Ki-84 Frank, Hasegawa 1/72 -- Bare metal odyssey!

[Model Mate]

I’d go with oven cleaner - I’ve used it in the past to strip regular paint and I’m fairly sure it’ll do the same to metallics. I was worried it would melt the whole plane, but it didn’t. 
The more you do though, the less likely you are to end up with a nice clean, shiny plastic surface, which is what you really need for any NMF...

[2996 Victor]

Sorry to hear you're still hitting problems with the NMF. I'm afraid I can't  even begin to offer any helpful suggestions - I can only say fingers crossed for a successful outcome 🤞

 

Regards,

 

Mark

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, opus999 said:

I could try the Tamiya thinner and maybe get down to plastic, which would be the best option. I wonder if the Tamiya Lacquer thinner is any different from the big jug of the stuff I got from the hardware store?  Maybe it isn't as strong?

It probably is weaker, either way you opt to go needless to say test it on a small area first and like I said earlier follow it with water as it can soften plastic and glue. Id feel bad if anything I suggest causes more damage or aggravation. The benefit to this versus soaking is you save the cockpit and can control the amount of surface you work on at a time. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[opus999]

2 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

It probably is weaker, either way you opt to go needless to say test it on a small area first and like I said earlier follow it with water as it can soften plastic and glue. Id feel bad if anything I suggest causes more damage or aggravation. The benefit to this versus soaking is you save the cockpit and can control the amount of surface you work on at a time. 

 

I will definitely try it out on a test piece, but I know how hazardous Lacquer thinner can be on plastic!  Found out the hard way.  

[opus999]

I think this is going to be the last post for a little while.  My middle child went to the Hospital last night and I think I will be too distracted for modelling.  He will be fine, but there is some adjustment ahead.

 

I will get the Frank back to the state I can see in my mind!  Watch this space...

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

I hope he is going to recover and things aren't too serious ? Plastic doesn't expire so no worry's on that front. Even if its just to talk  just let us know if you need anything ? 

[Andwil]

Sorry to hear that Opus, best wishes for a full recovery for your child.

 

AW

[Jackson Duvalier]

Oh my.  I don't know what to say but your family will be in my prayers.  

[2996 Victor]

Hoping for the swift recovery of your youngster and sending you and your family all our thoughts and best wishes.

 

Kindest regards,

 

Mark and Jane

[mark.au]

Sorry to read that, some things are far more important than plastic models.  Best wishes.

[opus999]

Thanks everyone.  I reread what I wrote, and noticed that I neglected to mention he was diagnosed with Type I Diabetes.  A rotten thing to happen to a 12 year old and something I've feared for a while because it runs in the family.

 

It was the first time the E.R. called us in the middle of the night to tell us to go there.  His labs from the doctors appointment that afternoon had just come in and they said he needed treatment immediately.  Depending upon how quickly his blood sugar stabilizes, he'll be home between tonight and sunday night.

 

Can 2020 be over now?

[2996 Victor]

Thinking of you all and hoping your son gets all the help and treatment he needs.

 

Stay strong!

 

Kindest regards,

 

Mark and Jane

[alt-92]

39 minutes ago, opus999 said:

His labs from the doctors appointment that afternoon had just come in and they said he needed treatment immediately.  Depending upon how quickly his blood sugar stabilizes, he'll be home between tonight and sunday night.

Somewhat of a silver lining, perhaps (to stick with the theme).
Hopefully, in the coming years those price hikes (scalping/gauging imho) will be covered by insurance sufficiently.

Best wishes in any case.

 

Quote

 

Can 2020 be over now?

We could all do with a break tbh

 

-- 

Wrt: stripping the kit down - did you use Self-leveling thinners with the Mr.Surfacer? Because that stuff sprayed neat: Will. Strip. Everything. Off.

Ask me how I know

 

[opus999]

I spent the whole day at the hospital with the lad and was very proud of his good-natured humor and positive outlook.  He took every opportunity to make the nurses laugh.  I, on the other hand, found myself surprisingly sad.  But he and I had some good-natured ribbing back and forth and I think he's feeling quite normal again.  If he can work up the courage to give himself a shot in the morning he will be home.

 

I am going to bed. I'm am surprisingly exhausted.  Thanks for all the good thoughts!

[The Spadgent]

Hells bells. I haven’t been on BM over the past few days so missed all that was going on. I’m really sorry to hear about your son.😔 It sounds like everything is going as well as can be expected however. You must be exhausted. The Aeroplane can wait, focus your efforts on your well-being and your family. We’ll be here when you feel like hitting the plastic once again. 
 

Johnny.

[dogsbody]

9 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Hells bells. I haven’t been on BM over the past few days so missed all that was going on. I’m really sorry to hear about your son.😔 It sounds like everything is going as well as can be expected however. You must be exhausted. The Aeroplane can wait, focus your efforts on your well-being and your family. We’ll be here when you feel like hitting the plastic once again. 
 

Johnny.

 

 

What Johnny said! 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[opus999]

Hello?  Is anyone in here?  I guess I should turn on some lights and straighten the chairs....

 

Things have finally settled back into a routine.  When someone in the house gets diabetes, it affects everyone to some degree.  Everyone needs to know what to do if the diabetic person is unconcious; meal planning has a new dimension to it; and we've discovered a lot of the problems with our health care system (one example of many off the top of my head: We were wrestling with insurance about covering some equipment - I don't remember what it was - and they wanted some kind of letter from the doctor.  OK... so our doctor contacts them and they won't accept her because she wasn't the "attending physician".  Ok... so we contact the hospital and talk to the doctor that was in charge of our kid's care and he talks to the insurance.  They won't accept him because he's from a hospital. Huh???  I don't remember how it worked out -- my wife dealt with that issue -- but it worked out.  You get to a point where you don't care how it gets fixed as long as it gets fixed).  But you didn't come here to hear me complain... you came here for some modeling!

 

Turns out, I did have some time for modelling... I just didn't want to fuss with trying to fix the Frank.  I really wanted something easy to focus my mind and let other things churn in the back of my mind.  I wanted a kit that was easy to put together, which I already had paint for, that I'd already done the research for, and that had a fairly straightforward paint scheme.  This kit was the only one that met all the criteria.  I realized later that the gesture on the side made this an appropriate 2020 build:

 

 

That's a tease... the RFI is here.

 

But, in recent days I started thinking about the Frank again.  I decided to try the Mr. Levelling thinner to strip paint.  After a promising attempt on some scrap, I tried it on the Frank and was pleased with the results.  The Silver Leaf and the Mr. Surfacer came right off, but it didn't touch the Alclad!  That's alright though. The plastic seemed unaffected; it didn't seem to get sticky, however I didn't leave the thinner on too long.

 

I wanted to just strip the tops of the wings, but where ever I stop with the thinner the edge is nasty looking, so I suspect that I will need to strip the whole thing and start over.  A bummer, but it won't be too hard.

 

 

It will be fun to get back into it!  I can't wait to get this one looking the way I want.  Plus I missed the interaction with you guys!  
 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Happy to hear thing are starting to turn around. The Curtiss looks great and you will figure the Frank out Im sure. 

[Beazer]

I’ve been doing some research into early Franks and I thought the Franks were given Silver paint finishes on the ones that didn’t have the Green.  My plan was to use the Vallejo metallic colours but if you do want to avoid going the BMF route and get an accurate NMF finish With a spray I would definitely suggest Tamiya AS-12 straight out of the spray can.  Decanted if need be.  You can still post shade and change panel colours as you wish and the coat settles nice with a hard finish.

 

Hopefully stripping this doesn’t need to happen.  As a shortcut could you blend in a small layer of primer to eliminate the issue?

[2996 Victor]

Good to hear things are settling down, hope you're all getting into the routines involved and your son is coping with it all.

 

The P-40 looks terrific, and I'm about to head over to the RFI for a gander  

 

Sounds like you're also getting to grips with the Frank again, but I should say that slow and steady is the way forward. Have to say, though, in view of what we said earlier about NMF and my being novice in the technique I'm not going to be trying Alclad any time soon!

 

Take it easy, and stay safe and well!

 

Kind regards,

 

Mark

[opus999]

9 hours ago, Beazer said:

I’ve been doing some research into early Franks and I thought the Franks were given Silver paint finishes on the ones that didn’t have the Green.

Interesting.  The late war and post war pictures I've seen of the Frank are bare metal because I can see the variation in metal between different panels.  The instructions say this is from 1945, so I am following those pictures.  The difference between early war silver paint and late war bare metal makes sense as they either didn't want to or couldn't invest the time and materials to paint the a/c.

 

9 hours ago, Beazer said:

if you do want to avoid going the BMF route and get an accurate NMF finish

I have to confess, I thought BMF and NMF were the same thing?  Can you enlighten me on this?

 

9 hours ago, Beazer said:

Tamiya AS-12

I tried this on my F-84E build because I'd seen some guys do some amazing stuff with AS-12, but I couldn't get it to look right for me.  I decanted it into an airbrush and slightly thinned it with Mr. Levelling thinner.  When I used it, it just looked like silver paint to me.  Maybe I should try it again.

 

9 hours ago, Beazer said:

 As a shortcut could you blend in a small layer of primer to eliminate the issue?

Good idea.  I've actually considered this. I'm still weighing my options. 🤔

 

1 hour ago, 2996 Victor said:

I'm not going to be trying Alclad any time soon!

Well, to be fair, this is a first for me. I've never had any issues with Alclad.  I was thinking back, and I think I know what happened.  The Silver Leaf needs to go on very wet (a little on the thick side) for it to be really reflective.  The Alclad, on the other hand, needs to go on in very thin, misted coats.  The day I did the Alclad was the day my son went to the Doctor and I had a pretty good idea of what the diagnosis could be.  I suspect my mind was elsewhere and I just blasted the Alclad on like it was Silver Leaf.  I mean, how else could the paint get so thick?  I really must've been "out to lunch" and just blasting away with the airbrush.  Sheesh.  I guess there's a reason that the safety folks always remind their employees to not work while distracted!  It's a good thing I wasn't driving a backhoe through the house...  

[Beazer]

By BMF I meant the method which you use the product Bare Metal Foil.

Its a thin adhesive backed layer of aluminum which you apply and burnish onto the model.  If your trying to mimic the real thing then you can add the real stuff!  Looks great but oh so tedious.

 

and yeah I was looking at early war Franks so the nmf makes sense post war.

 

[Jackson Duvalier]

Sometimes the best way to deal with the frustrations of modelling is to just put the thing down and forget about it for a while, then revisit it when you're not so invested in the issue.

 

OTOH, that way lies the Shelf Of Doom.

 

Best to chart a middle course.

 

I'm growing to love Mr. Levelling Thinner, for a lacquer thinner it's so gentle.

[2996 Victor]

It's understandable, and it's really easy to lose a bit of concentration when your mind is preoccupied. And let's face it, you've had some big stuff going on recently.

I'm certain you'll fix it and the end result will be great, but as @Jackson Duvalier says, perhaps just set the Frank aside for a while. How about another Banshee?

KInd regards,

Mark

[opus999]

13 hours ago, Beazer said:

By BMF I meant the method which you use the product Bare Metal Foil.

Its a thin adhesive backed layer of aluminum which you apply and burnish onto the model.  If your trying to mimic the real thing then you can add the real stuff!  Looks great but oh so tedious.

 

and yeah I was looking at early war Franks so the nmf makes sense post war.

 

Oh!  Ha ha ha!  I saw BMF and was thinking "Bare Metal Finish".  I understand now.  Yes, the bare metal foil looks fantastic.  I tried it on a MiG-15 build and got about half the foil on and got bored and put it aside.  It's still on the shelf of doom mocking me.  I should give it a go again, because nothing looks like bare metal than bare metal!  

 

12 hours ago, Jackson Duvalier said:

Sometimes the best way to deal with the frustrations of modelling is to just put the thing down and forget about it for a while, then revisit it when you're not so invested in the issue.

 

OTOH, that way lies the Shelf Of Doom.

 

Best to chart a middle course.

That is true.  It definitely needed some thought so I didn't make it worse. 

 

12 hours ago, Jackson Duvalier said:

I'm growing to love Mr. Levelling Thinner, for a lacquer thinner it's so gentle.

Oh, I love the stuff.  I've been able to use it with lacquers, enamels and acrylics.  And I was so happy with how it allowed me to make a glassy finish on my all-black B-57.  And now I can take some paints off without damaging the plastic?  It's like a magic elixir! Spoiler alert: I stripped the whole thing yesterday afternoon.  It only took about a half hour. Great stuff.

 

8 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

I'm certain you'll fix it

See the spoiler alert above!  Last night I primed it and got the silver leaf back on.  So I'm back where I started, which is a good thing.  I also painted up a paint mule and I'm going to apply the Alclad and the Mr. Color metallic I plan to use to it to make sure I'm calibrated. 

 

8 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

How about another Banshee?

Oooo.... Don't tempt me sir!  Don't tempt me!   I've got that whole sheet of decals.  I've got my eye on "Steamin' Demon", but it is an "M" variant.  The only "M" kit I'm aware of is the Hobby Boss that I used for my other Banshee and it has some serious issues in my book.  I'm hoping that Special Hobby makes an "M" with their new mold (Or maybe I can get a "K" and modify it?).  I do have a Hasegawa "E" that I just got Aleutian Tiger decals for.   Hmm.... 🤔