Vesa Jussila Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 My projects have been on hold for some time. Most of my hobby stuff is wrong side of the border and currently traveling is bit a problem. So I have supported my local hobby shop and purchase some basic things to continue modelling in second home. First project is Dornier Do-X in Otaki boxing. Same molds are use for Revell and Matchbox boxing's. Basically plastic looks good, better what I have seen in Revell box. Some basic information can be found from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_X Only 3 planes were ever constructed and first plane was use after Dornier by Luft Hansa, but saw very little usage and was damaged in heavy landing. Two other planes went to Italy and were known X2 and X3, usage was there also limited. In the beginning plane was using 12 Siemens Jupiter that produced 525 HP, these were notice under powered and were replaced 12 Curtiss Conqueror 640 HP versions. Even with new engines plane was not a rocket. Italian versions use Fiat engines. I have only limited amount of reference material so mostly I need to trust internet sources. So here we have typical starting photos: Box itself, that have some water damage, Instruction sheet: Hull: Wings: Small parts: Engines: Clear parts: Decals that have suffered damage, but I think I can use these as a template: There was even glue included. I don't plan to use this Thanks for watching. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 If you are searching for references you may use wonderful 3D model by Toshihiko Shimizu: http://one-man-model.main.jp/instruction/Dornier Do-X 20180819.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Very interesting! This is a subject that is very dear to me, although I build exclusively in 1/72. I resisted buying the Amodel 1/72 kit, as it has minor issues and includes fiberglass for the large parts, a material I don't like to work with (I had to in the past). The model kindly referenced by Pin just above is (to me, personal opinion) below par, as the 3D printing renders a compromised surface and many volumes are "pixelated". Either the technology or the printing definition is not quite there yet and makes it for me (again, just an opinion) ineligible. I also have a 1/72 vac kit of from Combat Models, that seats most definitely at the very bottom of the available options Depending on how far you would like to go, there is much to read and learn, and the usual controversies about colors that make modeling so exciting! 😆 There is a wealth of information on the Net, really, tons of material, more than you would ever need, if you are willing to spend the time. I would say do not use second hand sources, but center on first hand references: photos and contemporary accounts. There are even newsreels of it on the Net. Or you may like to keep it simple, and just have a relaxed and smooth build, which is absolutely fine too. As usual, this is the modeler's choice. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share Posted November 15, 2020 @Moa Thanks for your comments. Let see what level I will go in this build. The colors were thing I was thinking. Because this is sea plane, it was definitely painted to protect structure. As you said better trust original sources. And I think I was reading somewhere that registration was black not red. Need to start to do my research. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 27 minutes ago, Vesa Jussila said: registration was black not red That's right, the registration was black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 But the paint under the hull is believed by many to have been red. Some photos certainly can make the case for that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 So some progress today after work. What @Moa mentioned related to red underside color, photo below might suggest to that direction. There is second color in hull and I would say it's not black. But I have also doubts that there might have been other color in hull also because contrast to upper surface color is much bigger. Photo from Bundesarchive 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 There are many images that show this "not black" hull bottom, some with people standing in front of it wearing almost certainly black articles (shoes, caps, etc.) and the bottom in comparison looks much lighter. It's not uncommon to find anti-corrosion red paint on hulls, it's usually a dark red maybe with a hint of brown. Of course, just an opinion. Note how the hull hue is close to the leather hue on the jackets: That was Amodel's choice: And apparently Kleeware's: https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/0/7/1/1164071-26866-78-720.jpg And Revell itself: Not that cards and drawings are trustworthy sources (they are mostly not), but here is one with another Dornier, the SuperWal https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/dornier-superwal-flying-boat-1920s-the-superwal-was-a-german-flying-picture-id1085305200?s=2048x2048 And the DOX https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/dornier-do-x-i-flying-boat-1920s-the-dornier-do-x-produced-by-the-picture-id1085304446?s=2048x2048 It must be noted that some details changed during the life of D1929, the color separation line hull/bottom changed, so did the shape of the water rudder, some gizmos on the engine nacelles, antennas, etc. It would be a good idea to find a few photos that match the kit's rendition of those details, to get them aligned in time. All this is nonetheless a bit academic, and to a point unnecessary, as the model will look like a DOX anyway. If it's fun for the modeler, then it's ok, if it's not fun, then it's ok to leave it in peace. The objective is to be entertained and have fun, not being paranoid with details and add to the stress, we have enough of that already 😉 Enjoy your build! I will seat down and enjoy too now. Cheers 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted November 21, 2020 Author Share Posted November 21, 2020 Some progress here, need to do little bit filling because fit was not perfect. An then I need to redo panel lines. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_W Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 I think Moa is correct. Looking at the aircraft, it is very much a "ship with wings" and bears a striking resemblance to a contemporary Ocean Liner. It is logical to think that when looking to protect the metal they would have considered how shipbuilders do the same same and that would lead to red/brown anti fouling and corrosion protection. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 I'm not sure whether the red oxide that protects iron would do the same job for Aluminium. Which doesn't mean they couldn't be painted red anyway. Later German flying boats, and others, were protected by a coat of lanolin below the waterline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_W Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Friend of mine has a wooden boat. He uses a red/brown anti fouling paint to stop algae build up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 When I was kid I made a paper boat on a rainy day. I also used the same red protecting coat. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michou Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 I do not remember where I found this discussion of Do X colours but it is a summary and translation of pages 92 and 93 of Behr’s book. The colour for German registration markings of the period was black. Very rarely white was used (when the underlying surface colour was dark). Sorry, no fancy colours. The answer to the colour of the lower hull is: it depends. The Do X was repainted several times during its career. I´ll try to make a long story short: 1. Test flights in Altenrhein 1929: all metal parts covered in primer. The primer was a mixture of clear boat lacquer and yellow greenish anticorrosive. Imagine it as a very thin mixture of yellow and cockpit green over natural metal. All fabric covered parts doped in red, varnished in aluminium. 2. Fall 1929 in Altenrhein: Hull above waterline painted silver, Hull below waterline primered in diamond grey and painted silver. This seems to have resulted in a dark grey colour. 3. Spring 1931 in Las Palmas: Hull below waterline painted over in silver. 3. July 1931 in Rio de Janeiro: Hull below waterline: old paint removed and repainted in red anticorrosive paint. 4. Spring 1932 in New York: Hull below waterline painted over with tar paint (presumably black). 5. August 1932 in Travemünde: Hull below waterline repainted with bitumine paint (glossy black). 6. Spring 1933 in Altenrhein: bitumine paint renewed. Wing reskinned as above. All paints that were used deteriorated rather quickly, becoming dull and flaky. The aluminium varnish of the fabric covered parts wore off down to the red dope, so those parts had to be revarnished periodically. (Source: Volker A. Behr, Dornier Do X, ISBN 978-3-613-00329-0). There is one thing I want to add: it appears to me that the sponsons and the wing struts were left unpainted (only primered with that yellow-greenish mixture) until the Do X returned to Altenrhein late in 1932. *** Over the past couple of years there has been much discussion about the colors of the DO X on the 'Wings of Peace' Yahoo group. Agreement is that the Volker A. Behr, Dornier Do X book is nearly correct as to colors. This book contains a short chapter about the colors of the Do X. The author cites a summary written in 1934 by the DO´s flight engineer. Judging from contemporary photos, the group believes that the book's summary is incorrect on two points, which are... 1. The tailplane remained unpainted at least until the engine change from Siemens Jupiters to Curtiss Conquerors in August 1930. 2. The sponsons and the struts leading from the sponsons to the hull and to the wing apparently remained unpainted until the return to Germany in 1932. (which agrees with schulz_hl thoughts above). 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 So some progress here. main components are there. next thing is prepare this for primer. I also started to look engines and clearly radiator part is over size, this is easy to fix. Engine fit to wing also needs careful fitting. An photo of real thing. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Nice! Does the kit provide the oil cooler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 @Moa , yes there are coolers. One thing is that I need to find photo of engines above. There are holes, but I don't know what those are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, Vesa Jussila said: @Moa , yes there are coolers. One thing is that I need to find photo of engines above. There are holes, but I don't know what those are. Yes, there is definitely some detail there. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Looking at photos, it seems that at one point the front water radiators were bigger than the gondola (but associated with different oil coolers, on the side). In other photos they follow the shape of the gondolas. One more thing to scratch one's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnl42 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Ooh! Nice! I've thought long and hard about this, with this very boxing available nearby. But, as my stash building moratorium must have some semblance of reality, I will enjoy this model vicariously! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 For further perusing, amusement and head-scratching: From the the DOX photo archives: red AND gray "underwater" protection paint trials http://scope.staatsarchiv.sg.ch/detail.aspx?ID=386014 Brown AND Bronze: http://scope.staatsarchiv.sg.ch/detail.aspx?ID=386016 And for dry areas, red anti corrosion and silver paint? http://scope.staatsarchiv.sg.ch/detail.aspx?ID=386022 There are more photos of test samples with variations of the colors. Which one they finally went for after a high number of sample corrosion trials? your guess is as good as mine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 This starts to look that I will just build this an then get Amodel kit to make real assault for topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjaweijfopi4j48 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Just now, Vesa Jussila said: This starts to look that I will just build this an then get Amodel kit to make real assault for topic. Brave man! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Moa said: Brave man! I would say, just learning mountain to climb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted November 29, 2020 Author Share Posted November 29, 2020 When I am looking windows in photos and kit. For me it look that Otaki made it wrong, just too small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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