Ki-84 Frank, Hasegawa 1/72 -- Bare metal odyssey!

[opus999]

My next build is a kit that I've had for only a year or two, and its one I've done before.

 

 

When I started college my parents gave me a bunch of Hasagawa Japanese fighter kits for Christmas.  the Frank, Jack, Zero, George, Tojo and Tony.  I built all but the Tojo and Tony soon after Christmas.  That was about the time when I was getting into weathering and starting to use the airbrush again.  I wasn't using filler yet, but with these Hasagawa kits, the seams were very good, so that was OK.  Even though they aren't up to my current standards, I have never felt the need to replace them.  They look pretty good on the shelf and I'm still proud of what I was able to do with my skills at the time.

 

Except the Frank. 

 

Don't get me wrong... I did a pretty good job on it, but I new nothing about bare metal finishes back then.  So a spray can of silver and zip, zap, painting was done!  Now I look at it on the shelf and think, "imagine how that would look if I used what I know now about NMF!"  Well, imagine no longer... I bought another copy of the kit so I could do just that, and I plan to strip the old one and do the alternate paint scheme in the instructions.

 

Here's the requisite parts tree shot:

 

 

It's a simple kit.

 

So what is my plan? First off, after my successful panel line treatment in my last build, I thought I might try it on this kit, since it has raised panel lines.  But a test last night on the metal paint I plan to use was a complete bust.  Also, scribing the lines is a no-go with my skills.  However, with my F-80C and my Oscar I found that leaving the raised panel lines in NMF tricks the eye into thinking they're engraved.  A bit of a disappointment after my last build, but I hope the NMF will make everyone forget about the panel lines.   Originally, when I got the kit I was going to follow the metal shades on the box artwork since I was having a hard time turning up original photos of the Ki-84.  Since then I have found a few photos--especially of the captured US Ki-84 which was bare metal--and found that the panels in the artwork are accurate.  Lookng at Japanese types in WWII, I don't see them being very polished, so I will go with a base coat of decanted Tamiya TS-30 Silver leaf, which made an excellent base for my Oscar.  The darker panels will probably be Mr. color metal stainless steel and the lighter panels Alclad white aluminum.  These are the same paints I used on the Oscar and they looked great together (before they were covered over with IJA green splotches).

 

I started off this morning with the cockpit.  A simple affair that will likely not be seen.  I looked at my old Frank and the cockpit opening is pretty small and it takes a flashlight to see anything in there.  Still, I will probably dress up the seat a bit and fab up some seatbelts.

 

 

I've taken to building the cockpit before painting if it's a simple enough cockpit (so, I won't be doing this with Eduard spitfires!).  I find it's much easier to glue and much easier to paint too.

 

More later...

 

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, opus999 said:

Also, scribing the lines is a no-go with my skills.  However, with my F-80C and my Oscar I found that leaving the raised panel lines in NMF tricks the eye into thinking they're engraved. 

What I do is use 800-2000+ grit and polish the lines down till they're almost nonexistent. I detest re-scribing whole kits as I find the effort to be tedious and not worth it in the end. You can still see/feel them but they're much lower and finer and this also helps with decals. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Ventsislav Gramatski]

@opus999 having seen what you are doing with the 1/72 Monogram P-51 build, I will be following this one too - really looking forward to see how you do the NMF on the Ki-84!

[opus999]

53 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

What I do is use 800-2000+ grit and polish the lines down till they're almost nonexistent. I detest re-scribing whole kits as I find the effort to be tedious and not worth it in the end. You can still see/feel them but they're much lower and finer and this also helps with decals. 

I was considering this very idea this morning!  Great minds think alike I guess.    Well, since you've had success with it, I will give it a try myself.

[opus999]

9 minutes ago, Ventsislav Gramatski said:

@opus999 having seen what you are doing with the 1/72 Monogram P-51 build, I will be following this one too - really looking forward to see how you do the NMF on the Ki-84!

Thanks! ...and welcome aboard! 

 

It's a simple enough kit that I don't think it will take me a month like the P-51. I think the Oscar only took me something like a week and a half or two weeks.

[2996 Victor]

Looking forward to seeing this one pans out, as I'm quite keen on adding a Ki-84 to my stash.

 

Also, I'm keen to see your NMF technique - it's something I've yet to try and with some Japanese types to build with NMF finishes I shall have to have a go soon.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[HOUSTON]

Looking forward to this. 

 

 

[The Spadgent]

Great looking kit. I’ll tag along too if that’s ok. Is that an ejector pin Mark on the seat? Looking forward to the silver loveliness. 🤩

 

Johnny.

[opus999]

3 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

Looking forward to seeing this one pans out, as I'm quite keen on adding a Ki-84 to my stash.

 

Also, I'm keen to see your NMF technique - it's something I've yet to try and with some Japanese types to build with NMF finishes I shall have to have a go soon.

 

 

Despite the sparse cockpit, the rest of this kit is really nice.  It is one of the nicest fitting kits I've seen in a while (so far anyway).  Glad to have you along!

 

2 hours ago, HOUSTON said:

Looking forward to this. 

Thanks!  Nice to have you along!

 

36 minutes ago, The Spadgent said:

Great looking kit. I’ll tag along too if that’s ok. Is that an ejector pin Mark on the seat? Looking forward to the silver loveliness.

Hey Johnny!  Glad to have you aboard!  Yeah... that's an ejector pin mark on the seat.  I didn't even notice until when I was painting.   I thought about fixing it, but I decided to dry-fit it in the fuselage to see if it was worth the trouble, and it really isn't.  The cockpit opening is pretty small and its hard to see anything... so I gave it a pass.

[opus999]

So I focused on the cockpit, and despite my observation that it will be hard to see much detail... I put quite a bit of effort into it.  Typical of Hasegawa kits of this vintage, the cockpit is pretty sparse and the detail is a bit crude.  The seat was supposed to have holes, but my smallest drill bit is too big (and new ones aren't coming for a few days  ).  Given how hard it will be to see the detail, I employed a cheat and painted the holes with black paint.  I did some paint chipping and dry brushing, but decided not to bother with the wash.  In the end this is how it looked...

 

 

 

 

 

I just realized I still need to fab up some quick seat belts too.  Aren't those rudder pedals comically small?

 

While waiting for paint to dry on the cockpit, I put the wings together.  All the seams were beautifully tight and nearly invisible except for the port side wing which had a slightly less than perfect leading edge seam, but really no worse than some kits I've done.

 

I decided I couldn't wait to try @Corsairfoxfouruncle's recommendation to sand the panel lines down, so while I was working on that leading edge seam I sanded the bottom with 2400 grit sandpaper and polished it up with 8000 grit.  I thought I'd over done it, so of course, I decided to paint that part of the wing to make sure it would be OK.  I primered it with Mr. Surfacer 1500 and then put the NMF on.  This is the 3rd time I've used Tamiya Silver Leaf paint; the first was on my MiG-15--which turned out OK, but not spectacular--and the second was on my Oscar which turned out much better.  The difference between the two builds was that I learned that to get a good finish with silver leaf, you have to thin it with Mr. Levelling thinner and spray it on thick.  This time I did something further -- remembering a trick I used on my B-57 build to get a supper glossy finish -- I sprayed a mist coat of Mr. levelling thinner on the paint as soon as possible.  Doing that actually improved the luster (reflectivity?).  The finish is really what I had been imagining so I am really excited now!  

 

So, here's the tricky part... trying to capture NMF on camera....

 

 

 

 

Pictures still don't do it justice, but I'm happy to report that the panel line sanding worked great and that finish is beautiful.  I guess you'll have to take my word for it.  

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Happy to see it works well for you as well. 

[2996 Victor]

Hi @opus999 and @Corsairfoxfouruncle, great tip on the Tamiya Silver Leaf - the finish is looking very good!

 

Is it a particularly fine-grained silver? A lot of metallics looks quite grainy, and no matter how carefully they're sprayed they still look like paint rather than bare metal.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[opus999]

1 hour ago, 2996 Victor said:

Hi @opus999 and @Corsairfoxfouruncle, great tip on the Tamiya Silver Leaf - the finish is looking very good!

 

Is it a particularly fine-grained silver? A lot of metallics looks quite grainy, and no matter how carefully they're sprayed they still look like paint rather than bare metal.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

Yes it is very fine.  It does seem a lot like real metal, much more so (I think) than Alclad's Aluminum, which just looks like silver paint to me.  I've used Alclad's polished aluminum and it is wonderful stuff for getting an "airshow" type mirror finish.  Their Steel, stainless steel, burnt metal and jet exhaust are all very nice looking and useful.  I also have used AK interactive's Extreme metal Aluminum, Polished aluminum and dark aluminum and found those to be very realistic metal looking with the reflectivity somewhere between Alclad's polished aluminum mirror and this Tamiya Silver leaf's not-very-polished look.

 

The other thing I like about silver leaf and the AK stuff is that it stands up to masking tape fairly well.

 

That's a little rambling... sorry about that... Hope it's useful.

[opus999]

Had a little time between movies tonight so I put the seat belts on.  

 

 

Covers up the holes, but that's OK.  I think it makes the cockpit look a little better.  There really wasn't much there to work with.

 

I also used a pencil on the engine I'd painted black earlier today.  Kind of a neat trick to make it look steel colored.

 

 

Hopefully I will have time tomorrow to get the fuselage together and the wings on!

[2996 Victor]

1 hour ago, opus999 said:

 

Yes it is very fine.  It does seem a lot like real metal, much more so (I think) than Alclad's Aluminum, which just looks like silver paint to me.  I've used Alclad's polished aluminum and it is wonderful stuff for getting an "airshow" type mirror finish.  Their Steel, stainless steel, burnt metal and jet exhaust are all very nice looking and useful.  I also have used AK interactive's Extreme metal Aluminum, Polished aluminum and dark aluminum and found those to be very realistic metal looking with the reflectivity somewhere between Alclad's polished aluminum mirror and this Tamiya Silver leaf's not-very-polished look.

 

The other thing I like about silver leaf and the AK stuff is that it stands up to masking tape fairly well.

 

That's a little rambling... sorry about that... Hope it's useful.

Hi, and many thanks

 

that's all really appreciated, as I mentioned, NMF techniques are unknown territory to me, so that's all great advice, thank you.

 

I've got some Vallejo aluminium colours, "normal", "white" and "dull", and they're quite nice but still very slightly grainy and seemingly a bit sensitive to masking tape, so I'll invest in some Tamiya Silver Leaf and AK colours. I may have missed it, but what primer did you use?

 

The cockpit tub is looking good, as we've said elsewhere, seatbelts much a huge difference! And I'm liking the engine: the pencil technique - normal graphite pencil? - is another great one that I've made a note of for future reference!

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[opus999]

7 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

I've got some Vallejo aluminium colours, "normal", "white" and "dull", and they're quite nice but still very slightly grainy and seemingly a bit sensitive to masking tape, so I'll invest in some Tamiya Silver Leaf and AK colours. I may have missed it, but what primer did you use?

I've never used Vallejo.  IIRC they are acrylic and I avoid acrylics like the plague.  Good to know I'm not missing anything on the metals front from them.  

 

For the Silver leaf: on my Oscar I didn't primer and it still handled masking tape well, for this build so far I've used Mr. Surfacer 1500 which is the best primer I've ever used.  I really wanted to eliminate all the surface imperfections for this one.  I should also note that I've used decanted Tamiya AS-12 "Bare Metal Silver" on my F-84E build, which I'd seen other people do some fantastic stuff with.  At the time I was very happy with it, but looking at it on the shelf over time I'm not quite as satisfied.  Something is a bit off and I can't put my finger on it.

 

So my experience with NMF is that it is easier than it seems.  Obviously all the usual caveats about having a blemish free surface apply.  I got a set of "micro mesh" which are really tough fabric based sandpaper that go all the way down to 12000 grit.  They still work great after 4 years -- one of the best modelling investments I've made.  I used them for more than just NMF. Also, you really should try Alclad's Polished Aluminum.  It is a mirror like finish, however, I've found a more realistic worn look is possible if you dust it with Testors Metallizer sealer (a dull coat might work too).  An example of how polished this Alclad can look is my F-86 Build, and my other F-86 build (which had a much-less-than-perfect surface but still came out nice).  An example of the Polished Aluminum toned down with metallizer sealer is my B-66B build.

 

Going the Alclad route requires a black substrate and that's how I learned how to make a glossy smooth black finish using decanted Tamiya black gloss lacquer and using a mist of Mr. levelling thinner on top. It took some practice with a paint mule to learn how to do it right, but not a lot of it.  My B-57 is an example of the glossy black.  The alclad polished aluminum and airframe aluminum are opaque so you can get different shades by masking certain sections and then pulling the masks off half-way through the paint session.  With a good lacquer base, you can layer the paint on with thin coats and it is just like magic how the black starts turning to "metal".  Really cool stuff.  I use their other shades (steel, stainless, white aluminum, etc.) a lot in my modelling.

 

Going the AK route, my testing showed the black gloss base provided the best finish, but using it on regular primer still looked really good too.  The AK is super easy to use.  Just paint it on with an airbrush.  That's it. I also found it is really easy to touch up.  It seems more resistant to masking tape than Alclad (although Alclad works OK if  you press your tape on your skin and pull off 2-3 times before putting it on the model to get the adhesive less tacky).  The one problem with AK is that it wears off easily with excessive handling -- more so than Alclad and way more so than the Tamiya paints.  But, it is easily touched up.  For a general somewhat used metal, this has become my favorite.  There are a lot of details on using this paint in my build thread for my F-80C if you're interested.

 

The silver leaf I already talked about, but it was an interesting find yesterday that I could mist levelling thinner on the surface to give it a better luster... so I'm clearly still learning about that paint!  Plus it works best if it goes on a bit thick.  Again, some test shots will help you!  The silver leaf I like because it gives a more worn look than the AK but still is reflective.  Like metal.  It seems to be more of a "white" color so it seems to lend itself more to Soviet and Japanese NMF planes, IMHO.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to write a book, but I have done a lot of trial-and-error with NMF and I love to pass on what I've learned to help people get nice NMF faster.

 

8 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

The cockpit tub is looking good

Thanks.  I'm happy with my work, but the lack of detail really makes it look cheesy.  I keep reminding myself that I will not see it again after it goes into the fuselage.  

 

8 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

the pencil technique - normal graphite pencil?

Yep!  I also use a 0.5 mm mechanical pencil to get in the nooks 'n' crannies.  I don't know where I picked that trick up from, but it is super simple and effecitve!   

[2996 Victor]

Hi,

 

Thanks for going into so much detail, it really is appreciated so I hope you won't mind if I add a couple more questions! I haven't followed your links yet, so please forgive me if the answers are in them!

 

Firstly, I'm a bit bothered about handling wear on metallic finishes, so do you lacquer over the top, or would that reduce the effectiveness of the paint? And I understand that surface prep is all, but if you don't primer, how well do these metallic finishes take over putty?

 

I really like the idea of being able to mist on successive coats to build depth of colour and progressively remove masking to create different intensities for different panels.

 

I've read a few instances of fellow BMers having problems with Alclad, so I think I might kick off with AK's products. I've got a paint mule, so I think it might be getting a new look shortly!

 

As far as I understand it, most NMF Japanese aircraft weren't particularly polished so for my projects I'd be happy with a dull finish slightly varied panel by panel!

 

I definitely need to find some micromesh, I picked up some Tamiya sanding sponges recently although I've not had a chance to use them, but I've heard great things of micromesh!

 

So, I'll be watching your Frank closely - more power to your elbow!

 

The engine technique is brilliant, and I'll definitely be trying that on my current Zero (and Shiden).

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

3 hours ago, opus999 said:

I should also note that I've used decanted Tamiya AS-12 "Bare Metal Silver" on my F-84E build, which I'd seen other people do some fantastic stuff with.  At the time I was very happy with it, but looking at it on the shelf over time I'm not quite as satisfied.  Something is a bit off and I can't put my finger on it.

Ive used AS-12 many times in the past, it has the perfect tone to my old Mk.1’s 👀 for Aluminum lacquer on USAF aircraft of the late 1950’s and early 1960’s. The problem is its a bit monotone so no panel variation like on a NMF aircraft. 

[opus999]

1 hour ago, 2996 Victor said:

I hope you won't mind if I add a couple more questions!

Not at all, I'm happy to "pay forward" all the great help I've gotten here.

 

1 hour ago, 2996 Victor said:

Firstly, I'm a bit bothered about handling wear on metallic finishes, so do you lacquer over the top, or would that reduce the effectiveness of the paint? And I understand that surface prep is all, but if you don't primer, how well do these metallic finishes take over putty?

Do you mean wear as it "simulating wear"? If so, I use water colors on the metallic finishes as I've discovered that they react badly to any sort of solvent (especially Alclad).  If you mean "preventing wear from normal handling", then that takes a little explaining.  My experience shows that when you talk about sealing in a NMF there are two kinds of finishes:  The mirror finish (e.g., Alclad's polished aluminum, airframe aluminum and stainless steel) and everything else. 

 

For the mirror finish I hand brush Alclad's Aqua Gloss on the surface.  The two F-86's I link to above use this technique.  Aqua gloss is great stuff -- I use it for all my glossy finishes.  It goes on best with a hand brush and levels out wonderfully leaving no brush marks.  you just need to be careful to avoid runs.  Aqua gloss however, looks terrible on the "everything else" NMF (e.g., AK, Silver Leaf, etc.).  Aqua gloss also looks terrible if I try to airbrush it on.  I've heard others are able to do this, but not me.

 

For the "everything else" finish I use Testor's metallizer sealer.  I don't know what this stuff is, it may actually just be a straight-up clear lacquer, I don't know.  But when sprayed on a non-mirrored finish, I find that it practically does not change the finish.  It does a little bit, but in my experience it is mostly imperceptible.  I have used it to good effect (as mentioned earlier) to dull down the mirror finish to make it look more worn, but I've found that the AK aluminum looks about the same. The metallizer sealer was used on the f-80C, F-84E and B-66B linked to above, as well as my Mig-15, and the engine area of my F-4. 

 

Plus both these methods work well over decals.  I've been lucky painting the aqua gloss over oil stains and such, but your mileage may vary. 

 

I can't really answer the putty question.  I use CA as a filler.  The times I've used putty, I've gone over it with CA to eliminate the porous look it has, but I never used it on an NMF that I can recall.

1 hour ago, 2996 Victor said:

I really like the idea of being able to mist on successive coats to build depth of colour and progressively remove masking to create different intensities for different panels.

Misting the coats of different colors seems to work with all the metal paints I've used, but the progressively removing masking only works with the opaque Alclads (polished aluminum, airframe aluminum and stainless steel.  There might be a couple others.  Basically any Alclad that requires a gloss black base).

 

1 hour ago, 2996 Victor said:

I've read a few instances of fellow BMers having problems with Alclad

I have too.  Frankly I don't know why because I've never had a problem at all.  Maybe I'm lucky.

 

If you're interested, have a look at the links I provided.  Those are all RFI's, but they have the links to my WIPs, where I usually go into detail about what I did.  I've done a ton of experimenting trying to emulate wear.  A lot of it didn't pan out, but it's all documented.  

 

I realized I was probably giving mixed messages before when I said that NMF wasn't hard, but then later said I did a lot of trial and error.   To clarify, I never found the NMF to be hard in and of itself.  The trial and error was learning how to lay down a glossy surface properly (for the Alclads), how to get the plastic blemish free and mostly the trial and error was experimenting with things like how to make it look worn, mixing colors, trying different panel shades... stuff like that.

 

This might help -- I was devising a test to see why my decals turned black on a model. This post shows the steps I take to paint polished Aluminum Alcad and also shows the difference between uncoated Alclad and Alclad with Aqua Gloss on top:

 

One last thing, I just remembered another example of mine of Alclad polished aluminum with a hand-brushed aqua gloss over coat:  My CF-104 build.

Edited November 14, 2020 by opus999

[2996 Victor]

Hi again, and thanks again for all the great advice. I'll definitely be looking at the links you've posted as soon as I can, but want to do so with the bigger screen on my laptop - I've been on my phone this evening trying to drown out the "best" of UK Saturday evening television......

 

By handling wear, I meant handling of the model and the danger of leaving fingerprints and the like, but you've more than covered that, thank you.

 

Interesting about the misting on finishes only works with Alclad. A bit of a shame, as I would be keen to try that technique, but I think I'll try the AK products first, and maybe "move up" to Alclad in due course!

 

As I said earlier, I definitely want to get some micromesh, and really careful prep certainly seems to be the absolute bottom line.

 

Speaking of decals, do you apply them straight over the NMF finishes, or use, for instance, a coat of Aqua Gloss first?

 

Thanks again and kindest regards,

 

Mark

[The Spadgent]

5 hours ago, opus999 said:

I've never used Vallejo.  IIRC they are acrylic and I avoid acrylics like the plague.  Good to know I'm not missing anything on the metals front from them.  

Just as a point reference I can highly recommend the Vallejo acrylic metallic range. I know you’re not a fan of acrylics but as a metallic paint I find they work really well. You don’t need to prime black (but it helps) and you can get anything from mirror shine to painted aluminium. The vallejo gloss for metallics works well to keep the lustre too. 
The only problem I found is you can’t Pre shade ( my preferred route ) which is the same with any metallic paint so I post shade with Tamiya smoke. 
here are some examples.

Sorry for the thread hijack but I hate to see an opportunity missed if people do like acrylics like myself you can get some pretty good results.

 

By the way your wings look great as does the office. Nice work. 🤩

 

As you were.

 

Johnny.

[2996 Victor]

8 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Just as a point reference I can highly recommend the Vallejo acrylic metallic range. I know you’re not a fan of acrylics but as a metallic paint I find they work really well. You don’t need to prime black (but it helps) and you can get anything from mirror shine to painted aluminium. The vallejo gloss for metallics works well to keep the lustre too.

 

Hi Johnny,

 

Those are some superb examples! The shading looks really nice, and the variations in tone on the engine are spectacular.

 

Since I've returned to the modelling scene I've preferred acrylics, and to be fair I've so far had a good experience with Vallejo's Model Air range.

 

So from my perspective, as far as their metallics are concerned, I guess it's probably just lack of practice. I know my airbrush is a bit long in the tooth as well, so with Christmas approaching I'm dropping "I could really do with a new airbrush and compressor" hints!

 

Kind regards,

 

Mark

[opus999]

19 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

 

Interesting about the misting on finishes only works with Alclad

Well, you can mist on different "colors" of metal paint to change the look (color), but using tape to allow fewer coats on certain panels which makes them darker than the surrounding panels (because there are fewer layers of that color on the masked panel) only works with some Alclads because they are translucent.  It's hard to explain.  My Pakistani F-86 is the build where I used that technique... maybe I explain it better there.

 

19 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

I think I'll try the AK products first, and maybe "move up" to Alclad in due course!

I think that's a terrific Idea!  I started with Alclad only because I didn't know any better.  If I had it to do over, I would probably start with the AK because it is easier to use, both from a surface prep standpoint and a durability standpoint.

 

18 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Sorry for the thread hijack but I hate to see an opportunity missed if people do like acrylics like myself you can get some pretty good results.

The Hijack is fine!  I like being challenged because it gives me an opportunity to expand my "toolbox".  Your examples are beautiful and it really does make me think I should give those a go.  In fact Vallejo is one of two paint lines (the other is Tamiya) that I can get in my town (and within a 200 mile radius).  As far as my feelings about acrylics -- My first two builds after returning to the hobby were made with Testors Acryl acrylics.  I loved the idea of water wash-up (although now I have a great cleaning system, so that is irrelevant).  But on both of those builds I struggled with keeping the paint on the aircraft.  That is, If I did any masking of any sort, the paint would peel off in sheets.  I was so aggravated that at one point I almost walked away from the hobby again.  But, maybe it was the Testors paint?  I see so many people rave about how great Tamiya and Vallejo are, that maybe I picked the wrong acrylic?  The other possibility is that I used Testors "Acrylic primer", which I took to mean "Primer-for-acrylics", but I think now meant "Acrylic-based-primer", which is a total joke and would explain the troubles I was having.  Anyway, I even started a thread once on this very topic because I am certain that I am missing something, because thousands of modelers can't be wrong!   https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235051046-what-am-i-not-getting-about-acrylic-paint/

 

 

I have to say that the examples you provided really intrigue me because they are that elusive worn look that I haven't been able to achieve yet.  Much better the Alclad's Aluminum, which to me just looks like silver paint.  So, maybe I'll give it a go.  Do you know off-hand which colors those are?

 

19 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

By the way your wings look great as does the office. Nice work.

Thanks!  I'm happy with my work on the cockpit, but old Hasegawa kits' cockpit details are, well... not that satisfying.  

[The Spadgent]

4 hours ago, opus999 said:

I even started a thread once on this very topic because I am certain that I am missing something, because thousands of modelers can't be wrong!

I had a look a the thread but I don’t want to get onto a “this is better that that” conversation as I’m sure it’s pointless. We will use whatever works for us and that’s that I guess. As for your adhesion trouble. I only rarely have such trouble.  I mainly use Tamiya acrylics with Tamiya flow improver XF-21 I think (it’s x20a) and (Always) prime with Tamiya rattle can.  I don’t work for Tamiya by the way. 🤣

Before I put masking tape on I always de-tac by sticking it to my hand first, allowing it to have slightly less adhesion and less likely to lift paint.  Just what I do. You find what works for you. 😇 seems to be going well so far. 👏👏👏

 

4 hours ago, opus999 said:

.  Do you know off-hand which colors those are?

This is the range.

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/category/hobby/metal-color-en/
and the ones I use the most are dull aluminum and duraluminium.

 

hope that helps. 
 

Johnny

[opus999]

3 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

As for your adhesion trouble. I only rarely have such trouble.

Well, that's good to hear... I suspect the Testors stuff I was using.  I almost never hear of anyone using Testors Acryl and maybe that's why!  In fact, I'm not sure its even made any more!

 

3 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Tamiya flow improver XF-21

I was going to ask about this.  In my brief flirtation with acrylics, I found that the paint coats looked better and the paint performed better when I used Vallejo's flow retardant (which might be the same idea as flow improver). @2996 Victor, you might try Vallejo's flow retardant with the Vallejo metal paint... it makes the paint not dry as quickly which allows it to level out.  It could be that with your Vallejo metal experience, maybe the paint dried before it achieved a smooth surface.  I also think that the longer the paint takes to dry, the more luster it has (my guess is the metal flakes have more time to orient them selves and "plate out").  All this is speculative, off the top of my head, but it might be worth a try.

 

3 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

I don’t work for Tamiya by the way.

 

3 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Before I put masking tape on I always de-tac by sticking it to my hand first, allowing it to have slightly less adhesion and less likely to lift paint.

yeah, this is a great technique.

 

3 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

dull aluminum and duraluminium

Nice!  I'm going to give those a try!  Thanks!