They have all been wildly popular.  This year's Heller GB is heading in the same direction.

 

The KUTA GB and the Blitzbuilds would stay in the mix. 

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Just now, Enzo Matrix said:

 

That's a good point, and one that I had just thought to address with a further topic.

 

Should we have a reserved slot each year for a Classic GB?  This would certainly have a wide appeal.   Recently we have had GBs devoted to Airfix, Matchbox and Obsolete Kits.  They have all been wildly popular.  This year's Heller GB is heading in the same direction.

Yes I like that idea. Certainly to go in what I would call the wide appeal category, but guaranteeing one each year could make a fun forum tradition. 

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A fair bit to digest and think about in there, but one thought did spring to mind the other day when I was excited at a couple of the STGBs I saw mentioned was that it turned out that they are so far off, it seemed almost pointless planning for them. Waiting two years to build a particular kit or possible changes of interest or even no longer being around here for any reason seem to make them a bit... not sure what the word is, but kind of too far off to really care about.

 

So perhaps a yearly STGB bunfight is a good idea. I wonder if some categories would be good too so that ships, armour  and cars at least get a shout. Otherwise I’m sure it’d be all aircraft.

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Arrrrr Enzo????  :blink:

 

Are we meant to vote on these proposals/ideas or just chat about them? 

 

Good luck keeping track of all those ideas.........herding cats will be easier! 

 

I'll make my choices easy.......... (the only time you'll get a break from me! :D)

 

  • Have 7 each of GBs and STGBs
  • Rockin' All Over The World - Status Quo?  :doh:  you really are showing your age!
  • Two years between nominations - help keep everything fresh
  • Move the STGBs in line with GBs.  There will be an STGB bunfight for 2022, However, the currently nominated STGBs will stand. - would be awesome, more bloodshed!
  • All GBs which are within ten *** open for discussion *** votes of the cutoff get a bye - Though I reckon only the top 2 losers
  • 75% of the available slots - would make your votes more important, currently we average only 7 votes from the 9 available to us so wasting 2 votes
  • 1 Special GB /year

+ proposed GB's only stay in the GB Chat area for 2 years them archived.

 

Think this would be enough to re-fresh the GB/STGB area for a start.

 

Plus we do need a total spring clean/tidy up of the GB Chat area and completely start from fresh.

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3 minutes ago, Filler said:

 I wonder if some categories would be good too so that ships, armour  and cars at least get a shout. Otherwise I’m sure it’d be all aircraft.

 

Again, that is up for discussion.    A few years ago STGBs were exclusively aircraft oriented.  Thankfully that changed and we have had numerous AFV STGBs.  Next year we have our first car STGB, for the Ford Mustang.

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7 minutes ago, trickyrich said:

Arrrrr Enzo????  :blink:

 

Are we meant to vote on these proposals/ideas or just chat about them?

 

Just chat for the moment.  We will vote on all the proposals in the new year.

 

 

7 minutes ago, trickyrich said:

Plus we do need a total spring clean/tidy up of the GB Chat area and completely start from fresh.

 

nodnodnod  That will be along as soon as I can get my head above water.  :) 

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1 minute ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I was wondering about that because there were an awful lot of proposals but near enough spots to vote ? 

 

We might have to do a seperate poll for each topic. 

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48 minutes ago, Enzo Matrix said:

That worked well for this year, with just 7 byes.

I hope you weren't including the British armor in that number ? I did kill the original build off and started new after last years bunfight. So by current rules it would/should get a bye again. If we change the rules that is fine as well.

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51 minutes ago, Enzo Matrix said:

The five GBs below the cutoff point get a bye into the next year

Id say if they were within a vote or two of making it, they should get a bye. As theres a few hovering on the same number and its just the amount of slots preventing them from getting in ? 

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7 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Id say if they were within a vote or two of making it, they should get a bye. As theres a few hovering on the same number and its just the amount of slots preventing them from getting in ? 

 

Usually if there are ties for last place above the cut off, then both GBs get through.  I just have to squeeze in an extra slot - another argument for reducing the number of planned slots in a year.

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48 minutes ago, Enzo Matrix said:

Should we have a reserved slot each year for a Classic GB?  This would certainly have a wide appeal.   Recently we have had GBs devoted to Airfix, Matchbox and Obsolete Kits.  They have all been wildly popular.  This year's Heller GB is heading in the same direction.

Im sorry I keep quoting you Enzo but as I read I see stuff to comment on. 
 

These should have an Automatic run in my opinion due to the popularity these seem to generate. So every five-six years they would repeat. Airfix, Matchbox, Frog, Heller, Revellogram, and the proposed Esci-Italeri one. 
 

KUTA and Blitz automatic also. 
 

Keep the standard nine slots but lock three away for KUTA, Classic, and Special categories such as Desert storm, Battle of Britain, or D-Day ?

32 minutes ago, trickyrich said:
  • Have 7 each of GBs and STGBs
  • Rockin' All Over The World - Status Quo?  :doh:  you really are showing your age!
  • Two years between nominations - help keep everything fresh
  • Move the STGBs in line with GBs.  There will be an STGB bunfight for 2022, However, the currently nominated STGBs will stand. - would be awesome, more bloodshed!
  • All GBs which are within ten *** open for discussion *** votes of the cutoff get a bye - Though I reckon only the top 2 losers
  • 75% of the available slots - would make your votes more important, currently we average only 7 votes from the 9 available to us so wasting 2 votes
  • 1 Special GB /year

Glad someone explained the Rockin thing to me ?  The Two years between proposals is fine by me, it would cut down on duplicates ? Not sure Im 100% on board with moving STGB’s in to a voting stage ? Maybe increasing the numbers needed ? Though im right on the fence maybe Rich could convince me better ? 
 

Of the available six-seven slots maybe only 5 votes like Rich says more important. 

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
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27 minutes ago, trickyrich said:
  • Rockin' All Over The World   Status Quo?  :doh:  you really are showing your age!
  •  

 

You don't know the half of it.  I remember John Fogerty's original!  

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Some interesting ideas here, looks like the GB area is in for an overhaul!

I agree with reducing the numbers of both GB's and STGB's as we are getting to the point of over saturation with members simply unable to build for the various GB's and STGB's  they have signed up for due to the overlap.

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I think that there should be a fixed number of GBs each year, with some topics predetermined and other open to the bunfight.

 

Proposal 8 GBs per year.

 

1 GB at the discretion of the mod (i.e. fir significat historical events, like anniversaries of wars.

 

In the bunfight

1 GB reserved for ground stuff

1 GB reserved for ships

1 GB reserved for airplanes

 

4 GBs in the open category (anything goes)

 

The BlitzBuilds stay as they are.

 

the KUTA becomes either a yearlong event (much like 'They also serve' right now) or gets allocated a special slot at a time where no other (ST)GBs are taking place as I feel it is kind of hard ro focus in the KUTA with other builds going on.

 

The annual voting: a one year cooldown period for repeating subjects. Proposals are valid for one year only.

 

STGBs - scrap the slots. Anyone can propose a STGB, and provided he finds an agreed upon number of participants, start it a month later.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Glad so eone explained the Rockin thing to me ?  The Two years between proposals is fine by me, it would cut down on duplicates ? Not sure Im 100% on board with moving STGB’s in to a voting stage ? Maybe increasing the numbers needed ? Though im right on the fence maybe Rich could convince me better ? 

 

Maybe we should go whole hog with the STGB's and make the process the same as GB's. You propose a STGB, get the required interest them go to the poll, I would drop this number.  This would allow some more interesting types to come up.  Same idea with repeats only you need to wait for 2 years before a repeat, this should make it a bit easier for other ideas to get up. Maybe also ensure one slot minimum is for non-aircraft builds.

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